The Virtual BCN Challenge 2020

[RebelMike]

8 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Who is going to choose to virtual cruise the entire length of the Walsall?

 

It did strike me though that at 2.5 mph at might be the only bit that’s quicker than the real thing. Especially if it’s a mile and a half shorter.

 

We should grant anyone that brave (or is it stupid) the extra 1.5 miles for free.

 

JP

Yes we normally don't even manage 2mph along there, and that speed calculation is including the extra 1.5 miles that don't really exist!  If the mileage is corrected then it will be even less appealing in the real challenge, so maybe we should stay quiet

 

On the plus side for the virtual cruise you can choose to travel it in a different time period when it would have actually been dredged!

[Captain Pegg]

3 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

On the contrary, that's exactly what I am referring to when I say I'm perfectly happy with it, as long as it's the same for everybody, and in fact I'm finding that it adds to the fun if the Challenge.

So if you wish to include all three interconnecting lost sections that link to the Walsall Canal you’d be forced to spend the equivalent of more than a whole day of your allotted six transiting between Tame Valley Jn and Walsall Jn. After which you may find them hard to include through lack of time in any case.

 

I’m not doing that, I’d sooner forfeit the points.

 

JP

 

 

12 minutes ago, RebelMike said:

I would say a part section can only ever be scored once traveling in the same direction, and can only be scored once in each direction if it is explicitly marked as scoring in both directions, it is part of an "and return" section, or it explicitly appears in each direction on the score sheet.

We’re agreed then. That’s a rule if no one counters it.

[RebelMike]

12 minutes ago, cheshire~rose said:

It appears "The organisers" may have just pulled a virtual blinder by getting the participants to do the organising for them

While we can discuss things we do need you to make a ruling.

 

I think Rebellion, Firefly and The Workers would prefer part sections to be allowed, whereas Keeping Up would prefer them not to be.  I don't think any other teams have weighed in.

 

It would be good to have that ruling today as it makes a big difference to routes.

[Captain Pegg]

8 minutes ago, RebelMike said:

Yes we normally don't even manage 2mph along there, and that speed calculation is including the extra 1.5 miles that don't really exist!  If the mileage is corrected then it will be even less appealing in the real challenge, so maybe we should stay quiet

 

On the plus side for the virtual cruise you can choose to travel it in a different time period when it would have actually been dredged!

You’re doing 2.5 mph wherever you are. The training regime to get fit to leg the tunnels at that speed is killing me.

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Captain Pegg

[Keeping Up]

3 minutes ago, RebelMike said:

While we can discuss things we do need you to make a ruling.

 

I think Rebellion, Firefly and The Workers would prefer part sections to be allowed, whereas Keeping Up would prefer them not to be.  I don't think any other teams have weighed in.

 

It would be good to have that ruling today as it makes a big difference to routes.

I agree - and I'm quite happy to accept it either way as long as it is consistent.

[cheshire~rose]

4 minutes ago, RebelMike said:

While we can discuss things we do need you to make a ruling.

 

I think Rebellion, Firefly and The Workers would prefer part sections to be allowed, whereas Keeping Up would prefer them not to be.  I don't think any other teams have weighed in.

 

It would be good to have that ruling today as it makes a big difference to routes.

I agree but not all the teams will have looked at this discussion (yet) and we do need them to be given an opportunity to have their say. I will give folks a prod to check in and read up on what you have been discussing with a view to us agreeing a rule on it by  this evening 

[Richard T]

We have yet to plan a route - we are not taking this event too seriously so are not looking for nuances in the scoring system However when we do plan a route we will be flexible to allow for the stoppages that are bound to be introduced by C-R at the beginning of each day. I tend to agree with the thought that part sections be allowed and distances be rounded to the nearest half mile.

Perhaps we should call our boat Blue Peter and have a cargo of toilet roll centres sticky back plastic etc!!

[Captain Pegg]

49 minutes ago, cheshire~rose said:

I agree but not all the teams will have looked at this discussion (yet) and we do need them to be given an opportunity to have their say. I will give folks a prod to check in and read up on what you have been discussing with a view to us agreeing a rule on it by  this evening 

I propose the part sections under consideration for scoring are only those involving former major junctions between the existing 100 mile BCN network and the larger parts of the missing 60 miles. I believe the additional sections required would be:

 

Wyrley & Essington Canal

 

Horseley Fields Jn to Wednesfield Jn

Wednesfield Jn to Sneyd Jn

Sneyd Jn to Birchills Jn

Catshill Jn to Ogley Jn

Ogley Jn to Anglesey Basin and return (vice Catshill to Anglesey and return)

Walsall Canal

Pudding Green Jn to Ryders Green Jn
Ryders Green Jn to Toll End Jn
Toll End Jn to Tame Valley Jn
Tame Valley Jn to Moorcroft Jn
Moorcroft Jn to Anson Branch Jn

Anson Branch Jn to Bentley Canal Jn (part of Anson Branch)

Anson Branch Jn to Walsall Jn

 

Dudley Canal

 

Tipton Jn to Pensnett Jn (Parkhead Top Lock) to replace “Dudley Tunnel”

Old Main Line

 

Old Turn Jn to Farmers Bridge Jn and return*

Bradeshall Jn to Tipton Jn

Tipton Jn to Tipton Green Jn

Tipton Green Jn to Factory Jn

 

* - exception proposed to give access to Newhall Branch without having to continue down Farmers Bridge locks which are after all on an entirely different canal.

 

 

 

[Keeping Up]

The rules do need to be consistent, but please don't tie everything down so tightly that there is no room for the competitors to be a little bit "creative"

[cheshire~rose]

30 minutes ago, Richard T said:

We have yet to plan a route - we are not taking this event too seriously so are not looking for nuances in the scoring system However when we do plan a route we will be flexible to allow for the stoppages that are bound to be introduced by C-R at the beginning of each day. I tend to agree with the thought that part sections be allowed and distances be rounded to the nearest half mile.

Perhaps we should call our boat Blue Peter and have a cargo of toilet roll centres sticky back plastic etc!!

Oi!

 

I will have you know the stoppages are NOTHING to do with me.

 

Don't stock your boat with full toilet rolls as you might get ambushed

[Scholar Gypsy]

On 28/04/2020 at 11:11, RebelMike said:

Following on from this, Team Rebellion are pleased to announce that the Inland Alligators have agreed to allow us to virtually hire nb William for this year's challenge.

 

As one half of a working pair, William won the 2016 challenge so we hope to be able to repeat that success!

 

Meanwhile, Team Rebellion's planning department are unsure whether a trip through Dudley Tunnel is going to be part of the route after all, but they await the spreadsheet update before making any further decisions, and are pleased to be unconstrained by Rebellion's modern air draught.

If you are thinking of traversing Dudley tunnel in  1797, this may be relevant. There seem to have been some bizarre rows over the stop lock, which I think was then at the Tipton end.

[Guy & Rose]

This looks great.  A couple of us were looking forward to this cruise to kick off our 2020 cruising year so this will go some way to make up for being stuck at home....perhaps next year we can play on the canals.

Cheers

[RebelMike]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

I propose the part sections under consideration for scoring are only those involving former major junctions between the existing 100 mile BCN network and the larger parts of the missing 60 miles. I believe the additional sections required would be:

 

<snip>

If we are going to go down the route of describing all sections, then I agree with that list, except I would also split the New Main Line at Watery Lane Jn, so add:

Dudley Port Jn to Watery Lane Jn

Watery Lane Jn to Factory Jn

 

And possibly split the Hatherton Branch to allow boats to turn at Churchbridge Jn (to avoid travelling the non-BCN part of the Hatherton Branch).

 

1 hour ago, Keeping Up said:

The rules do need to be consistent, but please don't tie everything down so tightly that there is no room for the competitors to be a little bit "creative"

I know our opinions differ here, but my view is that splitting these sections up (or just allowing scoring of part sections) allows us to be more creative with our routes and gives us more chance to react to any challenges that might come up due to stoppages or whatever else may be thrown at us during the challenge!

 

I am intrigued to see how stoppages will cause a problem for boats that can time travel, but I expect that will become clear next week

[cheshire~rose]

43 minutes ago, Guy & Rose said:

This looks great.  A couple of us were looking forward to this cruise to kick off our 2020 cruising year so this will go some way to make up for being stuck at home....perhaps next year we can play on the canals.

Cheers

Hi Guy & Rose

 

We are glad you think so, can we expect you to be entering your (virtual) vessel? 

[Captain Pegg]

23 minutes ago, RebelMike said:

If we are going to go down the route of describing all sections, then I agree with that list, except I would also split the New Main Line at Watery Lane Jn, so add:

Dudley Port Jn to Watery Lane Jn

Watery Lane Jn to Factory Jn

 

And possibly split the Hatherton Branch to allow boats to turn at Churchbridge Jn (to avoid travelling the non-BCN part of the Hatherton Branch).

Agreed on first one. I overlooked the fact that you don’t have to go right through from Toll End to Tipton Green.

 

As far as I can tell all of the Hatherton Branch scores so it’s similar to the Lichfield section of the W&E and the Dudley No 2 through Lapal in that if you can go down it as far as an existing non-BCN canal but you are committed to doing a non-scoring section. If the Hatherton branch didn’t score I’d agree with you that we should be allowed to retrace steps and score but it seems consistent in the approach with the way it’s been done. I don’t recall the exact reason why the Hatherton branch (ostensibly part of the S&W) scores but the whole provenance of that section is not totally clear cut. Churchbridge locks were arguably S&W as much as they were BCN.

 

I probably should have added in the Two Locks line in Dudley Canal. That would be:

 

Woodside Jn to Blackbrook Jn - 0.5 miles and 2 locks (who’d have thought) with a bonus factor of 4

 

It would also need the following additional part sections:

 

Windmill End Jn to Blackbrook Jn

Blackbrook Jn to Parkhead Jn

Parkhead Jn to Woodside Jn

Woodside Jn to Delph Bottom Lock

 

I’ve just noticed that Delph locks score both ways which isn’t a normal Challenge feature unless it had been added for this year on account of the finish location. Even more reason for the Two Locks line to be in. Particularly for those who are doing a virtual pub crawl. A short cut between The Vine and The Old Swan, now what would it take to restore it...

 

JP

 

 

[john6767]

3 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Agreed on first one. I overlooked the fact that you don’t have to go right through from Toll End to Tipton Green.

 

As far as I can tell all of the Hatherton Branch scores so it’s similar to the Lichfield section of the W&E and the Dudley No 2 through Lapal in that if you can go down it as far as an existing non-BCN canal but you are committed to doing a non-scoring section. If the Hatherton branch didn’t score I’d agree with you that we should be allowed to retrace steps and score but it seems consistent in the approach with the way it’s been done. I don’t recall the exact reason why the Hatherton branch (ostensibly part of the S&W) scores but the whole provenance of that section is not totally clear cut. Churchbridge locks were arguably S&W as much as they were BCN.

 

I probably should have added in the Two Locks line in Dudley Canal. That would be:

 

Woodside Jn to Blackbrook Jn - 0.5 miles and 2 locks (who’d have thought) with a bonus factor of 4

 

It would also need the following additional part sections:

 

Windmill End Jn to Blackbrook Jn

Blackbrook Jn to Parkhead Jn

Parkhead Jn to Woodside Jn

Woodside Jn to Delph Bottom Lock

 

I’ve just noticed that Delph locks score both ways which isn’t a normal Challenge feature unless it had been added for this year on account of the finish location. Even more reason for the Two Locks line to be in. Particularly for those who are doing a virtual pub crawl. A short cut between The Vine and The Old Swan, now what would it take to restore it...

 

JP

 

 

Delph two way was added for the normal challenge this year.

[Captain Pegg]

Just now, john6767 said:

Delph two way was added for the normal challenge this year.

Makes sense but I missed that. I don’t think we could have fitted it in anyway. And hopefully we still won’t be able to, if you see what I mean. I assume the finish point of the next real event will be Withymoor.

[cheshire~rose]

28 minutes ago, RebelMike said:

I am intrigued to see how stoppages will cause a problem for boats that can time travel, but I expect that will become clear next week

There is to be a "wild card" each day which may be something that assists passage or may be something that hinders. 

 

These have already been set in stone in such a way that as we have no idea which boat might be starting where or what their planned route might be we cannot be seen to be victimising or assisting any team when we publish the details each day. It really is the luck of the draw if the stoppage announcements affect any team, no team or all teams and I think us organisers will be watching with interest to see if any teams are heading for a problem they know nothing about! 

 

The stoppages exist in Virtual BCN Challenge time and affect the given point on the canal regardless of what era you happen to be travelling in. It may mean that a team will need to switch era to make use of a stretch that is not affected or it may mean we have to adopt some modern engineering fixes to upgrade and repair Victorian structures. 

[RebelMike]

16 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

As far as I can tell all of the Hatherton Branch scores so it’s similar to the Lichfield section of the W&E and the Dudley No 2 through Lapal in that if you can go down it as far as an existing non-BCN canal but you are committed to doing a non-scoring section. If the Hatherton branch didn’t score I’d agree with you that we should be allowed to retrace steps and score but it seems consistent in the approach with the way it’s been done. I don’t recall the exact reason why the Hatherton branch (ostensibly part of the S&W) scores but the whole provenance of that section is not totally clear cut. Churchbridge locks were arguably S&W as much as they were BCN.

Yes I think it is fair enough not to split it - it's just possible it might be nice to detour down there if you didn't have to commit to the whole lot.  As it is, it's probably only sensible to do it if you start at Hatherton - which is fine, and similar to a lot of the other possible starting points.

[Captain Pegg]

15 minutes ago, RebelMike said:

Yes I think it is fair enough not to split it - it's just possible it might be nice to detour down there if you didn't have to commit to the whole lot.  As it is, it's probably only sensible to do it if you start at Hatherton - which is fine, and similar to a lot of the other possible starting points.

We’re not too bothered by that. We’ll be going were we want to go. Have done a couple of real Challenges like that. Strangely, or perhaps not, those go more to plan than the ones with the theoretically competitive plan.

 

26 minutes ago, cheshire~rose said:

There is to be a "wild card" each day which may be something that assists passage or may be something that hinders. 

 

These have already been set in stone in such a way that as we have no idea which boat might be starting where or what their planned route might be we cannot be seen to be victimising or assisting any team when we publish the details each day. It really is the luck of the draw if the stoppage announcements affect any team, no team or all teams and I think us organisers will be watching with interest to see if any teams are heading for a problem they know nothing about! 

 

The stoppages exist in Virtual BCN Challenge time and affect the given point on the canal regardless of what era you happen to be travelling in. It may mean that a team will need to switch era to make use of a stretch that is not affected or it may mean we have to adopt some modern engineering fixes to upgrade and repair Victorian structures. 

I have a need to be in certain places on certain days as part of my narrative around a planned route so I may have to revert to some old fashioned technology if the boat can’t get there, Shanks’s ‘oss. I’ll leave the team to find a way round.

[Indigo Dreamers]

I haven't caught up with the whole thread, but consistency is the key - as long as the rules are clear and applied fairly then it doesn't matter which option you choose. Given that we're all travelling at the same pace, this is a far more strategic/cerebral challenge than the real thing!

[cheshire~rose]

Work is underway on an update to the spreadsheet which should provide the clarity you have asked for and hence will allow scoring to be far more consistent. 

 

I have a meeting at in half an hour but the aim is for the spreadsheet to be available for the organisers to see ASAP so it can be released to the teams soon after that 

 

While you are twiddling your thumbs, as so many of you have an oultine idea of a route you could spend some time identifying the source of some illustrations for it (assuming you have not already done so) 

 

Thanks for all your very valuable input 

 

Play nicely children 

 

 

[cheshire~rose]

Teams: You have email 

[cheshire~rose]

<sticks out-of-office message on>

[john6767]

10 minutes ago, cheshire~rose said:

Teams: You have email 

As before, can you include me please