Why are the canal magazines so crap?

[carlt]

Is this stutter somthing to do with the problems the forum's had today?

[honey ryder]

there is a company that is forging the way with web based magazines,

 

it recently bought TWO magazine ( another motorbike magazine) and they also acquired one of the most popular motorbike forums called visordown. its paired the two together and whilst this initially upset the applecart a bit with the forum members... as we all know forum members can be a bit tetchy or trying at times.. well it seems to be doing ok. its early days yet though.

 

we dont go to rallys... ive never been to a motorbike one. only an off roading one and that wasnt exactly t-shirt weather

[adam1uk]

There are a lot of young boaters in London, we're young-ish (that side of 40, anyway), but the younger boaters I know don't appear to me to be magazine buyers, I just don't think they'd bother. I like mags, that's why I buy the canal ones.

 

I work in radio, and we have similar discussions about how to get a younger audience. Obviously magazines and radio stations want to appeal to as many people as possible, and a situation where your readers or listeners are literally dying is eventually going to leave you with a problem. We all have to adapt to cope with that (without putting off too many of the existing readers or listeners), and not to do so would be foolish.

 

However, it's also quite clear that people's tastes change as they get older, and it's possible for people to grow into your product. For example, I didn't listen to Radio 4 ten years ago, but I do now; the young boaters you know might not buy magazines now, but they might when they reach a certain age.

[Lady Muck]

I work in radio, and we have similar discussions about how to get a younger audience. Obviously magazines and radio stations want to appeal to as many people as possible, and a situation where your readers or listeners are literally dying is eventually going to leave you with a problem. We all have to adapt to cope with that (without putting off too many of the existing readers or listeners), and not to do so would be foolish.

 

However, it's also quite clear that people's tastes change as they get older, and it's possible for people to grow into your product. For example, I didn't listen to Radio 4 ten years ago, but I do now; the young boaters you know might not buy magazines now, but they might when they reach a certain age.

 

 

Hahahah! So true - I never even bothered with Radio 4 until I got the boat. I listen to it constantly! It used to be just Pirate radio for me, today I was listening to the phone in about Irritable Bowel Syndrome.

[tomsk]

<--- does it look like it?

 

That's a great idea. Funnily enough... we did that two months ago.

 

Interesting post, though. Which (IPC, evidently) magazine do you work on?

 

I think it's pretty evident that CWF readers are on average younger, and more hands-on, than the average for the waterways. I see a lot more people of my own age here than I ever do when I'm out on the canal. There might be room for a magazine that caters unashamedly for the younger end of the market, but given that WW has been around for 35 years and is in some ways "the establishment", it's never going to be us. That said, I wouldn't want us to be too old-farty, either...

 

You have a beard chap, it might not be visible to all, but to those of us 'in the know' it's obvious,

Edited August 30, 2007 by tomsk

[tony collins]

yes i was going through the archives for our 30th year special and i found a naked woman, smoking on a motorbike, it may even have been pink as the main colour plate, dont think you can get more politically incorrect than that for a FRONT cover. I dont know how it wasnt top shelved...

If you go back far enough, WW and CRB both had "pin ups" decorating the boats. I do recall one topless woman pictured steering a boat in WW, It was a readers photo, but they still printed it! Comparing the two issues that Richard illustrated, I prefer the older version, articles to get your teeth into, with lots of detail. But then you do need slightly more concentration power than a goldfish to appreciate them.

 

I have just cancelled my subscription to Canal Boat as it is getting too much like the Daily Star in layout (not content of course). But I am reminded of the quote offered by Dolly Parton "it cost a lot of money to look this cheap" She could have been talking about Canal Boat!"

 

Tony.

[tony collins]

sorry triple post for some reason

Edited August 31, 2007 by tony collins

[tony collins]

And again!

Edited August 31, 2007 by tony collins

[WillR]

Oh, we do jokes fairly often...

 

I kind of get the impression I'm repeating myself here. We have a five/six page shiny boat test every issue, just that. That isn't produced to cater for the advertisers, but even if you don't believe me, that still leaves 70-odd other pages to explain away.

And maybe some are being implemented; WW's changed a lot in the last two years and will continue to do so. And maybe some others I will continue to try my best to do, but actually finding someone who can write coherently about Springers, and take decent pictures, is harder than it looks!

 

But, like I've said before, we have 17,000 buyers already - in UK sales, more than any other canal magazine, but also more than the sea-going motorboating magazines too. If we were to suddenly change to Maverick Monthly, most of those - who do like the magazine, that's why they buy it - would wonder where all their favourite features have gone, and stop buying it.

 

Sorry, I realise I'm sounding exasperated and I'm not meaning to take it out on you in particular. But I do, really, really object to the assumption that "it's not for me" automatically means "it's crap". I mean, I don't read the Times, the Telegraph, any car magazines, or, say, the London Review of Books. Are they therefore automatically "crap"?

 

So - some suggestions for Waterways World:

 

How to make fenders

Repacking stern glands

Fitting a bathroom or galley

Installing an inverter

Adding a second alternator

Wiring tips and tricks

Maintaining central heating

Comparative reviews of bilge pumps / batteries / etc etc

How to do a good paint job

Fixing window leaks

 

These are just off the top of my head. I'm sure others will come up with other suggestions.

 

I would also like to see (in common with others on the forum) reviews of low budget fit-outs.

 

Any other suggestions?

[carlt]

So - some suggestions for Waterways World:

 

How to make fenders

Repacking stern glands

Fitting a bathroom or galley

Installing an inverter

Adding a second alternator

Wiring tips and tricks

Maintaining central heating

Comparative reviews of bilge pumps / batteries / etc etc

How to do a good paint job

Fixing window leaks

 

These are just off the top of my head. I'm sure others will come up with other suggestions.

 

I would also like to see (in common with others on the forum) reviews of low budget fit-outs.

 

Any other suggestions?

Galvanic Isolator -saint or sinner?

[wrigglefingers]

And again!

 

 

Tony,

 

I couldn't fail to be amused by your inadvertent repeated posts and your signature thingy, sorry!

 

Anyway, back on topic, I could do some utterly twee articles on canal needlecraft.. I'm currently in full sock-knitting mode for winter but could do some stuff on crochet your own narrowboat and quilt with roses and castles, that sort of stuff. Thinking about submitting to WW too ........

 

Shep

 

(not entirely joking either!)

[tony collins]

Tony,

 

I couldn't fail to be amused by your inadvertent repeated posts and your signature thingy, sorry!

 

When my first attempt to post failed, I tried again, then again. Then I gave up and went to bed. Only to find the next morning that the same message had been posted three times! I blame the computer boffins myself!

 

With regard to my signature, I picked that up some fifty years ago when I first started work. It is as true (perhaps even truer) now as it was then.

 

Tony.

[Mike George]

So - some suggestions for Waterways World:

 

How to make fenders

Repacking stern glands

Fitting a bathroom or galley

Installing an inverter

Adding a second alternator

Wiring tips and tricks

Maintaining central heating

Comparative reviews of bilge pumps / batteries / etc etc

How to do a good paint job

Fixing window leaks

 

These are just off the top of my head. I'm sure others will come up with other suggestions.

 

I would also like to see (in common with others on the forum) reviews of low budget fit-outs.

 

Any other suggestions?

 

Any/all of the above, withouth taking up half the article space with product photos and marketing blurb provided by the manufacturer.

[saltysplash]

Have you stopped sending a photographer to rallies then. One of my biggest shocks was taking a girlfriend to a rally (dragon iirc) when a press snapper appeared and she (normally the one shocked at my behaviour) pulled up her t-shirt, along with a hundred or so other girlies.

 

 

She wasnt on a boat the other week flashing at chris jw was she?

[fender]

So - some suggestions for Waterways World:

 

How to make fenders

Repacking stern glands

Fitting a bathroom or galley

Installing an inverter

Adding a second alternator

Wiring tips and tricks

Maintaining central heating

Comparative reviews of bilge pumps / batteries / etc etc

How to do a good paint job

Fixing window leaks

 

These are just off the top of my head. I'm sure others will come up with other suggestions.

 

I would also like to see (in common with others on the forum) reviews of low budget fit-outs.

 

Any other suggestions?

 

How about an article on the best ways to dispose of the magazine?

 

Better still dont buy and save the environment!

[saltysplash]

How about an article on the best ways to dispose of the magazine?

 

Better still dont buy and save the environment!

 

 

Firelighters?

[Sir Nibble]

Waterways magazines aren't "crap", but I don't buy them because....

In my current circumstances most of the waterways featured are so far away at 4mph, they might as well be mars.

There is too much focus on making it possible for people (who really should stay at home) to take their home cinema, jacuzzi and the national grid boating.

The very, very high cover price.

[Maverick]

How about an article on the best ways to dispose of the magazine?Better still dont buy and save the environment!

If you have enough of em put them in carrier bags and use them for ballast up front in a fibreglass boat.

So - some suggestions for Waterways World:How to make fendersRepacking stern glandsFitting a bathroom or galleyInstalling an inverterAdding a second alternatorWiring tips and tricksMaintaining central heatingComparative reviews of bilge pumps / batteries / etc etcHow to do a good paint jobFixing window leaksThese are just off the top of my head. I'm sure others will come up with other suggestions.I would also like to see (in common with others on the forum) reviews of low budget fit-outs.Any other suggestions?

Very good. Richard asked for suggestions and if any of the excellent suggestions above are to be featured then please let me know and I will be delighted to purchase a copy and read something of interest.

[onthecut]

The thing that really amused me, until I gave up on the mags, was the singularly uncritical nature, generally, of the new boat reviews I seemed to see. Leaks, bare or duff wiring, less than wonderful woodwork, poor finish in enclosed places, noise, vibration etc., etc. Any one or combination of these always seemd to get off with a 'well for only 50 grand (or whatever), it's really not a bad boat'.

I understand the mags are keen not to lose their advertisers, but such easy going reviews are just a joke. If I go and spend 50k on a new car, just one of the above issues would lead to howls of derision in the motoring press -- and rightly so. Must say as well, got tired of the endless previews of Crick, reports on the day of Crick, post Crick analysis, what to look forward to at the next Crick -- ad infinitum.

 

Mike.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Well, there's an easy difference there. We deliberately only review the good boats, because narrowboats are largely bespoke and there simply isn't space, or time, to review every one. The car magazines review every car, because cars are production-line items.

 

In addition, only half, if that, of the function of our reviews is actually assessing whether or not a particular boat is worth buying. What we aim to do is look at the boat design and the owners' ideas, so that others buying a boat, or refitting their own one, can pick and choose suggestions for their own boats. That's why when I arrived at WW I introduced a little "Bright Ideas" boxout in the boat reviews, something I see Canal Boat is now also doing. That doesn't work for car magazines, not unless you're building our own car.

 

FWIW the main reason I don't buy car magazines these days is actually their reviews. (I used to buy Car as a teenager, in the days when it had decent writing and wasn't just yet another review sheet.) I am absolutely delighted with my car - so much so that we bought a second, identical one for my wife (ok, different colour). All the car magazines pan it, and most of its siblings, because, apparently, it's not a "drivers' car". Meanwhile, they salivate all over the latest 37-litre get-out-of-my-way Audi monstrosities, the ones that cut me up on the M42 in the morning (I don't think that's a production-line feature, but can't be sure). Well, pardon me for having the temerity to want something that isn't a Clarkson-like ego massager.

 

And, in this case at least, their long-term assessments seem to be based more on hearsay than anything else... but that's another story.

 

As for boat shows, yes, I think the waterway magazines have sometimes been guilty of that. I try to strike a balance: for the National, we do a two-page preview, then a report; for Crick, we do a two-page preview, then a brief synopsis, then a full report. It's certainly less than has been done in some magazines. If I could get it down to the essentials by cutting the middle Crick report out, I would, but unfortunately our deadlines don't permit the full report to be ready in time.

 

WillR's suggestions: some excellent ones there. Thank you. Funnily enough at least one of them we were already working on! I'd just repeat one thing I said earlier in the thread: decent waterway writers are hard to come by; if anyone here thinks they can tell the WW readership a thing or two, and wouldn't mind a few bob doing so, drop me a line.

Edited September 3, 2007 by Richard Fairhurst

[onthecut]

Thanks for the rationale behind the review system -- and I do take on board (no pun intended) what you say --- and I must put my hands up to not having looked at the mags for a couple of years. I do stand by my point, however, that some of the things I've seen pretty lightly dismissed are inexcusable at the prices being charged; arguably the more so as these are, as you point out, mostly bespoke creations.

I suppose to be fair, I'd better buy a current copy of your esteemed organ and see what I think now !

 

Mike.

[tomsk]

Well, there's an easy difference there. We deliberately only review the good boats, because narrowboats are largely bespoke and there simply isn't space, or time, to review every one. The car magazines review every car, because cars are production-line items.

 

In addition, only half, if that, of the function of our reviews is actually assessing whether or not a particular boat is worth buying. What we aim to do is look at the boat design and the owners' ideas, so that others buying a boat, or refitting their own one, can pick and choose suggestions for their own boats. That's why when I arrived at WW I introduced a little "Bright Ideas" boxout in the boat reviews, something I see Canal Boat is now also doing. That doesn't work for car magazines, not unless you're building our own car.

 

FWIW the main reason I don't buy car magazines these days is actually their reviews. (I used to buy Car as a teenager, in the days when it had decent writing and wasn't just yet another review sheet.) I am absolutely delighted with my car - so much so that we bought a second, identical one for my wife (ok, different colour). All the car magazines pan it, and most of its siblings, because, apparently, it's not a "drivers' car". Meanwhile, they salivate all over the latest 37-litre get-out-of-my-way Audi monstrosities, the ones that cut me up on the M42 in the morning (I don't think that's a production-line feature, but can't be sure). Well, pardon me for having the temerity to want something that isn't a Clarkson-like ego massager.

 

And, in this case at least, their long-term assessments seem to be based more on hearsay than anything else... but that's another story.

 

As for boat shows, yes, I think the waterway magazines have sometimes been guilty of that. I try to strike a balance: for the National, we do a two-page preview, then a report; for Crick, we do a two-page preview, then a brief synopsis, then a full report. It's certainly less than has been done in some magazines. If I could get it down to the essentials by cutting the middle Crick report out, I would, but unfortunately our deadlines don't permit the full report to be ready in time.

 

WillR's suggestions: some excellent ones there. Thank you. Funnily enough at least one of them we were already working on! I'd just repeat one thing I said earlier in the thread: decent waterway writers are hard to come by; if anyone here thinks they can tell the WW readership a thing or two, and wouldn't mind a few bob doing so, drop me a line.

 

 

Not a problem. Presumably NUJ scale rates apply, or are you looking for cheap copy??

Edited September 6, 2007 by tomsk

[adam1uk]

Not a problem. Presumably NUJ scale rates apply, or are you looking for cheap copy??

 

NUJ rates would only apply to those of us in the NUJ. And the rates aren't binding anyway.

[PeterG]

I came to this thread a little late but I read WW and CB and have done for some time now. This is because usually I find something of interest and not because it is a chore.

 

In canal terms I have had holidays on them from when I was a teenager and now my two children (5 and 8 years) come along too without too much fuss as they enjoy it. My 8 year old reads some of the magazines also and my 5 year old recognises some of the pictures.

 

Personally I like the idea of Practical canalboat and the new section in WW is very useful. This forum also gives a very immediate response to posts, much quicker than a monthly magazine can ever do.

 

People should be very grateful (I have my tin hat on now) that we have decent waterways press as this does encourage new people to get involved as well as the more war weary people that post here. When I started there was a lot of older people that owned and used canal boats but that does seem to be changing with new people getting involved. We need new people otherwise canals will drop out of the general public view and return to their previous poor state.

 

How do new people get to understand the canals without magazines like WW and CB? These must help.

 

If we start to make some positive suggestions to the editors then perhaps we will be surprised about adoption of some of them and if we can write a useful article or two then who knows we might be able to afford at least a part of the latest repair kit to keep our boat a bit shiny?

[WillR]

I came to this thread a little late but I read WW and CB and have done for some time now. This is because usually I find something of interest and not because it is a chore.

 

In canal terms I have had holidays on them from when I was a teenager and now my two children (5 and 8 years) come along too without too much fuss as they enjoy it. My 8 year old reads some of the magazines also and my 5 year old recognises some of the pictures.

 

Personally I like the idea of Practical canalboat and the new section in WW is very useful. This forum also gives a very immediate response to posts, much quicker than a monthly magazine can ever do.

 

People should be very grateful (I have my tin hat on now) that we have decent waterways press as this does encourage new people to get involved as well as the more war weary people that post here. When I started there was a lot of older people that owned and used canal boats but that does seem to be changing with new people getting involved. We need new people otherwise canals will drop out of the general public view and return to their previous poor state.

 

How do new people get to understand the canals without magazines like WW and CB? These must help.

 

If we start to make some positive suggestions to the editors then perhaps we will be surprised about adoption of some of them and if we can write a useful article or two then who knows we might be able to afford at least a part of the latest repair kit to keep our boat a bit shiny?

Yes - We've hired for years, but this year, we've bought our own second hand boat (ex-hire). I have also recently been buying WW again. Right now, I find the articles fairly interesting, but I have the feeling that it won't be long before I find that repetition will exhaust that interest.

I am making various modifications to the boat and want to do some maintainance to the existing systems. However, there is very little detailed information to help. This is why personally, I'd like to see WW offering practical help in this area. I made some suggestions in an earlier post.

In particular, why are all the systems so difficult to get at? I wanted to run a new wire from front to back and the side panels are almost impossible to remove - not only lots of screws, but some parts are glued as well! I'm planning to put another radiator in, but the main pipes where I need to cut in are only accessed through an opening 3" by 6". It's as if, the electrical and plumbing systems are installed with the intention of then forgetting about them. Enough of my problems.....