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ASupertramp

New Student Boater (Nearly)

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1 minute ago, Alastair said:

Sod the bss, adding an rcd is just about personal safety

Correct, the BSS is not supposed to be about 'personal' safety, or 'boat safety' it is about the safety of people passing the boat walking on the towpath, or, the safety of other boats near by.

 

 

The BSS 'Mission Statement"

 

Its purpose is to help minimise the risk of boat fires, explosions, or pollution harming visitors to the inland waterways, the waterways' workforce and any other users.

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1 hour ago, Alastair said:

Sod the bss, adding an rcd is just about personal safety

Agreed but I also get pee'd off when someone tells me its a regulation and you will fail if you dont do it, when really its a personal choice.

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25 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Agreed but I also get pee'd off when someone tells me its a regulation and you will fail if you dont do it, when really its a personal choice.

Which was the actual case I had.

The surveyor 'failed' the boat because it did not have an RCD - eventually got it sorted out and a formal complaint to the BSS management.

Examiners are supposed to know, and, follow the rules, not make them up to suit themselves.

  • Greenie 1

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On 07/06/2020 at 12:37, Alan de Enfield said:

An RCD is not required to meet the BSS, (but it is an advisory), not having one is not a fail.

But a consumer unit is, unless the shore power inlet has an inline MCB or RCBO (I’m not sure I’ve ever seen such a thing). So as you have to have a CU, you might as well have one containing an RCD such as that little garage unit. 

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32 minutes ago, WotEver said:

But a consumer unit is, unless the shore power inlet has an inline MCB or RCBO (I’m not sure I’ve ever seen such a thing). So as you have to have a CU, you might as well have one containing an RCD such as that little garage unit. 

Indeed if you have CU then you might as well.

The boat that failed its BSS was a little 30 footer where the total AC circuit consisted of a single 13a socket  which was fed directly by the incoming shore-line (in effect it was mounted on the back (inside of the rear bulkhead) of the 'blue-plug'.

 

You simply decided what you wanted plugging into the socket (battery charger, or fan)

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34 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The boat that failed its BSS was a little 30 footer where the total AC circuit consisted of a single 13a socket  which was fed directly by the incoming shore-line (in effect it was mounted on the back (inside of the rear bulkhead) of the 'blue-plug'.

Ahhh... in that case I can see where the examiner was coming from (although he was still kinda wrong). If you have a shore power inlet then you must have a CU unless (from 9.2)...

 

NOTE – for the purpose of this check residual current breakers with overcurrent protection (RCBOs) may be considered an acceptable alternative to a consumer unit.
NOTE – in cases where the only power source is via a shore‐power lead, an acceptable alternative to a consumer unit is a MCB or RCBO incorporated within the lead.

 

So as you had none of the above he was right to fail it. 

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9 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Ahhh... in that case I can see where the examiner was coming from (although he was still kinda wrong). If you have a shore power inlet then you must have a CU unless (from 9.2)...

 

NOTE – for the purpose of this check residual current breakers with overcurrent protection (RCBOs) may be considered an acceptable alternative to a consumer unit.
NOTE – in cases where the only power source is via a shore‐power lead, an acceptable alternative to a consumer unit is a MCB or RCBO incorporated within the lead.

 

So as you had none of the above he was right to fail it. 

The use of a consumer unit was 'Advisory'

 

3.9.2 Do all a.c. electrical circuits pass through a consumer unit?      A
Check that all a.c. electrical circuits pass through a consumer unit (also known as fuse/circuit-breaker box or distribution board).
All a.c. circuits must pass through a consumer unit.
Applicability - examiners are encouraged to confirm during prior dealings with the owner, the location of the consumer unit.
Advice for owners – it is strongly advised that a Residual Current Device (RCD) is installed to provide appropriate electric shock protection on a.c. systems.
Applicability – for the purpose of this check residual current breakers with overcurrent protection (RCBOs) may be considered an acceptable alternative to a consumer unit.
Applicability – in cases where the only power source is via a shore-power lead, an acceptable alternative to a consumer unit is a MCB or RCBO incorporated within the lead.

 

 

The BSS 'office' agreed with me that in effect it was simply an 'extension lead' and did not require a CU and said that they would remind the examiner and ensure that on his next 'refresher' that he was up to date with the requirements.

 

 

Here it is 'in the flesh'

 

 

 

Screenshot (220).png

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The use of a consumer unit was 'Advisory'

Oh yeah, I missed the little A. By the looks of it all the AC stuff is advisory (but I only skimmed so might have missed something important). 

  • Happy 1

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Just now, WotEver said:

Oh yeah, I missed the little A. By the looks of it all the AC stuff is advisory (but I only skimmed so might have missed something important). 

Yup - its even only 'advisory' to ensure that you cannot have two 230v AC sources connected at the same time.

 

It does pay to read the rules so when examiner makes them up you can challenge them.

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On 09/02/2020 at 00:23, dmr said:

I was never quite sure about Caravan. Yes did some good stuff but went a bit silly, Pink Floyd were much better. Beatles were important at the time, but I never listen to their stuff anymore, the Stones were better, especially Sticky Fingers and Exile on Main street.  The more obscure stuff was even better, Roy Harper, Incredible String Band etc etc

 

..............Dave

God i cant believe there is another incredible string band fan.. my late husbands best friend was Robin from the band and we were very lucky to meet some interesting musicians through him.  

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42 minutes ago, tagulablue said:

God i cant believe there is another incredible string band fan.. my late husbands best friend was Robin from the band and we were very lucky to meet some interesting musicians through him.  

Considering they were a bit niche rather than mainstream I am surprised at just how many fans they still have, and if you use Spotify to find random new stuff for you I reckon you will find a few young bands who have very obvious ISB influences. I saw them twice on their getting back together tour, at the Brook in Southampton they described themselves as an ISB tribute band who just happen to have a few original members 🙂.

 

.................Dave

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Yes i remember the reunion tours.. i sat next to Robert Plant at the one in London...and the one in Edinburgh or Glasgow  i managed to  knock Billy Connelly on to the floor.  Clive Palmer died a few years ago.  

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On 27/05/2020 at 20:32, ASupertramp said:

Good Evening!
 

I am now well into ‘worse before it gets better’ zone. I have pretty much demolished the rear half of the boat, removing the three interior bulkheads as the plan was always for a walk through bathroom and study. When I removed the shower, the sub floor was rotten and bilge rusty so I stripped everything back to metal, fixed the rust and I am now in the process of insulating and fitting a new sub floor. I’ve bought 18mm marine ply, collecting that tomorrow. 
 

I would like some pointers if possible about the best order to complete things from this point onwards. I have a joiner lined up to build the bulkheads and bed/office, but what should I be doing first. I thought installing any wires for electrics/lights/sockets, then the central heating pipes, plumbing then joinery? 

I’m also suffering from information overload so go easy on me!

 

 

 

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Hi, Apologies for butting in half way through a thread.

I have just seen this and as I am about to to pull my floor up was wondering what you used on the rust?

I am expecting the worst (and hoping for something better) so thought while the floor is up I will clean the bilge, treat the rust and paint over.

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I'm a fan of not putting all the wiring and plumbing behind the joinery. 

Living aboard puts a lot more load on both (and you might want to change lighting). If it is all boxed away, then it is a real problem fixing issues or making alterations.

Make sure that all plumbing runs and wiring is accessible without ripping out tongue and groove or cupboards.

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On 14/06/2020 at 18:27, RS_Pete said:

Hi, Apologies for butting in half way through a thread.

I have just seen this and as I am about to to pull my floor up was wondering what you used on the rust?

I am expecting the worst (and hoping for something better) so thought while the floor is up I will clean the bilge, treat the rust and paint over.


Hi Pete,

I scraped away any loose rust, then wire brushed, rust converter (initially toolstation’s own, ran out so got kurust) then two coats of hammerite black metal paint. 
I looked at what to use prior to doing it and you’ll find 15 different answers and could research for days so I just got on with it. 
Good luck!

On 15/06/2020 at 07:31, Alastair said:

I'm a fan of not putting all the wiring and plumbing behind the joinery. 

Living aboard puts a lot more load on both (and you might want to change lighting). If it is all boxed away, then it is a real problem fixing issues or making alterations.

Make sure that all plumbing runs and wiring is accessible without ripping out tongue and groove or cupboards.

Only thing that will be behind the joinery are the pipes coming in from the calorifier that will be housed under the bed (but accessible). I’m boxing in the pipe runs with easy access and electrics will run either just under or inside the gunnel but again, with access. 

Edited by ASupertramp

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This is where I’m currently at:

Started cutting the sub floor but need to brace it somehow along the swim as it bows slightly. Not sure how to do that. Sides have been insulated. 

Progress feels very slow now as I’ve had weeks of dismantling rather than putting back together. 

85C84966-0693-4B75-8087-4E7329B414E5.jpeg

1FD79693-12A9-4CEB-90A2-BCC9B9A7DB0E.jpeg

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Also removed the old 50L? Calorifier and checked to see if the new 75L would fit. It does. Just. 
Need to sort the rust out first before fitting properly. 

B63B6236-C7AF-4FE1-973E-24BE0B54AB91.jpeg

2473A102-A28F-4FE5-AB87-E28A8EBC7785.jpeg

5AEBB022-3D9A-4AD7-B4BD-7DD838EE9E3F.jpeg

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On 19/06/2020 at 09:49, ASupertramp said:


Hi Pete,

I scraped away any loose rust, then wire brushed, rust converter (initially toolstation’s own, ran out so got kurust) then two coats of hammerite black metal paint. 
I looked at what to use prior to doing it and you’ll find 15 different answers and could research for days so I just got on with it. 
Good luck!

Hi, 

Feel like I've researched for months now! Definitely get the feeling everyone has their own individual preferences. We have a 1Lt bottle of Fertan however the main one will be 5 Lt Aquasteel. Only time will tell if we made the right decision.

Still undecided what to overcoat with, we have been recommended bitumen by a local boatyard however I am not sure I am that keen... probably the thought of working with it....

 

Anyway my next question is did you treat your floor battens and flooring with anything to help preserve them? Again any recommendations?

As ours has wooden superstructure this won't just be an issue for the floor.

 

Many thanks

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2 minutes ago, RS_Pete said:

Again any recommendations?

As ours has wooden superstructure this won't just be an issue for the floor.

To avoid any problems in the future, it could be a good time to replace the old wooden-top with a steel one. Future maintenance will be way, way, less, and water leaks will be a thing of the past.

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5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

To avoid any problems in the future, it could be a good time to replace the old wooden-top with a steel one. Future maintenance will be way, way, less, and water leaks will be a thing of the past.

Hi Alan,

Thanks.

True, and that probably would be my choice. 

Unfortunately I think that is currently ruled out on a cost basis. Just looking at steel prices for 2m X 1m sheets in 3mm makes me think that the superstructure on a 64ft boat wont be cheap or easy especially as it is on the water at the moment.

Maybe in the future.....

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