Aux Alternator wiring

[staying afloat]

Hi

Please can someone help on Alternator wiring

I have a canaline 42 and the aux alternator is wired as per the photo

The boat is new to me so I don't know know a lot of the history especially when it comes to the wiring.

I don't think the alternator is original and I cannot see any manufacturers label on it. It has a QR code that scans as ALT811201706W0190000132, but that doesn't tell me much

I can see the B+ is marked and has the big wire connected to the leisure batterie

I cannot see any labels for the other 2 terminals but one has a small black wire linking another terminal to the B+, the other looks like the yellow/black wire has come detached from the terminal nearest it at the top of the photo.

Looking at the wiring diagram it looks like the yellow/black wire goes to the D+ terminal, which I assume is the one nearest the top of the photo.

I did have the battery alarm sounding when I ran the engine after a few seconds, connecting the yellow/black wire to the top terminal seems to have stopped that. It all seems to work and charge correctly and the batteries have 12.8v charge,  but I do wonder what the terminals are and whether it is all correct or not as I don't want to damage the alternator or anything else

 

My questions are:

Does anyone know what is the reason for the black wire linking the 2 terminals?

Does anyone have a similar alternator or any idea as to what model it is? or what is a typical replacement for the canaline 42 aux alternator

 

Any help Greatly apreaciated

 

[Tony Brooks]

Sorry, I have spent half an hour searching Google Images to try to find a match without much success. I suspect it might be a Hitachi alternator but which one I have no idea. If it is then it may well need a live fed plus a warning lamp connection and the cable running from B+ to the smaller stud tends to suggest this is true but I assume the yellow with black trace cable is the warning lamp one and putting it there makes no sense to me - but that is lack of product knowledge.

 

I think you best bets are either @Sir Nibble or @Eeyore. Sir N will probably recognise it and knows all about it while Eeyore seem very good at looking things up.

[Hudds Lad]

might be worth trying to scan the QR code on top of the unit and see where that takes you ?

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, staying afloat said:

It has a QR code that scans as ALT811201706W0190000132, but that doesn't tell me much

 

 

2 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

might be worth trying to scan the QR code on top of the unit and see where that takes you ?

 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Hudds Lad said:

might be worth trying to scan the QR code on top of the unit and see where that takes you ?

He says he has and has quoted the number but my googling got nothing from that, even when I broke it up into groups like the Germans do. I did find a very partial match that suggested it might be Peugeot Citron fitment but I could not get any further.

[Hudds Lad]

that'll teach me to put me readers on first  

 

i'll get me coat...

[Sir Nibble]

It's a valeo alternator originally for Renault. The terminal with the black wire would normally be an ignition feed and the other is for the warning light. Valeo number is A11V179.

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Sir Nibble said:

It's a valeo alternator originally for Renault. The terminal with the black wire would normally be an ignition feed and the other is for the warning light. Valeo number is A11V179.

 

 

Thanks SirN, I suspected that was the configuration but was far from sure enough to post. Better to flag the experts who do know.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

He says he has and has quoted the number but my googling got nothing from that, even when I broke it up into groups like the Germans do. I did find a very partial match that suggested it might be Peugeot Citron fitment but I could not get any further.

 

 

Ditto

 

Google : "computer says No"

[Eeyore]

The small black wire is a bodge to replace the feed from the domestic battery. A common arrangement is to have an ignition controlled relay to switch this feed from the domestic battery. Have a look in the spiral binding for the remains of the original cable, and look behind the control panel to see if there is a relay in there. There are often extra wires alongside the multiway loom plug to accommodate this.

  

Edited March 30, 2021 by Eeyore

[Tracy D'arth]

Is this the feed that is known to discharge the battery if not switched off with the ignition? 

[staying afloat]

Thanks for your help everyone

Thanks Tony for trying on the numbers, I have no idea how that QR code translates to a A11V179 or even if it does but a massive thanks to Sir Nibble for identifying it.

It makes more sense now. I will do some reading up on the alternator and see if I can find a manual

When I get some more time to visit my boat and mop up the bilge properly I expect to find a crimp connector and a nut that would complete the puzzle of the loose wire

I will also check the loom and panel for a relay as suggested by Eeyore.

I haven't had any battery discharge issues with the small black wire in place so it seems to be working, whatever it's intention

Thanks Again

Edited March 30, 2021 by staying afloat

[Tony Brooks]

14 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Is this the feed that is known to discharge the battery if not switched off with the ignition? 

 

I think it may be because I think it's the "sense" feed to the regulator so with the alternator stopped the rotor circuit will still be energised.

 

One good thing is that by using a relay feed from the domestic battery it might make it battery make it battery sensing and hide problems in the charging circuit.

[Sir Nibble]

41 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Ditto

 

Google : "computer says No"

ALT811

 

16 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Is this the feed that is known to discharge the battery if not switched off with the ignition? 

Probably not, but I won't guarantee it! It's probably just a sense wire.

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Sir Nibble said:

ALT811

 

Probably not, but I won't guarantee it! It's probably just a sense wire.

 

There you go, pick and mix. If its a nine diode alternator then I am with SirN, if it's a six diode machine then I stick with what I said.

[Eeyore]

Manual

http://www.canaline-engines.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Canaline-Operators-Handbook-CE-Version-3870T.pdf.pdf

Interesting to see that the aux/domestic alternator is sensed from the start battery, hence the short black wire to sort that.

[Eeyore]

Is there a drain due to the warning lamp driver on some alternators with separate ignition feeds?

[Eeyore]

And an apology to whoever fitted it, the wiring isn't elegant, but at least it addresses the bodge committed by the manufacturer.   

[Sir Nibble]

25 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

There you go, pick and mix. If its a nine diode alternator then I am with SirN, if it's a six diode machine then I stick with what I said.

Six, but the field doesn't energise until the regulator sees a ripple to indicate rotation.

[nicknorman]

35 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

Six, but the field doesn't energise until the regulator sees a ripple to indicate rotation.

Yes this is a bit like my home made regulator for my 9 diode Iskra. The field diodes are now redundant, the regulator chip is always live but until it gets a phase input, the field current is zero and it’s quiescent current is just 60 micro amps, ie about 0.5Ah per year.

[Tony Brooks]

58 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

Six, but the field doesn't energise until the regulator sees a ripple to indicate rotation.

 

Thanks Sir N. So no significant discharge