Jump to content
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Strawberry Orange Banana Lime Leaf Slate Sky Blueberry Grape Watermelon Chocolate Marble
Longmeadow

Dangerous/reckless Intent?

Featured Posts

The only potentially serious incident I have experienced was on my first canal holiday in 1976, when a group of us hired the entire original Black Prince fleet of two boats (Nelson and Rodney) for a week. I was on Nelson and we were turning the boat around at Braunston somewhere between bridge 91 and Braunston turn where the canal was plenty wide enough for our 60' boat. Just as we were at 90° to the bank, from the Napton junction direction the prow of a boat came through the bridge  with a breaking bow wave. It was an ex-working boat plus butty camping boat  combination and despite us sounding the horn, he clealy didn't see us until the steerer was through the bridge. We did our best to turn, but all we could do was call down to those inside to hang on as we were about to be rammed, and he struck us in the middle. Fortunately he had managed to slow down somewhat, but it did  make a bang, and no damage was done. The skipper of the other boat gave us some lip about  being bad drivers. Our understanding was that you should  always check the canal abead when going round  bends  or passing through bridges, so  I guess it was just bluster on his part. The ironic thing was that, due to Ben Hur having recently been on TV, we had  been making comments like "ramming speed" all week!

 

I had a brush with French maritime bureaucracy some 10 years ago when helping my wife to deal with the estate of her late brother, a brit who had been resident in France for over 30 years: we were the only family members that knew any french.  On retirement he had bought an "Old Gaffer" and had it shipped from the USA to France.  As it was a new importation into the EC, it would have had to comply with the then-current EC regulations regarding bouyancy etc. to allow it to be registered with the French authorities, unless he could show it was built to a traditional design. Fortunately he had been able to do this, and so the Bureau Veritas in Paris were able to issue him with the necessary certificate. This restricted use to within 3 nautical miles of the coast, and during daylight hours only. We found a buyer, and when I was sorting out the documents for the notaire to complete the sale,  noticed that registration was conditional on the boat not being sold on within 5 years: earlier sale would have required the boat to comply with the  current regulations, which was simply not possible for an Old Gaffer.  Fortunately the 5 year deadline only had a few weeks to go, so the sale could be delayed until after the deadline.  I know that some people have found the french offhand,  but our notaire  and the other french people we dealt with, were extemely helpful.

Edited by Ronaldo47
Typo
  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 08/07/2020 at 14:06, Longmeadow said:

The River Trent near Farndon/Fiskerton is apparently a dangerous place to be if you are in a small boat......

Does one isolated event make the place where it ocurred dangerous?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Does one isolated event make the place where it ocurred dangerous?

 

Yes it's an absolutely frightful place and no place for narrowboats. Far too dangerous for them ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this probably comes under reckless.  I would appear that the cruiser switched his windscreen wiper on in the rain and the blade fell off.  He then left the helm with the boat under power and went up to the flying bridge so he could see where he was going.  If the strong wind the boat then crashed the galley window.  Absolute stupidity. 😱

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

I think this probably comes under reckless.  I would appear that the cruiser switched his windscreen wiper on in the rain and the blade fell off.  He then left the helm with the boat under power and went up to the flying bridge so he could see where he was going.  If the strong wind the boat then crashed the galley window.  Absolute stupidity. 😱

 

I watched the video last night and I'm not 100% sure he actually left the vessel underpower whilst he switched helms. They don't actually say that is what happened, they just say he switched helms. Once he lost vision he didn't really have a lot of options did he? I've actually steered a GRP boat from an inside helm position and unless the wipers are spot on it's incredibly difficult to see where you are going, with no wiper at all would be a nightmare.

 

I would put this one down to poor boat maintenance more than anything else.

 

The positive thing was The Foxes were very forgiving about it all. Presumably Le Boat's insurance will cough up.

 

 

Edited by The Happy Nomad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whilst Foxes did specify that the other boat was still under power or not, certainly there was a good chance looking at the results that’s exactly what happened, the hirer rather than knocking the engine into neutral for the change over, Kept it engaged ahead whilst they moved up to the upper conning position. 
 

either way a nasty shock sitting there in your saloon when suddenly another boat try’s to join you on the sofa!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dharl said:

Whilst Foxes did specify that the other boat was still under power or not, certainly there was a good chance looking at the results that’s exactly what happened, the hirer rather than knocking the engine into neutral for the change over, Kept it engaged ahead whilst they moved up to the upper conning position. 
 

either way a nasty shock sitting there in your saloon when suddenly another boat try’s to join you on the sofa!

Reminds me of the bus that crashed, the driver said he was upstairs collecting the fares at the time.  :giggles:

  • Greenie 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a kid I saw something similar down Thern dyke with a bowsprit through the side of a cruiser

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 27/07/2020 at 08:15, Dharl said:

Whilst Foxes did specify that the other boat was still under power or not, certainly there was a good chance looking at the results that’s exactly what happened, the hirer rather than knocking the engine into neutral for the change over, Kept it engaged ahead whilst they moved up to the upper conning position. 
 

either way a nasty shock sitting there in your saloon when suddenly another boat try’s to join you on the sofa!

On hire boats you can't leave the throttle engaged when you switch helm positions. They have to be in neutral.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

On hire boats you can't leave the throttle engaged when you switch helm positions. They have to be in neutral.

How does that work then ? I can see that there may be an interlock to prevent the two control stations being operated at the same time but what's stopping the helmsman getting out of the seat and walking away with the boat still in drive ?

Edited by Flyboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 27/07/2020 at 08:15, Dharl said:

Whilst Foxes did specify that the other boat was still under power or not, certainly there was a good chance looking at the results that’s exactly what happened, the hirer rather than knocking the engine into neutral for the change over, Kept it engaged ahead whilst they moved up to the upper conning position. 
 

either way a nasty shock sitting there in your saloon when suddenly another boat try’s to join you on the sofa!

Its perfectly possible that the hire boat was swept into the foxes boat by the wind and current with the boat in neutral. That is what is suggested by how the incident is described in the video.

 

There is an argument that would say that in fact (if technically possible)  it might have been better to leave it in drive at just above tickover set a course away from the side and other boats and then switch helm positions. That may have avoided the boat being blown and swept off course. Probably not something for an inexperienced boater on an unfamiliar boat to try though. Especially with a weir in the vicinity!

 

I think the hire boat skipper suddenly got caught in a situation that they had no experience of, got disoriented acted on impulse and it backfired on him.

 

It certainly doesn't come into the same category of behaviour of the earlier idiot skipper who buzzed the smaller boat.

 

  • Greenie 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This makes sense.

I do wonder, though, as the hire boat surely had more than one person aboard, why another crew member couldn't have taken the indoor wheel for the time it took for the steerer to reach the outdoor one. This could have obviated the risk of an accident.

Edited by Athy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Athy said:

This makes sense.

I do wonder, though, as the hire boat surely had more than one person aboard, why another crew member couldn't have taken the indoor wheel for the time it took for the steerer to reach the outdoor one. This could have obviated the risk of an accident.

The same did occur to me, but as ever with stuff like this hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

I just think a little bit of confusion possible mild panic kicked in when the forward vision was lost, combined with possible/probable lack of experience meant the skipper didn't act in an entirely logical way.

  • Greenie 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Flyboy said:

How does that work then ? I can see that there may be an interlock to prevent the two control stations being operated at the same time but what's stopping the helmsman getting out of the seat and walking away with the boat still in drive ?

He certainly could, but the problem then is that he has no control over the throttles/ gears as you cannot use the flybridge controls if the lower controls are in use. All he could do is steer.

Many boats with  flybridge also have a system where if you are helming in the lower position the upper steering is automatically disconnected* (and vice versa) so just getting up and changing helms could result in no steering, no throttle control and no neutral.

 

* So you are not trying to turn the other wheel by forcing 'back pressure' thru the valves,

 

 

 

 

Screenshot (293).png

  • Happy 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Happy Nomad said:

think the hire boat skipper suddenly got caught in a situation that they had no experience of, got disoriented acted on impulse and it backfired on him.

I think that is the crux of the problem, inexperienced hirer in a situation that they were not prepared or trained for. 

  • Greenie 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Flyboy said:

...........what's stopping the helmsman getting out of the seat and walking away with the boat still in drive ?

Nothing - same thing  on most boats big enough to have cabins  . Some small open boats and ribs  may have a kill cord.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 08/07/2020 at 14:06, Longmeadow said:

The River Trent near Farndon/Fiskerton is apparently a dangerous place to be if you are in a small boat, having seen a recent video on Facebook, where the owner of a large cruiser travelling at a high speed nearly swamped a small cruiser, in fact damaged its sterndrive when the resultant wash caused it to hit the river bed hard. Not content with that, when the skipper of the small boat shouted across at the offender to slow down, the big cruiser was turned around and accelerated hard and extremely close to the small boat, nearly swamping and capsizing it.  My question is who enforces any speed limits on the Trent and how can the rivers in the UK be regulated to prevent this type of dangerous 'driving'?  In France all skippers of motorised craft over 5m have to hold a permit... which can be withdrawn when this type of stupidity occurs ... but in the UK? 

Please give a link to the Facebook page.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Laurie Booth said:

Please give a link to the Facebook page.

It was posted on here a few weeks ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Athy said:

It was posted on here a few weeks ago.

that facebook video didn't work for me and maybe didn't work for @Laurie Booth  either?    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Dharl said:

that facebook video didn't work for me and maybe didn't work for @Laurie Booth  either?    

I'm not a technical person but, if it doesn't work, is there any point in posting a link to it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it was the video on CWNF that wasn't working, no link provided to Facebook or You tube page so was unable to watch the vid.       Other people were able to watch it as they  made comments accordingly.     

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Dharl said:

it was the video on CWNF that wasn't working, no link provided to Facebook or You tube page so was unable to watch the vid.       Other people were able to watch it as they  made comments accordingly.     

Yes, I saw it. It was somewhat unnerving.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Athy said:

Yes, I saw it. It was somewhat unnerving.

sadly I couldn't :( 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.