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Can I realistically do a live aboard with 25k?


Pablo Blanco
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3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Those boasting about always selling for more than they paid are not including the cost of ownership.

 

Those who say boats lose you money, are. 

 

 

I am including the costs of improvements (Pram cover, repaint, engine rebuild etc) I do not include the cost of insurance, licence or moorings.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 minute ago, system 4-50 said:

You lose money on boats because you only get back what you paid for it (if you are lucky) and you do NOT get back the vast amount you spend each year on maintaining it.

 

Or licensing and insuring it, or feeding it with diesel and coal. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Or licensing and insuring it, or feeding it with diesel and coal. 

 

 

I see the mooring fees and maintenance costs as the rent I would pay on a house and the fuels as the utility bills so pretty much the same general living costs in or out of the water.

  What isn’t factored in to general living costs is depreciation........I would like to get an idea on what that actually is or isn’t.

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7 minutes ago, Pablo Blanco said:

I see the mooring fees and maintenance costs as the rent I would pay on a house and the fuels as the utility bills so pretty much the same general living costs in or out of the water.

Exactly.

 

(Although I include maintenance in my 'cost of ownership')

 

7 minutes ago, Pablo Blanco said:

What isn’t factored in to general living costs is depreciation........I would like to get an idea on what that actually is or isn’t.

On a new boat (like a new car) you will have huge depreciation.

Buy a 10 year old boat and the majority of depreciation has already been taken by the previous owner.

Buy a 20 year old boat and you will suffer very little depreciation and the selling price of the boat will more than cover it.

Buy a 30+ year old boat and there will be little or no depreciation, selling price could be considerably higher than purchase price. (Profit !!)

 

Buy a 70 year old (historical) boat and it will bankrupt you.

 

A boat will not appreciate like bricks and mortar but you are not investing £200k+

 

 

'Old hands' will be sick of this story but just as an example of 'buying right'.

My Cat was up for sale in Croatia at 'market price' of just under £250k, it was missing some paperwork (RCD and VAT certificates) so I put in an offer of £160k knowing that I could resolve the missing paperwork problem. The offer was accepted.

I can afford to sell it at 'below market rate' and still make a big profit that will more than recover ALL ownership costs over many years.

 

Buy it right !

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59 minutes ago, Pablo Blanco said:

This is confusing me guys............I have read countless posts on here saying that you will lose money on any boat!! ?

I think general consensus is, most narrowboats break even(if bought at right price) when sold, however if you are an experienced narrowboater with good negotiation skill and patience, you can make a profit(depending on the market condition and how low you bought).

people are comparing to house which has historically always appreciated even taking inflation into account(overall) which is not the case with narrowboat. The suggested mindset is, 'this is where I am going to live, I enjoy this way of life, if I end up with a small profit when I sell, its cherry on top of the cake, but it cannot be guaranteed...  however its still better than buying a house I can barely afford'.

There are people who 'flip' boats for profit too, but it depends on how much risk you can take.

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1 hour ago, Pablo Blanco said:

That is good news.........so you have always made a profit on your actual boats (besides 1) is this because you have renovated them? 

A couple I have improved but in the main prices have gone up and I have often made daft bids with cash in my pocket. I bought a colecraft in 2001 advertised for 16k for a 6k bid on a bad rainy january, I took a risk as the boat had nor been out the water or blacked for 18 years. I spent about 5k over the next four years whilst living on it and sold it quickly for 23k. Others have usualy risen about 10 percent. My present boat was on brokerage with a big broker for 58k and I saw it at 11 am and paid for it at 1120 the missus never even looked at it. i paid 45 for it and would easily get 55 for it today. You dont make real money on them but you shouldnt lose if you are canny.

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22 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

A couple I have improved but in the main prices have gone up and I have often made daft bids with cash in my pocket. I bought a colecraft in 2001 advertised for 16k for a 6k bid on a bad rainy january, I took a risk as the boat had nor been out the water or blacked for 18 years. I spent about 5k over the next four years whilst living on it and sold it quickly for 23k. Others have usualy risen about 10 percent. My present boat was on brokerage with a big broker for 58k and I saw it at 11 am and paid for it at 1120 the missus never even looked at it. i paid 45 for it and would easily get 55 for it today. You dont make real money on them but you shouldnt lose if you are canny.

Not losing is good enough for me and I think you guys might help me get not get stiffed as long as I take the time to get your opinions before parting with my hard earned? 

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11 minutes ago, Pablo Blanco said:

Not losing is good enough for me and I think you guys might help me get not get stiffed as long as I take the time to get your opinions before parting with my hard earned? 

Don't buy at the bottom end of the market, spend £1000's in modernising it and expect to get your money back.

Don't buy at the top-end of the market you'll loose.

Buy at the £25k - £45k do some smartening up, keep it well maintained and you won't lose.

 

My last Narrowboat I bought at £30k, kept it for 3 years, had it blacked and painted (cost £7k) and sold it for £45k

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17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Don't buy at the bottom end of the market, spend £1000's in modernising it and expect to get your money back.

Don't buy at the top-end of the market you'll loose.

Buy at the £25k - £45k do some smartening up, keep it well maintained and you won't lose.

 

My last Narrowboat I bought at £30k, kept it for 3 years, had it blacked and painted (cost £7k) and sold it for £45k

My problem is I only have 25k............on a positive note I do have useful skills, plus access to hardware and skilled people who will willingly work for a few tinnies and a decent pan of scouse at lunch.

   

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Just now, Pablo Blanco said:

My problem is I only have 25k............on a positive note I do have useful skills, plus access to hardware and skilled people who will willingly work for a few tinnies and a decent pan of scouse at lunch.

   

You can do it - look at those boats I sent details of.

Negotiate hard, they are not going to get sold in the next 6 months and they will no doubt be having to pay mooring fees and insurance, better to 'cut their losses' drop the price and sell to you. You are in a strong position.

 

You have a lot to learn grasshopper !

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4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You can do it - look at those boats I sent details of.

Negotiate hard, they are not going to get sold in the next 6 months and they will no doubt be having to pay mooring fees and insurance, better to 'cut their losses' drop the price and sell to you. You are in a strong position.

 

You have a lot to learn grasshopper !

We are on the same wavelength I think! ..........my dilemma right now is lifestyle........the main reason I am looking at a live aboard is for the lifestyle. I work a continental shift pattern as a maintenance engineer. This gives me over 200 days per year to myself........As said I am recently divorced and my children are all grown up so most of those free days really are to myself..............the thought of using those days to mess about on a boat is very appealing to me. Do I want to mess about on canals or at sea is the question?

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15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You can do it - look at those boats I sent details of.

Negotiate hard, they are not going to get sold in the next 6 months and they will no doubt be having to pay mooring fees and insurance, better to 'cut their losses' drop the price and sell to you. You are in a strong position.

 

You have a lot to learn grasshopper !

I also have to accept that I am financially a very short step away from being totally on my a**e.........it’s been a long time since I didn’t have an equity safety net........when you have a very flimsy safety net it concentrates the mind on staying upright......  believe me! 

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1 minute ago, Pablo Blanco said:

I also have to accept that I am financially a very short step away from being totally on my a**e.........it’s been a long time since I didn’t have an equity safety net........when you have a very flimsy safety net it concentrates the mind on staying upright......  believe me! 

And you need to remain positive, this is the next step of the rest of your life.

Yes - you need to make the right decisions and folks on here will give you the most valuable advice you can get, be it for a canal boat, or a coastal boat.

But, at the end of the day its your decision to buy a boat or rent a flat.

 

You have a job, your safety net can be gradually rebuilt, and if you buy the right boat after delivery and mooring costs you'll have nothing else to pay except your food and utilities as the kitty starts to fill up again.

 

Make the right decision and GO FOR IT.

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

And you need to remain positive, this is the next step of the rest of your life.

Yes - you need to make the right decisions and folks on here will give you the most valuable advice you can get, be it for a canal boat, or a coastal boat.

But, at the end of the day its your decision to buy a boat or rent a flat.

 

You have a job, your safety net can be gradually rebuilt, and if you buy the right boat after delivery and mooring costs you'll have nothing else to pay except your food and utilities as the kitty starts to fill up again.

 

Make the right decision and GO FOR IT.

Nice one matey?

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18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Well, you certainly wouldn't be using that on the canals (even de-masted).

 

Must admit to not being a fan of ferro-concrete.

If it worked 'well' you'd see a lot more of them about, it doesn't so you don't.

Thank you, just browsing around and came across it.....seemed a lot of boat for a little money.......if it seems too good to be true.........

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15 minutes ago, Pablo Blanco said:

Thank you, just browsing around and came across it.....seemed a lot of boat for a little money.......if it seems too good to be true.........

 

Anything made from ferro-concrete has a massive drawback which nobody has actually explained so far. Nobody wants them because they fear the 'ferro' bit rusting away.

 

Regardless of the rust status of the steel reinforcing they still have the same mooring fees, insurance and maintenance costs so nobody in their right mind would ever buy one. This means if you already own one, you probably won't even be able to give it away. As scrapping one will cost you an arm and leg in waste disposal costs, the value of most of them is actually negative.   

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Anything made from ferro-concrete has a massive drawback which nobody has actually explained so far. Nobody wants them because they fear the 'ferro' bit rusting away.

 

Regardless of the rust status of the steel reinforcing they still have the same mooring fees, insurance and maintenance costs so nobody in their right mind would ever buy one. This means if you already own one, you probably won't even be able to give it away. As scrapping one will cost you an arm and leg in waste disposal costs, the value of most of them is actually negative.   

 

 

Does that rusting taste like ferrero rocher?

Edited by mark99
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1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Anything made from ferro-concrete has a massive drawback which nobody has actually explained so far. Nobody wants them because they fear the 'ferro' bit rusting away.

 

Regardless of the rust status of the steel reinforcing they still have the same mooring fees, insurance and maintenance costs so nobody in their right mind would ever buy one. This means if you already own one, you probably won't even be able to give it away. As scrapping one will cost you an arm and leg in waste disposal costs, the value of most of them is actually negative.   

 

 

Thank you for the explanation.......I’m learning.......slow but sure

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The Ferro cement boats could be made at home - I believe you could buy the instructions and away you went.

These are the ones to be wary of.

 

The only ferro cements boats you can get insured are, I believe, ones that were built by approved builders (approved by Lloyds of London).

 

They can be good, very strong boats, the problem is spotting and knowing the bad's ones.

Edited by NewCanalBoy
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2 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

So it will be, practically always.

 

Do you have to take a salt water boat out every winter, my mate does with his motor sailer?

You don't have to no. But they need antifouling every couple of years, some every year depending on where your boat is kept.

 

Never heard of them being taken out of the water purely to be 'dried out'.

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