The Virtual BCN Challenge 2020

[smudgepuss]

On 25/04/2020 at 14:59, cheshire~rose said:

New forum members have to have made several posts before they can use the private message system and I need a formal entry with an email address sent that way so perhaps you can make a few random posts to get your count up? 

I'm on Team Rebellion with RebelMike, who has now done the necessary to register us. ?

[cheshire~rose]

2 minutes ago, smudgepuss said:

I'm on Team Rebellion with RebelMike, who has now done the necessary to register us. ?

Yes indeed you are and welcome to the forum.

 

I probably ought to create a post to introduce our teams and will try and get that done a little later today 

[john6767]

12 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

That raises a point that I’ve always felt is ambiguous in the real thing.

 

I thought whole sections had to be completed to be scored and it appears to be the same in the virtual challenge. So other than at the terminuses of dead end branches - were it surely is assumed you can wind - why would you need to wind?

 

And It’s just struck me in asking that question your likely answer will be “to fill days up to 7 hours duration and be able to comply with the mooring restrictions”.

 

JP

That would be true.  In the real thing we have winded part way down the Walsall for example (not sure if anyone had used the winding hole for 10 years) to get back to Walsall Basin for the 2pm finish, when our plan had winding at Ocker Hill and we were a bit behind.  I guess in the virtual world you done get behind on plan!

 

That raises the point, Ocker Hill in not a safe mooring location?

edited to add, this has been addressed it is a safe mooring location, phew.

Edited April 26, 2020 by john6767

[cheshire~rose]

I have not forgotten some of you still have questions that have not been answered. I am hoping to be back with an update on that later this afternoon.

 

In the mean time I will update you all on our entrants:

 

Team Keeping Up consists of @Keeping Up & @Pingu who are hoping they won't get water in their diesel

Team Firefly whose spokesperson is @john6767 but he is being ably assisted by Sally, Barry and Caroline. They are busy working on a few upgrades to their vessel in readiness.

Team Red Wharf consist of @Victor Vectis @Little Else and @madcat - they are not giving anything away on their plans so might be one to watch?

The Indigo Dreamers consist of @Indigo Dreamers @Scholar Gypsy and Christine who are very busy being busy but from where I am sitting there may be some herding of cats

Whisky Galore: @Richard T ,Mrs T @trackman and @Mrs Trackman again little detail has been given so may be the dark horse to watch?

The Workers: @Captain Pegg, @tree monkey, @Rob-M and @Dave_P who say they are all busy working and can't really commit to the challenge. hmm - I wonder if they have red herring on their shopping list?

Team Rebellion: conists of @RebelMike and @smudgepuss Challenge veterans I hear but new to the forum

Team Free Spirit consists of @harrybsmith, @DHutch and "his cousin" whose name has not been divilged - a mighty team based at Hockley Port so they have inside knowldge of the Brum canals

 

 

Welcome all - and if you have not yet registered your team and wish to there is still time to do so

 

 

[cheshire~rose]

On 26/04/2020 at 11:29, Keeping Up said:

Forgive me for asking a stupid question, just to be certain: is the score for a section equal to the number of miles plus the number of locks, multiplied by any relevant bonus?

No - the miles are factored up (1x, 2x 3x or 4x) but all locks take 5 mins and score 1 point.

On 26/04/2020 at 11:45, Keeping Up said:

Sorry to appear dense - but does this mean that all junctions between two current navigable canals within the BCN are regarded as safe

Yes, plus defunct junctions part of which remains navigable today (eg Bentley Bridge at the top of the Bentley)

On 26/04/2020 at 01:39, RebelMike said:

We've had an interesting evening poring over Bradshaw's, old online OS maps and Captain Ahab's blog trying to work out how the names on the spreadsheet link to bits of canal - I think we're just about getting there, thank you for the challenge!

 

I would like to join the chorus of people asking if you have to start from one of the listed locations   We're currently assuming you don't have to.

 

The added restriction of where to moor is definitely going to be a pain when planning!  Could you clarify what points deduction applies if we fail to arrive on time?  Does any cruising over 7 hours simply not count, or is it a fixed points per time over penalty?  If some cruising isn't counted can we choose whether to take that at the start or end of the day? (or even in the middle?)

 

I'm assuming that winding doesn't cost any time, but you can only wind at junctions or winding holes.  Correct?

 

Finally, I think this is probably obvious but I don't think it's been clearly stated - is the base score (before bonus factor) 1 point per mile and 1 point per lock, regardless of length of virtual craft?

Correct - one small upgrade to the time machine is that whilst it won’t let you move, it can wind back the time it takes to turn on the spot, meaning time tree winding - but only at junctions or winding holes.

 

Yes - and the one point per lock scoring is consistent whichever era you re travelling in.

 

 

On 26/04/2020 at 07:32, john6767 said:

Oh another interesting question, do we assume that on the close canals there are no winding holes, and that you can therefore only turn at junctions on closed sections?

That is true because we dont really know where they were….. and it would be very complicated

[Victor Vectis]

11 minutes ago, cheshire~rose said:

Team Red Wharf consist of @Victor Vectis @Little Else and @madcat - they are not giving anything away on their plans so might be one to watch?

Thanks for the compliment.

 

But the fact that we are 'not giving anything away on their plans' could be 'cos we haven't made any yet!

 

?

[Keeping Up]

5 minutes ago, cheshire~rose said:

 

Team Keeping Up consists of @Keeping Up & @Pingu who are hoping they won't get water in their diesel

 

 

 

I'm pleased to say that we don't have any diesel problems, but we are definitely having problems with our gearbox - and I don't see any prospect of them being resolved in time for the challenge - but we will not let that stop us!

 

I now have a further question. We finish at Bradley workshops, yet there is apparently no scrore for travelling there from Deepfields Junction. Is this correct or have I missed it somewhere?

[RebelMike]

18 minutes ago, cheshire~rose said:

No - the miles are factored up (1x, 2x 3x or 4x) but all locks take 5 mins and score 1 point.

Woah!  That is not how it works in the normal BCN challenge! 

 

We'll need to restart route planning.  This does at least mean that Dudley canals are more attractive and the omission of the Two Lock Line canal isn't such a shame - though I'd like to point out that it would be perfectly in keeping with the normal BCN challenge to reissue the spreadsheet with corrections to include it

[cheshire~rose]

49 minutes ago, RebelMike said:

Woah!  That is not how it works in the normal BCN challenge! 

 

We'll need to restart route planning.  This does at least mean that Dudley canals are more attractive and the omission of the Two Lock Line canal isn't such a shame - though I'd like to point out that it would be perfectly in keeping with the normal BCN challenge to reissue the spreadsheet with corrections to include it

One of the things you appear to have assumed is that anything about this challenge might be described as being "normal"

 

I think we need to make a couple of additions to the sheet in the light of what people are highlighting. I don't foresee it causing anyone to make major amendments to any plans  when we do but it will be good to do it for completeness.

 

 

[RebelMike]

27 minutes ago, cheshire~rose said:

One of the things you appear to have assumed is that anything about this challenge might be described as being "normal"

 

I think we need to make a couple of additions to the sheet in the light of what people are highlighting. I don't foresee it causing anyone to make major amendments to any plans  when we do but it will be good to do it for completeness.

 

I'm certainly not expecting a great deal of normality from a challenge that had us up until gone midnight last night researching the history of an ironworks that closed in 1801... 

 

However, as the rules are derived from the traditional challenge it would perhaps have been nice if the difference in points scoring had been clearly stated before.  Fortunately the majority of our effort so far has been in general research of the historical canals rather than focusing on a specific route so it's not a problem for us.  In fact, from a rough look this makes a trip through the Dudley Tunnel more attractive points wise and we were very much hoping to include that so I'm quite happy with the change.

[cheshire~rose]

1 minute ago, RebelMike said:

 

I'm certainly not expecting a great deal of normality from a challenge that had us up until gone midnight last night researching the history of an ironworks that closed in 1801... 

 

However, as the rules are derived from the traditional challenge it would perhaps have been nice if the difference in points scoring had been clearly stated before.  Fortunately the majority of our effort so far has been in general research of the historical canals rather than focusing on a specific route so it's not a problem for us.  In fact, from a rough look this makes a trip through the Dudley Tunnel more attractive points wise and we were very much hoping to include that so I'm quite happy with the change.

 So your team have a tin opener to reduce the air draught of the boat then? 

[RebelMike]

1 minute ago, cheshire~rose said:

 So your team have a tin opener to reduce the air draught of the boat then? 

We know Rebellion doesn't fit, and would prefer her to stay intact, so we're considering other boat options for the challenge.  Although it would be interesting to see what 19th century bargees make of a bright purple narrowboat!

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, RebelMike said:

Woah!  That is not how it works in the normal BCN challenge! 

 

We'll need to restart route planning.  This does at least mean that Dudley canals are more attractive and the omission of the Two Lock Line canal isn't such a shame - though I'd like to point out that it would be perfectly in keeping with the normal BCN challenge to reissue the spreadsheet with corrections to include it

Just put it in your log and find out if the organisers allow it. It can’t have been more than half a mile but you’ll have to guess how many locks. If you are really clever you may even claim two locks at Blower’s Green. There’s some really interesting photos available of the former arrangement there.

 

ETA - I think the real benefit of Two Locks Line in planning is as a detour on a route from Windmill End to Parkhead not as a short cut when approaching from Delph which is what it was constructed for originally.

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Captain Pegg

[Captain Pegg]

2 hours ago, Keeping Up said:

I'm pleased to say that we don't have any diesel problems, but we are definitely having problems with our gearbox - and I don't see any prospect of them being resolved in time for the challenge - but we will not let that stop us!

 

I now have a further question. We finish at Bradley workshops, yet there is apparently no scrore for travelling there from Deepfields Junction. Is this correct or have I missed it somewhere?

That bit needs splitting as it’s an up and back score as per all dead ends on the normal Challenge.

 

I couldn’t really make head nor tail of the route from Bradley Locks Branch Junction to Bradley Basin on the scoresheet. I know how it works in the ground.

 

JP

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Captain Pegg

[Keeping Up]

14 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

That bit needs splitting as it’s an up and back score as per all dead ends on the normal Challenge.

The section from Deepfields Junction seems to have been omitted completely. It certainly couldn't be included within the 0.5 mile disused Wednesbury Oak Loop that is mentioned  unless, again, I am missing something?

[RebelMike]

1 minute ago, Keeping Up said:

The section from Deepfields Junction seems to have been omitted completely. It certainly couldn't be included within the 0.5 mile disused Wednesbury Oak Loop that is mentioned  unless, again, I am missing something?

The section from Deepfields to Bradley Workshops is there under New Main Line - listed as "and return" which makes it score both ways

 

However, I'm not convinced any of the listed sections cover Bradley Locks Junction to Bradley Workshops.  Other than that I think I've worked them all out (Wednesbury Oak Loop I think refers to the section going around Bradley Locks Junction).

[john6767]

1 hour ago, cheshire~rose said:

One of the things you appear to have assumed is that anything about this challenge might be described as being "normal"

 

I think we need to make a couple of additions to the sheet in the light of what people are highlighting. I don't foresee it causing anyone to make major amendments to any plans  when we do but it will be good to do it for completeness.

 

 

Just for clarity does that mean that you will be sticking with the scoring of 1 point for a lock irrespective of the section multiplier, or will that be updated to match the real BCN Challenge scoring.  I don’t want to spend time updating the planning software only for it to get changed again ?

 

57 minutes ago, cheshire~rose said:

 So your team have a tin opener to reduce the air draught of the boat then? 

I may go to market with my patent pending upgrade that allows the roof to be lowered to fit through all tunnels and bridges on the BCN.

[Keeping Up]

51 minutes ago, RebelMike said:

The section from Deepfields to Bradley Workshops is there under New Main Line - listed as "and return" which makes it score both ways

 

However, I'm not convinced any of the listed sections cover Bradley Locks Junction to Bradley Workshops.  Other than that I think I've worked them all out (Wednesbury Oak Loop I think refers to the section going around Bradley Locks Junction).

You are quite right - I thought I must have been missing something; I was looking in the wrong place for it. Actually there may be a use for the "and return" concept - if the gap between Bradley Locks Junction and the workshops, which I had also identified, is allocated a score.

 

I also wish we could fit through Dudley tunnel - but there just might be a glimmer of light at the end of that Dudley

[cheshire~rose]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

That bit needs splitting as it’s an up and back score as per all dead ends on the normal Challenge.

 

I couldn’t really make head nor tail of the route from Bradley Locks Branch Junction to Bradley Basin on the scoresheet. I know how it works in the ground.

 

JP

 

 

1 hour ago, Keeping Up said:

The section from Deepfields Junction seems to have been omitted completely. It certainly couldn't be included within the 0.5 mile disused Wednesbury Oak Loop that is mentioned  unless, again, I am missing something?

 

58 minutes ago, RebelMike said:

The section from Deepfields to Bradley Workshops is there under New Main Line - listed as "and return" which makes it score both ways

 

However, I'm not convinced any of the listed sections cover Bradley Locks Junction to Bradley Workshops.  Other than that I think I've worked them all out (Wednesbury Oak Loop I think refers to the section going around Bradley Locks Junction).

 

47 minutes ago, john6767 said:

Just for clarity does that mean that you will be sticking with the scoring of 1 point for a lock irrespective of the section multiplier, or will that be updated to match the real BCN Challenge scoring.  I don’t want to spend time updating the planning software only for it to get changed again ?

 

I may go to market with my patent pending upgrade that allows the roof to be lowered to fit through all tunnels and bridges on the BCN.

 

4 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

You are quite right - I thought I must have been missing something; I was looking in the wrong place for it. Actually there may be a use for the "and return" concept - if the gap between Bradley Locks Junction and the workshops, which I had also identified, is allocated a score.

 

I also wish we could fit through Dudley tunnel - but there just might be a glimmer of light at the end of that Dudley

An amendment to the spreadsheet that should answer all these queries has been formulated and as soon as other team members have sense checked it we will release it 

 

Meanwhile the 5th of the daily quizzes has been formulated. Just one more to go! 

[RebelMike]

6 hours ago, cheshire~rose said:

Team Rebellion: consists of @RebelMike and @smudgepuss Challenge veterans I hear but new to the forum

Lizzie is also part of Team Rebellion, though not yet on the forum.  The rest of Rebellion's regular challenge crew couldn't make it, but challenge newcomer Amy will be joining us (again not yet on the forum).

 

We're hoping to improve on our second place result in last year's challenge, though may be hampered a little by some of us needing to work during the week (always best to get the excuses in early!)

[Richard T]

8 hours ago, cheshire~rose said:

I have not forgotten some of you still have questions that have not been answered. I am hoping to be back with an update on that later this afternoon.

 

In the mean time I will update you all on our entrants:

 

 

Whisky Galore: @Richard T ,Mrs T @trackman and @Mrs Trackman again little detail has been given so may be the dark horse to watch?

 

 

 

Welcome all - and if you have not yet registered your team and wish to there is still time to do so

 

 

Dont forget @cmt1375 who has already suggetsed that we be horse drawn to stop us having to go down the weedhatch very 5minutes around Walsall!! The only time we took part in the challenge we picked up a crane lifting strop in Walsall which stopped Auriga;s (the little Woolwich coal boat) Lister dead. On the plus side with the cratch down we did get a tow through Dudley tunnel which was great. We also went down Ryders Green locks in about 32minutes!!

[cheshire~rose]

13 hours ago, Richard T said:

Dont forget @cmt1375 who has already suggetsed that we be horse drawn to stop us having to go down the weedhatch very 5minutes around Walsall!! The only time we took part in the challenge we picked up a crane lifting strop in Walsall which stopped Auriga;s (the little Woolwich coal boat) Lister dead. On the plus side with the cratch down we did get a tow through Dudley tunnel which was great. We also went down Ryders Green locks in about 32minutes!!

When you say "don't forget" I am unsure I was ever advised whoever this person was part of your team or perhaps that is the forum handle of Mrs T?

 

I will make sure all teams official "spokespeople" have been firmed up before the weekend

[RebelMike]

20 hours ago, RebelMike said:

We know Rebellion doesn't fit, and would prefer her to stay intact, so we're considering other boat options for the challenge.  Although it would be interesting to see what 19th century bargees make of a bright purple narrowboat!

Following on from this, Team Rebellion are pleased to announce that the Inland Alligators have agreed to allow us to virtually hire nb William for this year's challenge.

 

As one half of a working pair, William won the 2016 challenge so we hope to be able to repeat that success!

 

Meanwhile, Team Rebellion's planning department are unsure whether a trip through Dudley Tunnel is going to be part of the route after all, but they await the spreadsheet update before making any further decisions, and are pleased to be unconstrained by Rebellion's modern air draught.

[Rob-M]

27 minutes ago, RebelMike said:

Following on from this, Team Rebellion are pleased to announce that the Inland Alligators have agreed to allow us to virtually hire nb William for this year's challenge.

 

As one half of a working pair, William won the 2016 challenge so we hope to be able to repeat that success!

 

Meanwhile, Team Rebellion's planning department are unsure whether a trip through Dudley Tunnel is going to be part of the route after all, but they await the spreadsheet update before making any further decisions, and are pleased to be unconstrained by Rebellion's modern air draught.

I'm not sure Williams air draft would allow passage through Dudley tunnel.

[RebelMike]

27 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I'm not sure Williams air draft would allow passage through Dudley tunnel.

Hmm, that's unfortunate - I note in Bradshaw's the air draught is listed as 5'9" rather than the current listed 5' 5".  Unfortunately I haven't yet been through the tunnel myself to see, but I guess that repairs have lowered the available headroom?

 

So maybe a little trip back in time might help us fit!