Safety opinion

[Chris Lingwood]

My boat is slightly unusual in as much as its bedroom is at the bow. This means that in the event of a fire amidships (where the stove is) we have to exit by the bow hatch. At the moment this is fine because our mooring is a single 100m jetty which covers one whole side of the boat. BWML want to move us onto a jetty which will be a good 7 foot shorter than our boat so our bow will be firmly over the water blocking that escape route. The gunwale won't be an acceptable route because the way we will be forced to moor there will be a rope along at least part of it (lovely trip hazard in the dark). Bow in isn't an option either because the only doors which are externally unlockable are at the stern.

 

This leaves us with the option of taking to the roof or the water, neither of which are going to be particularly safe in the winter when it gets icy and often blows a gale. I'm really quite unhappy about this but I'd like to get some opinions from you guys.

[Teadaemon]

I'd suggest that the easiest solution would be to modify your bow doors so that they're externally unlockable, and then moor bow in. Failing that you could acquire a tender and keep it moored at the bows (or on top of the roof) as a lifeboat, or even get hold of a cheap liferaft, though I'd suggest that a dinghy would have more non-emergency uses than a liferaft.

[carlt]

My boat is slightly unusual in as much as its bedroom is at the bow. This means that in the event of a fire amidships (where the stove is) we have to exit by the bow hatch. At the moment this is fine because our mooring is a single 100m jetty which covers one whole side of the boat. BWML want to move us onto a jetty which will be a good 7 foot shorter than our boat so our bow will be firmly over the water blocking that escape route. The gunwale won't be an acceptable route because the way we will be forced to moor there will be a rope along at least part of it (lovely trip hazard in the dark). Bow in isn't an option either because the only doors which are externally unlockable are at the stern.

 

This leaves us with the option of taking to the roof or the water, neither of which are going to be particularly safe in the winter when it gets icy and often blows a gale. I'm really quite unhappy about this but I'd like to get some opinions from you guys.

Are they reducing your charges to those of a boat 7' shorter?

I am inclined to think that, because of health and safety and BSS regs, they shouldn't be allowed to do this. The pontoon they wish you to move to is not suitable for a boat as long as yours.

 

I'd refuse to move and request a site meeting with the marina manager and an HSE officer.

[StoneHenge]

At our marina, the jettis length only covers half our boat, so if we had to escape say out of the stern because the bow was on fire (where the stove is) and that was moored up to the front jetti, our only escape would be into the water as well, or the roof.

 

Not very safe either, which is another reason we spend so much time not there. It's safer!

[carlt]

I'd suggest that the easiest solution would be to modify your bow doors so that they're externally unlockable, and then moor bow in. Failing that you could acquire a tender and keep it moored at the bows (or on top of the roof) as a lifeboat, or even get hold of a cheap liferaft, though I'd suggest that a dinghy would have more non-emergency uses than a liferaft.

If you're inclined to be pushed around, which, as a customer shelling out serious money, I wouldn't.

 

Knowing BW, they'll charge you a licence and mooring fee for the tender as well.

[Sir Nibble]

Chris, just out of interest. Are you asking for safety advice for your change of mooring, or seeking ammunition to argue against the move? Will your mooring fees be reduced by 7' worth.

[bottle]

Hi Chris

 

Not the ideal situation. (under statement)

 

Thoughts, please disregard if you wish.

 

Always ensure the stove is out, when going to bed. That will not guarantee safety but will help.

 

Contact BW and raise your concerns, they obviously have a reason for wishing to move you (that's between you and them), they maybe helpful if they are made aware of the situation.

 

Edit: when i started typing no one had replied, now there are lots, all better than mine

Edited September 26, 2007 by bottle

[Teadaemon]

If you're inclined to be pushed around, which, as a customer shelling out serious money, I wouldn't.

 

Knowing BW, they'll charge you a licence and mooring fee for the tender as well.

 

Perhaps I'm just being somewhat more pessimistic about the chances of winning?

 

A tender would certainly be subject to a licence, but if you kept it on top of the boat then it shouldn't attract a mooring fee.

[carlt]

Perhaps I'm just being somewhat more pessimistic about the chances of winning?

 

A tender would certainly be subject to a licence, but if you kept it on top of the boat then it shouldn't attract a mooring fee.

Well if I was offered a (for example) 70' mooring which I accepted, paid for and moved onto and was subsequently asked to move to a 63' mooring, I'd be quite confident of the strength of my contract and would expect to win.

[Chris Lingwood]

I'd like to argue against the move really. The price has just been increased by £500-£600 this year (just had the bill) so I'm in no mood to endanger myself and my fiancée for the sake of BWML's convenience and profit. To my knowledge the mooring fee will NOT be reduced accordingly although I haven't formally brought the situation to the managers attention. I want to know where I stand in reasonable persons opinion first.

 

I have mentioned it to someone I believe to be higher up in BWML who's justification was that its their standard ratio of jetty to boat and since its what they always do then its fine. A frankly crap justification but one I should have expected from someone who later in the meeting admitted with a smile that he doesn't know very much about boats.

 

I could by a tender but they WOULD charge you at the very least for the mooring if it was a constantly floating one. Licence probably wouldn't be needed because of the special nature of Glasson basin.

 

Putting the stove out is a fair precaution BUT what if there is an unexpected electrical fire or gas fire. These things happen as I'm sure you're aware. Also the lounge is bow wards of the stove.

 

Also adjusting the bow doors isn't really appropriate, she's a bit of a special case as far as bows go

 

This isn't the only issue with the new jetties, I'm not convinced by their solidarity and I will not be convinced untill they have survived a few storms. Glasson basin with a firm wind across it has been known to generate waves up to my WINDOWS!

 

Also there are in my opinion to few cleats for the conditions. I will HAVE to have AT LEAST 3 full sized tyres down the side of my boat. This is because the sides of the jetty are too high and "short" and in normal water levels my boat will be around level with the BASE of it at the stern. Since the basin has a sea lock/sea drains and is at the end of an often closed branch the water level can fluctuate quite significantly so I could find my boat hooked under the jetty and sunk. Unfortunate the ropes for these tyres will take up ALL of the cleats leaving none for actually mooring the boats and they are too small to be reused.

Edited September 26, 2007 by Chris Lingwood

[WJM]

I moor stern-in like you - with a good 15 feet of my bow beyond the jetty. Regardless of the internal layout of the boat, the doors at each end are escape routes. An emergency that forced me to evacuate out the front would not concern me. Onto the front deck and back down the gunnel to the jetty is not going to be a big problem. Absolute worst case I might have to jump over onto the adjacent boat or even into the water, all 4 foot of it, and wade to the bank. On balance, I wouldn't worry about it!

 

 

Rope trip hazard; thread your bow rope through the fender eye to keep it off the gunnel, or use the centre line instead

Edited September 26, 2007 by WJM

[Chris Lingwood]

Its around 2-4 meters deep where the moorings are not only that but BWML have had the cheek to put up "Danger deep water" signs. And most winters (with the exception of last winter) it freezes over fully, I'd not be happy jumping out into icy water. It would be a good 10 meter swim to the poorly defined bank in potentially 0 degree water. Because there's no chance of getting back onto the jetties.

 

I could reroute that rope but I don't think the fender eyes are that strong on my boat. Also we have pretty extreme gales and I wouldn't be happy with just a centre line. This mooring isn't quite like a normal canal mooring (which is how BWML are treating it). We are very exposed to high winds and resultant remarkably high waves because we are on the coast.

 

Because they are angled jetties the next boat would be set back from mine...or missing.

Edited September 26, 2007 by Chris Lingwood

[WJM]

You need a longer jetty then, or a shorter boat!

[carlt]

You need a longer jetty then, or a shorter boat!

Or to stay on the mooring you originally agreed to occupy and pay for.

[Alastair]

Pontoons/jetties shorter than the boat are pretty common in marinas.

 

I think BW should provide permanent ladders at frequent intervals, in case people do fall in. A cheap option that saves lives.

 

I'm more concerned about the possibility of your boat being trapped under the edge of the jetty. Non-floating jetties normally have boarding or piles to prevent boats drifting under them. Maybe point this out to BW?

[Chris Lingwood]

In fairness I've heard (since I last posted) they have intentions to add extra boards down the side of the jetty. I'll wait and see on that one they've made such a pigs ear of the rest of it that they probably won't be up to the job either. There still won't be enough cleats for tyres and mooring ropes though. I'm quite happy to stay where I am at the moment, well without the massive price rise. But such is life.

Pontoons/jetties shorter than the boat are pretty common in marinas.I think BW should provide permanent ladders at frequent intervals, in case people do fall in. A cheap option that saves lives.I'm more concerned about the possibility of your boat being trapped under the edge of the jetty. Non-floating jetties normally have boarding or piles to prevent boats drifting under them. Maybe point this out to BW?

I agree about the ladders. Currently there are none.Just to see the weather, this isn't a normal canal marina. Its windy! Been worse than this too!http://www.philodor.f2s.com/Glasson/Wind.html

[bottle]

Why do I get the feeling that some one in a nice warm office in the centre of a town, thought the finger moorings would be a good idea.

 

 

Chris just viewed the video, BL**DY H**L

[Chris Lingwood]

Chris just viewed the video, BL**DY H**L

 

hehe...told you it wasn't normal! Now you see why a safe and secure mooring is a bit of a must! That's not the worst weather we've had, not far off though.

 

 

You see that large area of open water on the first video. That is where BWML want to put 60 yes SIXTY! narrowboats on floating pontoons perpendicular to the key. They are clearly quite mental! Side on to those waves would sink my boat.

 

Don't get me started on the chalets and caravan site. They are trying to turn a working boat yard into centre parcs. And yes that is tax payers money designated to be spend on waterways being diverted to fund a chalet site.

[tidal]

You see that large area of open water on the first video. That is where BWML want to put 60 yes SIXTY! narrowboats on floating pontoons perpendicular to the key. They are clearly quite mental! Side on to those waves would sink my boat.

 

Well that is one way of creating a breakwater I guess

 

 

With the amount of fetch you have there you have to havea secure mooring with the appropriate cleats etc.

I am pretty sure that you do have a right to insist on this if they are supplying you with a mooring suitable for your vessel

[Sir Nibble]

I spent 3 years stern on to a pontoon and using 7' of it just the same as the 40 footers on either side of me. Still had to pay for 50' though. Moorings are a sellers market, ultimately the marina can invite you to F O with a big smile on their face.

[gaggle]

i would like to see a few of the "slow down" merchants moored in them waves.

[Nine of Hearts]

i would like to see a few of the "slow down" merchants moored in them waves.

...and those who like that sort of thing could scorch up and down at 4mph without adding to the general turbulence. Perhaps we should have wave machines in all canals?

 

aaah, Glasson. I got married in that there church. My faith in him upstairs taking a fatal knock when there was no celestial "Noooooooooo!!!!!" issued from the rafters at the crucial moment.

[tidal]

I spent 3 years stern on to a pontoon and using 7' of it just the same as the 40 footers on either side of me. Still had to pay for 50' though. Moorings are a sellers market, ultimately the marina can invite you to F O with a big smile on their face.

 

Hmm I am pretty sure that the salt water press covered a case a couple or so years ago where a boat was a total loss after breaking away from a pontoon mooring because of inadequate securing points. If i remember rightly it was taken on by the insurance company.........

 

I will have a scrat around and see if I can find the reference.

 

You are right about the FO though. I know that after the marina's insurance had to pay out for the replacement of the vessel they did do exactly that

[blackrose]

My boat's at least 12' longer than my pontoon mooring - I think it's a pretty common situation. It's important to tie up properly using centre ropes and taking the bow or stern line that's overhanging onto the other side of the pontoon at an angle or onto your neighbour's boat. On floating pontoons you can tie up as tight as you like but don't attach ropes low down on the concrete piling itself as it prevents the pontoon moving up during periods of heavy rain.

Edited September 26, 2007 by blackrose

[AMModels]

and you chose to moor there???! Ive seen sailing competitions called off for having less fierce waves, I think Id use chains and anchors rather than ropes in there and if anyone asked me to moor to a short jetty Id invite them to spend a blowy night aboard moored to said short jetty.