lister sr2 not revving

[Spoonman]

My narrow boat suddenly lost drive power yesterday. Engine is sr2

 

The engine starts fine but will not rev even when in neutral. When in gear there  is some power going to the propeller when the lever is all the way up but the boat moves very very slowly and again will not rev up or rev in reverse.

 

Been advised to open the weed hatch to check the propeller and it's clear. Also checked gear box oil and it is not low.

 

Other people have mentioned it may be the taperlock between gear box and prop ?

 

The prop shaft spins slowly when in neutral ( always has done) but I'm finding conflicting info on whether this is a good thing or not.

 

Any ideas? In a bit of a pickle as we are in  Liverpool dock and booked to leave on Saturday. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

Broken throttle cable or cable outer loose in one of its clamps. Trunnion in single lever control broken.

 

Look around the engine while someone operates the throttle and see if the lever on the engine is moving.

 

Sounds like an LH150 gearbox. The slow  spinning shaft is  not that unusual, its oil drag.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[Tracy D'arth]

5 minutes ago, Spoonman said:

My narrow boat suddenly lost drive power yesterday. Engine is sr2

 

The engine starts fine but will not rev even when in neutral. When in gear there  is some power going to the propeller when the lever is all the way up but the boat moves very very slowly and again will not rev up or rev in reverse.

 

Been advised to open the weed hatch to check the propeller and it's clear. Also checked gear box oil and it is not low.

 

Other people have mentioned it may be the taperlock between gear box and prop ?

 

The prop shaft spins slowly when in neutral ( always has done) but I'm finding conflicting info on whether this is a good thing or not.

 

Any ideas? In a bit of a pickle as we are in  Liverpool dock and booked to leave on Saturday. 

 

 

 

 

 

Have checked that the linkage on the engine connected to the "throttle" lever is actually moving fully when you move the lever?

Is the engine distressed when you try to rev it, black smoke, odd noise etc?

[Arthur Marshall]

Does the engine speed up when you move the lever, but the prop doesn't?

Could be the flexible coupling gone if one side is turning and the other isn't.

When that happened on my SR2  it turned the prop but even a couple of leaves on the prop would stop it. Had to have the gearbox out and rebuilt. If you're in rcr they contribute!

There's a Lister expert who covers Liverpool in Eric Watson. PM me if you want his number. The guy at Bronte Boats is also good. Karl Illand knows them too.

 

[StephenA]

31 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Does the engine speed up when you move the lever, but the prop doesn't?

Could be the flexible coupling gone if one side is turning and the other isn't.

When that happened on my SR2  it turned the prop but even a couple of leaves on the prop would stop it. Had to have the gearbox out and rebuilt. If you're in rcr they contribute!

There's a Lister expert who covers Liverpool in Eric Watson. PM me if you want his number. The guy at Bronte Boats is also good. Karl Illand knows them too.

 

 

 

Quote

The engine starts fine but will not rev even when in neutral

 

 

[Spoonman]

56 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Broken throttle cable or cable outer loose in one of its clamps. Trunnion in single lever control broken.

 

Look around the engine while someone operates the throttle and see if the lever on the engine is moving.

 

Sounds like an LH150 gearbox. The slow  spinning shaft is  not that unusual, its oil drag.

Yes it is a lh150 gear box.

Sorry just to confirm i have the right component please find attached two pictures one with the throttle fully up and one in reverse.

 

So yes i believe the throttle cable is moving back and forth as normal

 

57 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Have checked that the linkage on the engine connected to the "throttle" lever is actually moving fully when you move the lever?

Is the engine distressed when you try to rev it, black smoke, odd noise etc?

The engine is running fine, sounds as it usually does when running in neutral but the throttle has no effect.

[Tony Brooks]

That looks like the gear box selector lever to me, there is another one on the side of the engine. I think towards the back and on the starboard side a bit over halfway down. That one is the engine throttle control.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

That looks like the gear box selector lever to me, there is another one on the side of the engine. I think towards the back and on the starboard side a bit over halfway down. That one is the engine throttle control.

And if you have a manual engine stop control there will be another cable connected to a lever on the engine.

Assuming you have a Morse type single lever control, pull the button out so that the gear will not engage, then move the lever back and forth, and if all is well with the cable you will see the throttle lever on the engine moving.

[Arthur Marshall]

At the engine end  the cable goes through a pivot and is held on  if I recall  by a cylendrical nut. This has been know to come unscrewed and fall off, in which case the cable will just go forward and back without moving the lever.

The throttle cable can also snap inside the sleeve where you can't see it.

Can you move the throttle lever and see if anything happens? If you haven't got a manual showing the bits I've got a pdf version you can have.

I'm pretty surse the arrow is the end of the throttle linkage on mine.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Arthur Marshall

[Spoonman]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

At the engine end  the cable goes through a pivot and is held on  if I recall  by a cylendrical nut. This has been know to come unscrewed and fall off, in which case the cable will just go forward and back without moving the lever.

The throttle cable can also snap inside the sleeve where you can't see it.

Can you move the throttle lever and see if anything happens? If you haven't got a manual showing the bits I've got a pdf version you can have.

I'm pretty surse the arrow is the end of the throttle linkage on mine.

 

Hi thanks for the reference picture!

 

Please see the attached picture , this is located in a very similar spot to the arrow placed , just to the side of the cam shaft.

 

It seems to be attached to what i would describe as a small metal plate and then that is connected to a flexible cable which I'm assuming is the throttle cable going up to the throttle lever?

 

There is a rubber washer that you can see on the image that is deteriorated and loose on this shaft.

 

If this is the case,  this component is definitely not moving when the throttle lever is moved up and down.

 

I do actually have the original Lister maintenance manual and parts manual, what would these parts be listed as specifically?

 

 

Cheers

 

[Tony Brooks]

Thanks, Arthur, for putting me right.

 

7 hours ago, Spoonman said:

 

Hi thanks for the reference picture!

 

Please see the attached picture , this is located in a very similar spot to the arrow placed , just to the side of the cam shaft.

 

It seems to be attached to what i would describe as a small metal plate and then that is connected to a flexible cable which I'm assuming is the throttle cable going up to the throttle lever?

 

There is a rubber washer that you can see on the image that is deteriorated and loose on this shaft.

 

If this is the case,  this component is definitely not moving when the throttle lever is moved up and down.

 

I do actually have the original Lister maintenance manual and parts manual, what would these parts be listed as specifically?

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

The rubber sleeve is nothing to worry about, they all do that in time.

 

If the part in the photo is not moving, then it's one of:

 

the cable inner has snapped

one of the clamps holding the outer has come loose or fallen off

the trunnion inside the single lever control has snapped

the single lever control has broken or fallen apart.

 

None are Lister parts. The cable is probably called a 33C plus length.  All should be available from all good chandlers and boatyards.

 

[bizzard]

Incidentally. the screw on top of the gearbox selector lever housing is an oiler, to oil the hydraulic control valve reel, a drop of engine oil is best for it. 

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, bizzard said:

Incidentally. the screw on top of the gearbox selector lever housing is an oiler, to oil the hydraulic control valve reel, a drop of engine oil is best for it. 

Something else I never knew.

 

[Arthur Marshall]

If the engine revs when you manually move that lever, then you can heave a sigh of relief that both your engine and gearbox are fine and it's just the cable.

If you've not done this before, when you dismantle the control lever end (the bit you use to change gear) take a photo of where all the cable ends go before you strip out the old cable as there are several options, and not all of them are right.

If desperate, try begging one off another boater - most of us carry a couple of spares as they usually go at the most embarrassing moments.

ETA try to get a cable the same length, but it doesn't seem to matter if it's too long, when mine snapped the only one the yard had was about a foot longer and it's been fine for five years...

Edited August 6, 2021 by Arthur Marshall

[Spoonman]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Thanks, Arthur, for putting me right.

 

 

 

The rubber sleeve is nothing to worry about, they all do that in time.

 

If the part in the photo is not moving, then it's one of:

 

the cable inner has snapped

one of the clamps holding the outer has come loose or fallen off

the trunnion inside the single lever control has snapped

the single lever control has broken or fallen apart.

 

None are Lister parts. The cable is probably called a 33C plus length.  All should be available from all good chandlers and boatyards.

 

There are two grey cables coming down from the single lever control in to the engine bay - I'm assuming one is for the gear box lever (which is working) the other for the throttle lever.

 

If it was the control lever being broken  wouldn't this effect both the gear and throttle lever.

 

Looking inside the control box i believe the throttle cable is still connected to the lever as it will expand and retract when moving from neutral position either up or in to reverse (please see images) so not an issue with the trunnion?

 

At the other end in the engine bay the cable goes through a clamp that is on a small metal plate and two screws either side hold it in place - both of these are tight and the cable doesn't feel lose . 

 

Therefore is it looking more likely that the cable is broken inside?

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

Agreed, broken cable.

 

Now we know what type of control you have, I can say that if the bolt with the large washer holding the throttle (or gear) lever onto its shaft came loose, the lever would fall off. Hence, broken control. I can also say the trunnion has not worn through (the brass bit on the end of the cable) but while you are inside the control pop both trunnions out of their levers and check for wear. They eventually snap, so it's better to replace when they show excess wear. Make sure you grease the wee when putting back together.

[Spoonman]

2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

If the engine revs when you manually move that lever, then you can heave a sigh of relief that both your engine and gearbox are fine and it's just the cable.

If you've not done this before, when you dismantle the control lever end (the bit you use to change gear) take a photo of where all the cable ends go before you strip out the old cable as there are several options, and not all of them are right.

If desperate, try begging one off another boater - most of us carry a couple of spares as they usually go at the most embarrassing moments.

ETA try to get a cable the same length, but it doesn't seem to matter if it's too long, when mine snapped the only one the yard had was about a foot longer and it's been fine for five years..

 I will test this with fingers crossed. Would i need to remove the throttle cable from the throttle lever pictured first before trying to manually move it by hand because it does not move at all right now

[Spoonman]

Also see the attached picture of the clamp that the throttle cable goes through. Does this look ok ?

 

This is about 1ft from the throttle lever in the engine

Are there any other places that the cable may be clamped and could have come loose?

[Tony Brooks]

14 minutes ago, Spoonman said:

 I will test this with fingers crossed. Would i need to remove the throttle cable from the throttle lever pictured first before trying to manually move it by hand because it does not move at all right now

 

Not if you set the control to maximum speed  but you will have to remove the cable to fit a new cable so you may as well remove it in case the cable has jammed for some reason.

1 minute ago, Spoonman said:

Also see the attached picture of the clamp that the throttle cable goes through. Does this look ok ?

 

This is about 1ft from the throttle lever in the engine

Are there any other places that the cable may be clamped and could have come loose?

 

 

No, it looks fine. The only other outer calm should be inside the control. The cables should not be tightly clipped anywhere else, they need to move and flex a little as they are used.

[Tony Brooks]

When you come to fit the new cable to the control end, set the control to slow ahead or slow astern and the screw the trunnion up or down the thread so you can just drop the trunnion into its hole (make sure you note which hole it is).

 

If you fit the cable in the neutral position, you are very likely to end up with the engine revving before the gear engages.

[Spoonman]

31 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Not if you set the control to maximum speed  but you will have to remove the cable to fit a new cable so you may as well remove it in case the cable has jammed for some reason.

 

3 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

If the engine revs when you manually move that lever, then you can heave a sigh of relief that both your engine and gearbox are fine and it's just the cable.

 

 

 

Thanks for clarifying this ,i was trying to push the throttle lever when in neutral, but when control was at max speed or max reverse  it did move and did indeed rev the engine! So disaster averted.

 

I'll have a look about for one of the morse 33c throttle cables at some chandlerys then .i think 5 -6ft would suffice but I'll take the broken one just to be sure.

 

Is it likely i'd be able to find one at a normal garage as they are "universal" not necessarily just marine applications?

 

Thanks again for everyone's help trouble shooting this! Always the same faces that give help when i post on here about the sr2 do really appreciate it. Will give an update if (and probably when😁 )i have trouble fitting the new one

 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

There's a chandleery in Liverpool at Bluepoint Marine The Boatyard, South Ferry Quay, Liverpool L3 4EE 0151 708 2857 and one in Bootle ay 105 Rimrose Rd, Liverpool, Bootle L20 4HN according to Google. The first might not be too far away.

[Spoonman]

Managed to get the old cable off and  its 8ft , stamped on it it says T 8ft A8.

 

 

At the chandlery in bootle they have a 9ft one on their website as teleflex 33c type c8 control cable 

 

Would this be suitable given that one says C8 instead of A8?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

9 minutes ago, Spoonman said:

Managed to get the old cable off and  its 8ft , stamped on it it says T 8ft A8.

 

 

At the chandlery in bootle they have a 9ft one on their website as teleflex 33c type c8 control cable 

 

Would this be suitable given that one says C8 instead of A8?

 

I have not worked with cables for over 10 years but as far as I know 33C defines the cable, thicker ones are 45C or some such. So as far as I know that cable will be fine type wise.

 

The extra foot may or may not be a problem. If you can lose the foot in a large gentle bend then it should be fine, but if you have to use tight bends or even an S shape of bends then it is likely to be stiff to operate and make it more likely to snap eventually.

 

IMPORTANT NOTE: I have no idea about what A8 and C8 signifies, can't the supplier tell you? I hope someone currently working in the field will explain.

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

Take it and all the end fittings with you, they can then match it for you.

I think the C and A codes relate to the ends but bits are interchangeable.