Torsion bar

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, Scooter36 said:

The mechanic thought lumpyness, was a faulty pump, so got a new one. So can't be that. There was plenty of fuel coming out of pipes, when my mechanic turned over engine, so, maybe glow plugs?

And is it coming out of the injectors or the connection to them?

[Tracy D'arth]

5 minutes ago, Scooter36 said:

The mechanic thought lumpyness, was a faulty pump, so got a new one. So can't be that. There was plenty of fuel coming out of pipes, when my mechanic turned over engine, so, maybe glow plugs?

You are guessing instead of finding out the reason.

 

Glow plugs only preheat the combustion chambers to ease starting. In the present temperatures a fit engine will start without them.

 

Define "lumpiness " please. Was it running on all 4 cylinders? Was the exhaust clean- white- black or other? Like blue?

Would it tick over and rev up on demand?  Did it overheat? Was it losing water or oil?

Edited July 5, 2021 by Tracy D'arth

[Scooter36]

Machanic undid pipes to injection pumps, to test flow.

3 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

You are guessing instead of finding out the reason.

 

Glow plugs only preheat the combustion chambers to ease starting. In the present temperatures a fit engine will start without them.

 

Define "lumpiness " please. Was it running on all 4 cylinders? Was the exhaust clean- white- black or other? Like blue?

Would it tick over and rev up on demand?  Did it overheat? Was it losing water or oil?

I did not have the boat, when this was happening, last owners mechanic told me, but he is not to be trusted. 

Ben, from Uxbridge,  if anyone knows him.

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, Scooter36 said:

Machanic undid pipes to injection pumps, to test flow.

There is only one injection pump, driven by the chain in the front of the engine. Now, there are 4 injectors, one for each cylinder. The pipes to undo are the ones connected to the injectors on the top of the engine.

[Scooter36]

Meant injectors, and yes, the pipes on top of engine 

[Tony Brooks]

Or was the lumpiness sundry revving up without moving the throttle. If so it's a symptom of intermittent fuel starvation on a hydraulic DPA.

 

I understand from others here those engines have a nasty habit of stretching their cam chain, so if the lumpiness was at idle it might be a symptom of a worn out tensioner and a stretched chain. Did your bod do anything to assess the backlash on the timing gear.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[ditchcrawler]

22 minutes ago, Scooter36 said:

 

Ben, from Uxbridge,  if anyone knows him.

How much money does he owe you?

[Scooter36]

Luckily last owner was paying him, was supposed to get boat going, but stopped contact,  so annoying. 

8 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Or was the lumpiness sundry revving up without moving the throttle. If so it's a symptom of intermittent fuel starvation on a hydraulic DPA.

 

I understand from others here those engines have a nasty habit of stretching their cam chain, so if the lumpiness was at idle it might be a symptom of a worn out tensioner and a stretched chain. Did your bod do anything to assess the backlash on the timing gear.

Think ,I will find another mechanic 

[Tony Brooks]

28 minutes ago, Scooter36 said:

Machanic undid pipes to injection pumps, to test flow.

I did not have the boat, when this was happening, last owners mechanic told me, but he is not to be trusted. 

Ben, from Uxbridge,  if anyone knows him.

 

You will only get a spit or drip of fuel from the injector unions. About a pinheads worth per pulse at full throttle and power. It's the low pressure bleed points that might allow you to assess fuel flow.

 

We need an assessment of exhaust smoke colour and how much.  Plenty of fuel from the injector unions, but no start combined with that lumpiness might suggest the timing has slipped. NOTE "might", that does not mean "has".

Edited July 5, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[Scooter36]

Was pissing out of pipes going to injectors when disconnected 

[Tony Brooks]

20 minutes ago, Scooter36 said:

Was pissing out of pipes going to injectors when disconnected 

 

That sounds like a badly worn pump to me because there is no proper connection between the low and high pressure side apart from when the inlet to the pumping chambers is lined up and even then the governor valve tends to reduce the flow. It sounds as if low pressure fuel is passing between shaft and body into the distributor section.

[ditchcrawler]

33 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

How much money does he owe you?

There are many postings about him on facebook.

[Scooter36]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

There are many postings about him on facebook.

Really, seemed like a nice bloke, till he went missing, he is going to cost me money, what have people been saying?

[Tony Brooks]

10 minutes ago, Scooter36 said:

Really, seemed like a nice bloke, till he went missing, he is going to cost me money, what have people been saying?

 

I don't think anyone has said anything definite apart from ensuring the bleeding has been done properly. Everything else is just possibilities that can not be ruled in or out with the present information.

 

A really long shot. If someone has had the pump apart and forgot to replace the governor valve I think fuel would  tend to pee out of the injector pipes but still in pulses when the distributor ports line up. Not too sure on this though.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[Scooter36]

I got the torsion bar at last, and got engine going,  Smoked like hell. Machanic said, engine needs complete rebuild, bugger, said it would cost £4000!

Thanks for all the advice. 

[Tracy D'arth]

Second opinion?    I've reconditioned hundreds.

 

How easy/hard was it to start?

 

Colour of smoke?

 

Have you had a compression test? I would before condemning it.

If the crank is in reasonable state, even a rebore and pistons  + bearing shells + gaskets + head clean and valve grind will not be that expensive.

 

You have had the pump and injectors sorted already?

[StephenA]

49 minutes ago, Scooter36 said:

I got the torsion bar at last, and got engine going,  Smoked like hell. Machanic said, engine needs complete rebuild, bugger, said it would cost £4000!

Thanks for all the advice. 

 

How long did you run it for? 

What colour was the smoke?

What did it smell like?

[Scooter36]

On 10/08/2021 at 17:12, Tracy D'arth said:

Second opinion?    I've reconditioned hundreds.

 

How easy/hard was it to start?

 

Colour of smoke?

 

Have you had a compression test? I would before condemning it.

If the crank is in reasonable state, even a rebore and pistons  + bearing shells + gaskets + head clean and valve grind will not be that expensive.

 

You have had the pump and injectors sorted already?

Took a while to get it started,  smoke was dark, told it was burning oil. 

Thanks

23 hours ago, StephenA said:

 

How long did you run it for? 

What colour was the smoke?

What did it smell like?

Would of kept running, but smoking out marina 

[Tony Brooks]

14 minutes ago, Scooter36 said:

Took a while to get it started,  smoke was dark, told it was burning oil. 

Thanks

Would of kept running, but smoking out marina 

 

Dark smoke could be bluish grey = burning oil or blackish = incomplete combustion/too much fuel for the revs or not enough air.

 

The smell might give a clue as well, that is why you were asked about the smell.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[Ebb Hecht]

On 30/06/2021 at 13:49, Scooter36 said:

Hello, does anyone know where I can get a torsion bar for a 1.8 bmc injection pump?

Can find one any where, engine wont start without it.

Cheers

Hello 
Though it is long ago you posted your question, i happened to come across it in my search for what exactly this torsion bar is good for.
I have just had my injection pump renovated on my THORNYCROFT 108.
Now im looking for the the rotation direction of the Injection pump.
Perhaps you can help me in one or both issues.

Best reg.
Ebbe Hecht-Hansen
Copenhagen - Denmark.
 

On 30/06/2021 at 13:49, Scooter36 said:

Hello, does anyone know where I can get a torsion bar for a 1.8 bmc injection pump?

Can find one any where, engine wont start without it.

Cheers

 

[Tony Brooks]

I think Calcutt Boats who specialise in the BMC 1.5 & 1.8 said it does not need one, and I think it is there to take out any backlash.

 

I suspect you have another problem, like lack of bleeding.

[Tracy D'arth]

2 hours ago, Ebb Hecht said:

Hello 
Though it is long ago you posted your question, i happened to come across it in my search for what exactly this torsion bar is good for.
I have just had my injection pump renovated on my THORNYCROFT 108.
Now im looking for the the rotation direction of the Injection pump.
Perhaps you can help me in one or both issues.

Best reg.
Ebbe Hecht-Hansen
Copenhagen - Denmark.
 

 

The lack of a torsion bar will NOT stop the engine starting, it is not essential but I always fit one as it takes the backlash out of the master splined drive shaft.

If it won't start look elsewhere, bleeding is the first thing to check. The pump has to be bled so that it is full of fuel before bleeding any of the injector pipes.

The pump rotates clockwise as viewed from the front to the engine, same as the crank and cam shaft.

[RLWP]

4 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

 

If it won't start look elsewhere, bleeding is the first thing to check. The pump has to be bled so that it is full of fuel before bleeding any of the injector pipes.

 

 

And to reinforce what everyone else has already said - they are difficult to bleed. Especially if you've not done one of these before

 

The 1.5 is worse...

 

Richard

[David Schweizer]

16 hours ago, RLWP said:

 

And to reinforce what everyone else has already said - they are difficult to bleed. Especially if you've not done one of these before

 

The 1.5 is worse...

 

Richard

 

An interesting oservation. We had a BMC 1.5 in Helvetia, and once, by mistake, I left the fuel tap closed and ran the engine, until it suddenly died. Another boater on our moorings told me that the BMC fuel pump was self priming, and suggested that I opened the fuel tap and wound the engine to bleed it, which I did, not expecting anything to happen, and suddenly the engine burst into life. In the twenty years we had Helvetia, I never bled the fuel pump. Even when I changed the fuel filter, I just wound the engine with a couple of injectors slightly open, and often it started, spurting fuel all over the place!

 

Below is a photo of the pump taken during the engine re-build, which I assume was the standard original equipment ! So question, are some BMC pumps self priming or was I just lucky?

 

 

 

Edited July 11 by David Schweizer

[Tracy D'arth]

If you shut off the fuel, the pump will not be empty because there is no air getting in. If you fit an empty pump, it has to be full before you can bleed off the injectors.