installing a twin coil calorifier HELP!! please

[alan_fincher]

2 minutes ago, jayeddi said:

the diagram of the cylinder is what telford can only match it up to its not the actual one they have shown only said its very simaler 

Forget what Telford has sent you, and concentrate on what you actually have.

 

Does the label on your actual cylinder say 1.5 bar?  - I think it does, but it is indistinct.

 

If it does you would have to use a pump (and a PRV) rated less than 1.5 bar, or risk that cylinder damaging.

 

It is likely that this could result in very slow flow rates at taps or showers.

Your call!

 

If it does say 1.5 bar, and you use with pumps and PRV rated at more than that, there is a very good chance it will fail, whatever anybody else tells you.  If for example you use a 3 bar prv (pretty normal on boats) you could be subjecting the cyliber to twice its design pressure.

[jayeddi]

its says max working pressure is 3.5 think I have a better picture on here I think from your advise and what you  have said Im going to take the route of just fitting all the rads up and hot and cold and were the tank sits in the eninge bay just let someone else to look at it ive got a feeling its going to cause more trouble then its worth and its not going to be nice for customer if its gos wrong at least I not be to blame sounds like people have  had a few problems with doing theses be wise just to leave the tank for someone who nos more about them 

[alan_fincher]

That clearly says 3.5 bar.

 

I'd say ignore all those concerns about maximum working pressure, and go ahead and fit.

 

Plumb it as per the diagram on the web page I linked to.

 

It's odd though that at first sight the Telford web-sight seems not to list boat calorifiers.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

49 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

That clearly says 3.5 bar.

 

I'd say ignore all those concerns about maximum working pressure, and go ahead and fit.

 

Plumb it as per the diagram on the web page I linked to.

 

It's odd though that at first sight the Telford web-sight seems not to list boat calorifiers.

Possible that Telford used to make marine cauliflowers, but decided to leave the market? This could have been old stock acquired somehow. Hence no mention on their web site and little help from the company if the wrong person answered the query. If is says 3.5 bar, then I agree. Go ahead with it.

Jen

[Tony Brooks]

The "Grade 1" is plain enough on the label and I knew the grade related to the pressure it is designed to accept. A bit of googling shows grade 1 as 25 meters head and that equated to about 35 psi so I think it is definitely an indirect vented domestic cylinder. (we used to fit Grade 1as calorifiers on the hire fleet but did set a low pump pressure).

 

Edited to add - in those days we had centrifugal domestic water pumps that provided a high volume but at a lower pressure so the domestic cylinders were OK. The pumps also had an accumulator/expansion bladder in them.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Tony Brooks

[Onewheeler]

It clearly says primary side max 3.5 bar and working head (presumably secondary) 10 m (1 bar). I'd take that as engine side 3 bar and domestic side 1 bar. Heat usually flows from primary to secondary.

[alan_fincher]

Scrub everything I have just said...

 

I should have looked more closely.

 

What it actually says is....

 

Max permissable pressure of primary water heater 3.5 bar.

 

I reckon that's saying that the heating coil is good for 3.5 bar, not the cylinder itself.

 

I've reversed back to thinking it is not rated for the pressures put out by many pumps for marine domestic water systems.

 

Sorry to confuse!

3 minutes ago, Onewheeler said:

It clearly says primary side max 3.5 bar and working head (presumably secondary) 10 m (1 bar). I'd take that as engine side 3 bar and domestic side 1 bar. Heat usually flows from primary to secondary.

I cross posted with you, but yes I agree.

 

Again I should have looked more closely.

 

Strictly only good for about 1 bar - so not suitable, I now again say.

[Ex Brummie]

2 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

 

 up to temperature and eliminate 'dead legs

Max permissable pressure of primary water heater 3.5 bar.

 

I reckon that's saying that the heating coil is good for 3.5 bar, not the cylinder itself.

 

 

Alan is right, this is the coil rating.

Grade 1 is good for little more than 15 psi, grade 2, 30 psi. Both of these would only normally be indirect cylinders, i.e fed from a header tank. Boat systems are direct, and need to cope with pump pressure, plus a little more for when the water is heated and expanded, hence the fitting of PRV's.

The mysterious fitting points may well be for fitting a DHW circulator used to keep the supply pipework up to temperature and eliminate dead legs on large buildings

[Tony Brooks]

And now there is a better photo you can see a 1 has been stuck over the 3 in the grade. I would    go by grade 3 which is if I remember 10m of head, not the 25m for grade 1

[jayeddi]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

And now there is a better photo you can see a 1 has been stuck over the 3 in the grade. I would    go by grade 3 which is if I remember 10m of head, not the 25m for grade 1

intresting it does look like theres a 1 been stuck over the 3 I will pull that off on Saturday now and if theres a 3 behind it im just going to leave it to someone else because who ever fitted it is tryin to cover something up id say 

[jayeddi]

26 minutes ago, jayeddi said:

intresting it does look like theres a 1 been stuck over the 3 I will pull that off on Saturday now and if theres a 3 behind it im just going to leave it to someone else because who ever fitted it is tryin to cover something up id say 

I find it a bit ironic how they have seemed to cover up all the details about the tank witch makes me suspect who ever fitted it may be tryin to cover something up I reckons its going to be more trouble then its worth 

[jayeddi]

enough of tanks ive made my mind up not even going to attempt fitting cylinder now thanks for the advise but on another note the kitchen looks good don't it 

 

[redwing]

Looks good Jay. Can't tell if that is the stern up your steps.  If so, there maybe an issue with draining board not draining properly

[jayeddi]

9 hours ago, redwing said:

Looks good Jay. Can't tell if that is the stern up your steps.  If so, there maybe an issue with draining board not draining properly

I hate to say it but your right guessing when the boats in the water now the water is going to just keep draining onto the worktop surpriseing what you learn thanks for the info will set to turn that round now thanks 

[Kingdom Isambard Brunel]

Its not a reversible  sink top! If the boat is ballasted properly, level, it should drain.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 hour ago, jayeddi said:

I hate to say it but your right guessing when the boats in the water now the water is going to just keep draining onto the worktop surpriseing what you learn thanks for the info will set to turn that round now thanks 

I did that too! The draining area just needs a bit of mopping up after the washing up is dried and put away.

Jen

[jayeddi]

25 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Its not a reversible  sink top! If the boat is ballasted properly, level, it should drain.

it ist I think that's why we just put it in that way but it is defentley worth lookin at again id like to think that the floor is going to be pretty level but surpose if it does just means changing thanks again will keep some posts comeing as moveing on doing more on the boat always intresting to see if from someone elses perspective just a quick question tho the waste for the sink and the bath im guessing they have to be pumped out of them waste holes drilled threw the hull 

surpose theres one good point from this can do the pots from out side now lol 

[WotEver]

4 minutes ago, jayeddi said:

the waste for the sink and the bath im guessing they have to be pumped out of them waste holes drilled threw the hull 

A sink and basin normally exit through gravity to a hull fitting. A shower or bath is generally plumbed with a Whale Gulper. 

[jayeddi]

55 minutes ago, WotEver said:

A sink and basin normally exit through gravity to a hull fitting. A shower or bath is generally plumbed with a Whale Gulper. 

the shower room as got one aswell half way up all I was thinking is there a better way to get waste out as it looks slighty unsightly ill get some pics for Saturday kitcken ones not a problem because its behind the work units and cant be seen but bathroom one will be seen unless some sort of boxing in is made thanks

[WotEver]

8 minutes ago, jayeddi said:

the shower room as got one aswell half way up all I was thinking is there a better way to get waste out as it looks slighty unsightly ill get some pics for Saturday kitcken ones not a problem because its behind the work units and cant be seen but bathroom one will be seen unless some sort of boxing in is made thanks

From bottom of shower tray you run a hose to a Whale Gulper inside an adjacent cupboard. The output of that pump goes to a skin fitting behind the wall panelling or inside a cupboard. That’s the usual way. 

[Kingdom Isambard Brunel]

Sink should be high enough to not need a pump if you use solvent welded pipe that cannot come apart.  

Edited September 11, 2019 by Boater Sam

[jayeddi]

I was thinking in a cuboard but the bath that's going makes the waste out rite in the way 

[WotEver]

44 minutes ago, jayeddi said:

I was thinking in a cuboard but the bath that's going makes the waste out rite in the way 

Bath? Do you have a million gallon water tank and your own personal tap for filling it up?

[jayeddi]

well as you know it is for a customer so has normall just do as they ask I did wonder a shower might be better its something I can put to them but makes sense 

[Sea Dog]

4 hours ago, WotEver said:

Bath? Do you have a million gallon water tank and your own personal tap for filling it up?

This is really a house in a floating metal box rather than a boat, isn't it?