Jump to content

Featured Posts

Hi, I’m new to the forum but have been a boater for many years.  I’m currently restoring a Dorman-Ricardo 2DSM for installation in an ex. Admiralty 25ft Motor Cutter, a boat for which the makers originally supplied the engine.

 

I obtained a pair of these engines together but it has been many years since they were removed from the boats they powered and a lot of parts have been lost including the ‘dashboard’/instrument panels, and it is this that I’m currently working on.

 

The question I’d like to ask is there anyone on this forum who owns or knows of an engine of this type that is complete with its original panel that I can have a reference picture of? In particular I’d like to see any name or instruction plates the makers fitted to this panel?

 

Many thanks,

Bill

8E1ABF1B-043A-4009-9930-E27B0C273E84.jpeg.1246c15ea11a167cd97b7f4cabce0c4e.jpeg043FE060-071F-45F4-86D4-C005C0F24445.jpeg.aafbd1642a95d9412547bc462dc1469c.jpeg8C36599F-19A0-4143-AD6E-F8BC0F840DE7.jpeg.826445f7bef5c0ed030b8a3a75d1a456.jpeg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Somewhere, I have the Admiralty workshop manual for these, having briefly owned a 2 cyl version in 1985 or 86.  I will have a look for it.

 

N

Link to post
Share on other sites

I fitted one in a 40ft narrowboat in 1978. Someone had dropped in on the quay and broken the alloy cast sump so I got it for £50. I had to fit it at a slight down angle because the sump was too deep to match the prop shaft so I cut out the prop shaft and re welded it at a slight down angle. Nice engine but only about 10Hp. Main problem was starting when very cold. I believe they had an ether injection system originally. They were fitted with a dynamo with a low output not much use for the power requirements of today. I see this one has pulley where the dynamo drive was located. Good luck with it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Mine had heater plugs fitted.  The dashboard had two heater plug resistances ( 2 x 2V plugs and 2 droppers )  as shown onthe attached scans of the dashboard and engine GA from the manual.

 It also contains a GA of the installation in a 25ft Motor cutter   I spent a lot of hours at Dartmouth driving one of those around, by then powered b by an Enfield HO2.  Let m,e know if yo want that.

 

The scans go together in pairs.  DSM1 and 2,  DSM 3 and 4. I have produced tem as JPEGS so you can use a phopto tool to stick them together. A bit of scaling should get you the dashboard size.

 

If I can be of more help, ask.

 

Good Luck.

2DSM1.jpg

2DSM2.jpg

2DSM3.jpg

2DSM4.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you everyone for the helpful comments and also BEngo for the scans from the manual.  I have some photocopies of a manual and parts list but they are not as clear as these, so many thanks! The GA of the 25ft Motor Cutter installation  would be very useful too, please, as It is a 25ft Cutter that I’m restoring- it’s one of the last ones left and being built in 1944 had a 2DSM fitted when originally built. The post-war Cutters had the air cooled Enfield HO2 - I’ve got one of these engines as well, but it’s the version from the 3-in-1 Whaler as it hasn’t got a reduction gear.

 

My Dorman engine is missing its dynamo and a ‘V’ pulley had been fitted but there was no sign of any mounting for a generator or alternator. I’m restoring it to a dynamo as the low output is not a problem in the boat the engine is going into - loads are quite small, starting battery charging and just a few nav lights. The engine is totally enclosed - this dynamo drive shaft is the only external rotating part aside from the propellor shaft output flange!

 

The original glow plugs had long burnt away and I have made some threaded adaptors to take metric glow plugs from a Land Rover engine, connected in parallel they operate directly from 12V and do not need the series  resistors of the originals. Ether 

 

What I would like to find out though is the text on the nameplates and legend plates that were fixed adjacent to the controls.

 

Many thanks again,

Bill

Link to post
Share on other sites

I will scan the installation GA tomorrow.   There is also another view of the dashboard which I will scan but no information on the brass tallies

alas.  It is most likely that the tally captions will be the same as on  the diagrams though.  Wish I could remember things like wot I used to...

 

ISTR I replaced the original Lodge heater plugs with Series Land Rover diesel ones, which fitted the existing holes.  These needed coiled wire droppers ( also from a Series  LR)  on the dash board.  V useful for warming ones hands on a frosty morning.

 

 My manual contains CAV  part numbers for the original starter switch and heater switch etc., should you need these.  The original dynamo was a D45R-19.   Sir Nibble of this parish will know more about that, and its built in regulator,  than I do.

 

I note that your autokleen oil strainer appears to be missing the handle (which you can probably replace with the handle off a bib tap), but do you have the ratchet unit and lever which connect to the dashboard push-pull knob?

 

 Should you not have it already,   the recommended  prop is 16 dia and 11 pitch.

 

Regards

N

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks N.

 

I have sourced some push buttons for heaters and starter of a similar style to the originals having failed to find a match for the part numbers.

 

Despite hunting for over a year I’ve failed to find a CAV D45 dynamo of the correct type so am installing a Lucas C45 enclosed model with a separate cut-out and regulator that I’ll fit to the back of the dashboard. If I eventually find the ‘correct’ dynamo in the future i’ll change it out. I do have another engine of the same type but partially dismantled and may build it up and get it running too.

 

I’ve got lengths of 6mm brass rod to make throttle control link and oil filter indexing rod - the filter has its ratchet and lever in place.

 

Thank you for the note about the prop. The boat came with a 16 x 10 LH that was to suit the Ford 4D engine who’s rusty remains were in her when saved from destruction. I’ll give this prop a try first.

 

In my last post I was going to mention that an Ether injection appeared to be an option.

 

Regards,

Bill

CA617D24-E508-4E72-B65B-F9535AAB7227.jpeg.486ffc3a5ca7012cfe0c7bc7f2007aae.jpeg

Edited by Redwing228
Link to post
Share on other sites

That looks like it will be a nice boat when you are done.  Did it originally have a small cuddy/cabin?  The ones at Dartmouth all did, and that was the quick way to spot the difference from a 3 in 1 whaler when looking for a particular boat.

 

Do you know anything of its service history?

 

 

I can't see any reference to ether/ cold start devices other than heater plugs in the manual, but all the HO2 engines were fitted with Ki-Gass ether equipment- there was device on the engine in which a metal capsule of the stuff was plaaced.  Then you pushed the piercer in and finally worked a little pump which sprayed it into one air intake.  Most of the ether vapour went into the boats so it was definitely a case of 'out pipes' before using.

 

I have scanned the GA, again in two parts attached.

 

N

CutterGA1.jpg

CutterGA2.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi and thanks N for this GA.

 

My Cutter had long lost its cuddy and portable cabin top by the time she was ‘rescued’. Previous owners had built a crude cabin cruiser conversion on top of the original covering board and now this has been stripped away the signs of where the cuddy fitted can be seen but all the mounting hardware for the cabin top has been torn off and only the remains of the fastenings show where they once were.

 

I have no service history although there has been some research done - and is ongoing - by a knowledgeable acquaintance. She’s odd in that she was built for or at Bombay Dockyard in 1944 and carries a boat number of a series that is different to boats ordered and supplied in the UK. We think she was issued to an HM ship being repaired at Bombay towards the end of the war, possibly HMS Protector.

 

The boat is planked in teak and was built to a very high standard. It is this to this quality of materials and construction that she owes her survival since before she was saved she’d suffered years of neglect. Motor Cutters were rather lightly built and most were worked to death as fishing boat conversions after disposal by the MoD. I would like to be able to track down other survivors- if there are any! I know of one restored example at Chatham attached to HMS Cavalier.

 

Here is my blog where the restoration of this and other boats are written up.. http://smallclinkerboat.blogspot.com

 

I hope nobody minds me talking about a sea boat on a forum dedicated to inland narrow boats? It is great to have comments about the elderly machinery from the great pool of knowledge here.

 

Many thanks

Bill

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Redwing228 said:

 

I hope nobody minds me talking about a sea boat on a forum dedicated to inland narrow boats?

 

Not at all! We love to hear about boats, especially those with a bit of history.

 

When I started boating in the 60s there were lots of clinker-built cruisers on the canals, especially the wide canals and rivers. A few were purpose built river cruisers but many were converted ships lifeboats, and I suspect a few cutters like yours too. Sadly hardly any remain, and the steel leisure narrowboat is now almost ubiquitous, but I still keep an eye out for interesting old wooden boats.

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Not at all! We love to hear about boats, especially those with a bit of history.

I remember towing Dave's 'Gertrude' down the Thames in '83 with the 2DSM powered Edale - I wonder what happened to both of them!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you talked to the guys at Sandquay, BRNC Dartmouth?

  The college had a small fleet of motor cutters, including some of the 32ft  kitchen rudder variety, 3 in 1 and motor whalers and a number of picket boats.

The maintenance team were the sort of folks with long memories and that boatyard ability to throw nothing away.

The ships boats folk used to live in Bath, and they were helpful, but I don't know where they went when the Bath establishments closed- probably to somewhere in Abbey Wood.

 

 

N

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Have you talked to the guys at Sandquay, BRNC Dartmouth?

  The college had a small fleet of motor cutters, including some of the 32ft  kitchen rudder variety, 3 in 1 and motor whalers and a number of picket boats.

The maintenance team were the sort of folks with long memories and that boatyard ability to throw nothing away.

The ships boats folk used to live in Bath, and they were helpful, but I don't know where they went when the Bath establishments closed- probably to somewhere in Abbey Wood.

 

 

N

Yes, way to go!

My cousin retired from BRNC Sandquay last year. His father did the same job from 1950ish to 1990's.  Both were/are experts on small marine engines, latterly mostly Perkins I think.

The Enfield engines were phased out many years ago but I recall more recently a dealer near Manchester selling rebuilt ex RN Enfields, with gearbox etc for £250. Cousin is now into canal boating and is very handy  to have on board when it comes to engine maintenance. He served many years in the army as well, so if you need  your Centurion tank fixing, he's your man.😃

Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^ Thank you BEngo and billh for the suggestions, and Dave Mack for the positive comment.

 

 I will see if I can make contact with BRNC Sandquay, they still operate a fleet of GRP Motor Whalers but I don’t think they truly qualify as 3-in-1 these days. They have been fitted with Yanmar engines too...

 

There used to be a similar maintenance setup at Jupiter Point on the Lynher in Cornwall with fleets of Cutters, Whalers, dinghies and even yachts for training. All gone now in favour of the ubiquitous RIB.

 

Working on my old relic again; I’ve been drawing out the instrument layout on my new ‘dashboard’ and started cutting holes for the tachometer, temperature gauge and push buttons this evening.

 

Bill

Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a dig into my parts list yesterday.  Not much joy.  The dash board has a page to itself and the "instructions" tallies  are listed as Item 1 but just denominated as  "1 set".  The rivets to hold them on are separately listed-22 of them IIRC!

N

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.