Jackson and sons narrowboat builders .. what’s your thoughts on their builds

[Warthog]

Hi everyone! 
so I’m looking for a little advice 

after looking at used narrowboats for a while I’ve decided to have a shell built and just work away at it myself to get exactly what I’m after 

 

I’ve been looking at Jackson and sons , I really like the look of their boats myself but I would like to know what you guys think because I’m new to all this and could always use more advice and guidance.. what to you think of their ...

 

style ?  
Quality of work ?

value for money ?

 

Has anyone had a build done by them before? 
what where your thoughts ? Pros /cons .. they are a pretty new company.

would you recommend them ?

 

thanks for reading! I’ll look forward to hearing what you guys think ?

[Alan de Enfield]

Just a question about what you are taking on :

 

Are you aware of the RCD (Recreational Craft Directive) and what it means to DIY boat builders, and, what it means if you don't comply ?

[Warthog]

Yeah .. don’t worry .. I’m doing plenty of home work ?

[Alan de Enfield]

38 minutes ago, Chooglin said:

Yeah .. don’t worry .. I’m doing plenty of home work ?

I'm not worried, 'no skin off my nose', I am just trying to help you avoid problems later.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[Warthog]

.

58 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I'm not worried, 'no skin off my nose', I am just trying to help you avoid problems later.

Cheers mate .. you know what would be handy tho .. a simple book that highlights all the regulations when fitting out a narrowboat 

  

I’ll be doing all the electrics and plumbing ect but don’t want to overlook any requirements to comply with RCD and BSS along the way 

Is there such a thing as a manual for this to keep me right that I can buy ?? Something that at cuts out all the lawyer language and makes it easy to understand.. I was an engineer for 14 years and I’m competent at doing most work in domestic buildings but this is different obviously.. but I know what keeping up to date with regulations can be like so if you or anybody els has advice on that it would be much appreciated... thanks ?

Edited August 21, 2020 by Chooglin

[Alan de Enfield]

26 minutes ago, Chooglin said:

.

Everything I have on the subject is Pdf' which this forum will not allow to be posted due to a perceived risk of virus's.

 

Send me a PM with your email address and I'll gladly send you some 'outline' requirements, there are 1000's of pages, an Act of Parliament and 100's of ISO standards that need to be purchased, read and cross referenced,,

 

There is an alternative, which is not to build in accordance with the RCD but that means you cannot legally sell the boat for 5 years after 'it is first put onto the market' (basically finished and put in the water)

You may have no plans to sell it within 5 years, but sometimes life throws a curved ball (divorce, losing job, serious illness etc) and we have to do things we didn't plan to do.

 

Some folks will say "the risk of you getting caught is small" and it may well be, the choice is yours but at least if you are aware then you can make that informed decision

 

Without an RCD you may find a buyer for it if you are lucky but the price achieved tends to be much lower because of the risks involved.

I have told this story several times, but I bought a boat without an RCD certificate and no VAT paid certificate - I offered the seller £80,000 less than his asking price because of the lack of paperwork - he accepted, and I then had to resolve the paperwork issues with the EU before I could leave the country and bring it back home. 

 

 

Remember that you experience as a domestic electrician is actually a counter productive thing - everything you have learned  now has to be unlearned - we do not use T&E, we must use 'flexible' conductors, we do not (generally) work on 'cable current ratings' but 'volt drop', with the run lengths involved at 12v 'losing' 1 volt means that 'stuff' won't work - we are looking at 2% volt drop over the length of run, so it would not be unusual to use 10mm2 to run a 160 watt fridge, just a couple of examples.

[Warthog]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Everything I have on the subject is Pdf' which this forum will not allow to be posted due to a perceived risk of virus's.

 

Send me a PM with your email address and I'll gladly send you some 'outline' requirements, there are 1000's of pages, an Act of Parliament and 100's of ISO standards that need to be purchased, read and cross referenced,,

 

There is an alternative, which is not to build in accordance with the RCD but that means you cannot legally sell the boat for 5 years after 'it is first put onto the market' (basically finished and put in the water)

You may have no plans to sell it within 5 years, but sometimes life throws a curved ball (divorce, losing job, serious illness etc) and we have to do things we didn't plan to do.

 

Some folks will say "the risk of you getting caught is small" and it may well be, the choice is yours but at least if you are aware then you can make that informed decision

 

Without an RCD you may find a buyer for it if you are lucky but the price achieved tends to be much lower because of the risks involved.

I have told this story several times, but I bought a boat without an RCD certificate and no VAT paid certificate - I offered the seller £80,000 less than his asking price because of the lack of paperwork - he accepted, and I then had to resolve the paperwork issues with the EU before I could leave the country and bring it back home. 

 

 

Remember that you experience as a domestic electrician is actually a counter productive thing - everything you have learned  now has to be unlearned - we do not use T&E, we must use 'flexible' conductors, we do not (generally) work on 'cable current ratings' but 'volt drop', with the run lengths involved at 12v 'losing' 1 volt means that 'stuff' won't work - we are looking at 2% volt drop over the length of run, so it would not be unusual to use 10mm2 to run a 160 watt fridge, just a couple of examples.

Thanks Alan ! That’s a great help .. that would be very much appreciated mate ? I’ll send you my email via DM ? yeah I get your point about the electrics for sure ! I’ve been looking all that stuff up and like you said there are quite a few things I’ll need to adjust to .. actually it’s the 12v stuff that comes better to me .. I’m a classic car guy .. length of wires is never been something I’ve had to take into consideration in the past but I’ve been reading plenty about it over the last few months ! I’m quite excited about the challenge ?thanks again for all your help ❤️

[Up-Side-Down]

Having, (quite rightly) warned of the demands of the RCD and how easy it is to get things wrong when relating house building experience to narrowboat construction I, for one, would be very interested in forum members responses to the OP's original question. I must admit to not having come across the narrowboat builders Jackson and Son before, so looked them up. Their somewhat upright cabins stirred a memory and I reckon there is at least one hire fleet on the Mons & Brecs that must use their shells. Makes sense on the geography alone. I'd be just as intrigued as the OP to learn more about these builders and hear comments about the quality and the aesthetics of these shells.

 

However, I have found some pics of one of their nb's in build which might be helpful ..............

[Alan de Enfield]

The lack of tumblehome is an unnecessary 'risk' for cruising boats.

[WotEver]

33 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The lack of tumblehome is an unnecessary 'risk' for cruising boats.

And looks like 'a box on a barge'

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

And looks like 'a box on a barge'

I have already been chastised this week for saying NB's aren't boats, so I was trying to be more diplomatic.

[Warthog]

*

Edited August 23, 2020 by Chooglin

[Warthog]

[Bod]

One of the signs of quality, I was always told, was to look at the underside of the rubbing strips.

Are they spot welded, or continuously welded?

Spot weld will allow water behind the rubbing strip, leading to unremovable rust.

 

Bod.

[Warthog]

[Warthog]

[Warthog]

[Warthog]

[Warthog]

I personally think they look great .. just wanted some other people’s thoughts .. I’ve more or less decided that these are the guys I want to built my narrowboat .. so far they have been super helpful and quick to reply to any of my questions.. I made the 270 mile journey to go and see them recently and they where just brilliant.. there are more photos on their Facebook page if anyone wants to take a proper look ?❤️

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Chooglin said:

I personally think they look great .. just wanted some other people’s thoughts .. I’ve more or less decided that these are the guys I want to built my narrowboat .. so far they have been super helpful and quick to reply to any of my questions.. I made the 270 mile journey to go and see them recently and they where just brilliant.. there are more photos on their Facebook page if anyone wants to take a proper look ?❤️

The tumblehome is rather vertical, and tumblehome has been developed over 200 years of canal usage to avoid damaging the boat when going thru bridge holes and tunnels.

Are you going to ask them to include tumblehome in the one they build for you ?

 

Where do you plan to use it ?

(Maybe there are no narrow bridges or tunnels)

[system 4-50]

No reinforcing on the upper cabin sides?  Mine has lengths of angle in suitable positions but then I have big windows.  I don't know what the norm is.

[Tracy D'arth]

11 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

No reinforcing on the upper cabin sides?  Mine has lengths of angle in suitable positions but then I have big windows.  I don't know what the norm is.

It avoids the welding stress points showing outside, the cabin sides may be 5mm plate and not benefit from bracing, a common practice these days.

[Warthog]

16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The tumblehome is rather vertical, and tumblehome has been developed over 200 years of canal usage to avoid damaging the boat when going thru bridge holes and tunnels.

Are you going to ask them to include tumblehome in the one they build for you ?

 

Where do you plan to use it ?

(Maybe there are no narrow bridges or tunnels)

Hi Alan ! ? yeah that’s been pointed out by Jonathan before ... he said the same thing .. I’ll ask them about it.. maybe I’ll ask if they can change that ? I like how it looks tho .. but I can easily imagine how it could be a problem under narrow bridge and so on .. it will be on the Forth and Clyde canal .. moored in bowling hopefully.. I’m not going to be cruising up and down the canal all the time .. saying that there will come a day when I want to sell it on and then who knows where it will end up 

[Up-Side-Down]

1 hour ago, system 4-50 said:

No reinforcing on the upper cabin sides?  Mine has lengths of angle in suitable positions but then I have big windows.  I don't know what the norm is.

Without vertical lengths of angle spaced regularly along the cabin sides what is there to attach battens to for the cabin side linings? My boat is tug configuration with nothing larger than portholes but there are still regularly spaced vertical 1" x 1" angle into which I cleated 2" x 1" battens to attach the ply lining to. Without this mechanical fixing the only other possibility I can think of is glueing battens straight onto the steel with polyurethane adhesive. I've done that on the roof (following the curve) and they don't appear to have moved in 21 years! Can't recall if added the 'assistance' of some self tappers.

[WotEver]

3 hours ago, Chooglin said:

 

 

 

That light will never last.  The first time you hit an underwater obstruction....

Edited August 23, 2020 by WotEver