Eeyore

Hello Bob Didn't want to post earlier as I have had some involvement with your starter on my day job; but most of the reseach was carried out looking for a spare for my own S4L2 engine. The starter that I ended up with has no useful markings or packaging labels what so ever! I just know that it came from the correct engine. The cross reference situation for the 3 mitsubishi part numbers I know to be aplicable to starters on that engine produces a baffling array of supposedly compatable starters; ranging from 1.4Kw to 2.2Kw in 13 and 15 tooth pinion sizes. The pinion size is less of an issue than the power of the motor; the pinion being simply in a slightly different place relitive to the starter mounting flange. The contractor undertaking the repair generaly uses reference numbers derived form the larger suppliers catalouges, so hopefuly you will get a number for your records; and the possibility of obtaining a spare to cruise with. The Vetus part has come down in price over the last couple of years; it used to have a four figure retail price! Steve (Eeyore)

The blue ones are usually Sole Mini 20 somethings. Quite a lot available on the Sole website (probably still a link on the diamond diesels site)

You can find the connection details on their website. Just navigate to the fuse holder section ; one of the pictures has the wiring superimposed on it. http://www.ripca.com/ Steve (Eeyore)

Yes, and the set screws holding it on can be alarmingly tight if it hasn't been off before. Mark both pullies with a marker pen so that you refit in the same position. The polyvee (flat) pulley will probably be very reluctant to come off; and require gentle persuasion with a nylon or hide faced mallet whilst turning it by hand. Clean the mating faces well before refitting the pulley. Applying some non chromate jointing paste (or at least some grease) to the mating faces will inhibit corrosion and make it easier next time. Steve (Eeyore)

The "3" stores have far more detailed coverage maps on their computer systems. Try to find postcodes for various locations on your chosen routes, and take them into your local "3"store to view on their coverage maps. I would not have gone with them based on their public coverage maps, but the in store system convinced me otherwise. Interesting comments on the "orange" backup, I think they may be "renting" space for their equipment on other providers masts; I've just returned from Tywyn (LL36 postcode) where the mast belongs to "orange" but still a "3" 3G signal. Could be something with the "works better with data sims" thing, certainly not quite as I expected when tethered to the phone, but still more than acceptable for the middle of nowhere! Steve (Eeyore)

Hi By'eck It was mentioned in post #10. I just get a warm feeling knowing that someone else thought of the same thing Steve (Eeyore)

Hi Monsoon No idea on 1 & 5. The answer to the underlined part of 4 is yes; and its causing 2 & 3. The Beta 175 amp alternators have been supplied with 14.8 volt regulators (there is a thread elsewhere on the forum).Shortly after starting you have the capacity to charge at 295 amps from the alternator and victrons combineded outputs. This will quite qickly raise the battery voltage above the victrons settings causing it to go into float (but effectively shut down in this instance). The alternator will of course continue to charge the batteries; but only if you allow it sufficient time to do so. Using the victron indicators to time the charging cycle may have led to a gradual reduction in state of charge over a period of time, which would in part explain the readings you are getting. Changing the victron setting (raising them) may be an option if you have wet lead acid batteries which can be maintained (topped up). However if you have sealed batteries this is not an option; and the higher voltage from the alternator will probably have reduced thier life already. Steve (Eeyore) Edited to add - wow! 4 other posts in the time it took me to type this; must go on that typing course sometime.

Thanks Nick I missed a few points whilst skimming the thread (late at night and stone cold sober - not recommended) So its a difference in inverter design; with the TP inverter stage being similar the the cheaper conventional inverters which output +120 volts AC on the "positive" terminal and - 120 volts AC on the "neutral" terminal (but which may or maynot be E bonded to mid potential; and we've all read the long running threads on N-E bonding of inverters!). I like the battery example, especialy as I have done the first part myself (at 110 volt), but no plans yet to try the last part. The fault does seem likely to be external to the TP. A faulty heating element, going down to earth when hot, seems a good candidate for this fault; as it fits the time scale. You would need an insulation tester for this; however running the washing machine for about 15 mins on shore supply, swithching it off and unpluging it, and using a multimeter between the disconnected elements and earth would probably show any fault. You would need to do some preparation such as leaving the back panel off so you can get to the elements quickly before any cooling takes place. Steve (Eeyore)

Now I'm a little puzzled by that Conventional inverter system = 12volt alternator (with internal rectifier & regulator), battery and invertor. TP system = alternator with 3 phase output and brushgear conected (via 5 core lead) to a box containing rectifiers, DC voltage regulator and inverter. Its all similar components in a different configuration, the only real difference is the absense of batteries and the DC voltage chosen by TP at the design stage. So I'm realy not sure why touching the output of one system is any more or less safe than touching the output of the other; or have I mistaken your point? Steve (Eeyore)

Good point. If you are paying someone to "faff about", make sure you get them to tell you what they found and what they are doing about it. Write it down, even if you don't understand it, the next person you callout may not need to learn the whole system at your expense before being able to effect a repair. A good "engineer" or "specialist" should be able to explain things in terms that you understand, you are paying for their time; make the most of it.

Hi SN Just looking at a spare alternator I note 1 x positive stud and a 3 pin grey connector with tacho,warning lamp and ignition feed. I rather simplistically thought the excitation was provided by the 12v ignition feed from the key switch, and that the warning light was switched on and off by the regulator? Anyway the technical stuff is interesting reading as ever. I am however puzzled at the OPs need to cure what they have already confirmed as normal. Perhaps looking at dual helm controls would be a way forward; this would allow the throttle to be "blipped" from a second controller within the boat? Steve (Eeyore)

Try comparing the HS2 maps to an ariel view of Great Haywood marina! The line passes through a house on the A51, crosses existing rail and canal, and then continues across the top of the "crossroads" on Mill Lane. (its not realy a crossroads as anyone with local knowledge will be aware). Anyway this puts the line of the track at best along the northern edge of the marina, with the embankment filling in approx the northern third of the marina! Its good to see that the planners had access to up to date mapping - not. Steve (Eeyore) PS It also puts the line some 300 metres from my bedroom window, and approx 10 to 12 metres above ground level; I will need to work on my reflexs if I want to get any train spotting done. Appologies to those that expect me to complain.

Hello Chris I'm sure that you are aware that the ignition key needs to be in the "on" position for the stop button to work. The "Beta" controller can be damaged by turning the ignition key to the "off" position whilst the engine is running; causing the output voltage of the alternator to go out of specification. There was a Beta modification involving a timer relay, which activated the stop solenoid if the ignition key was turned to "off" whilst the engine was running. The alternator with the controller attached does not have an internal regulator; just a brush assembly. If the controller is damaged the alternator can be rebuilt with a standard internal regulator; or just take it to your local motor factors to find a match. As a general rule - "simple equals more reliable"; and is far easier to fix if it does go wrong. Some voltage readings with the engine running would be useful before you invest in new batteries; and any chance of a photo? Steve (Eeyore)

Hi The 3000rpm Markon type alternators alternators do indeed have a messy output, which I have seen on an ociliscope. An interesting "feature" is that the off load frequency can often be read as 150Hz; ie a harmonic frequency is dominant when off load! Obviously 150Hz is far outside the operating range of the Victron unit. I have found that a small permanent load, such as 60watt table lamp is enough to suppress the harmonic frequency. Steve (Eeyore)

Just read the entire topic to find that you got there yourself! Yes the five main bearing 2 1/4 crank will give what you have, as it has a shorter throw. It can also be known as a 2.3, depending on which model it originated in. The blocks are basicaly the same; with variation in capacity achieved using different crank throw and conrod length. Be careful with hotspot projection as there may be some variation depending on gasket material; the original design used copper asbestos gaskets which are not generally available. Head over to a LR forum for more info.

Hi Steve The split charge relays (yes there are 2, and I don't know why) are very close to the starter motor on the main engine, or they were last time I was on the boat some years ago. They are the lucas type, about 1.5" cube. However I am more inclined to agree that the starter battery is life expired. There was (and probably still is), only one starter battery for the main engine and generator. A deccision taken by the then owner. I would strongly recommend a larger capacity battery, although you'll probably be limited to the taller 135ah (with higher cranking amps to turn the HRW3) in the space available. Obviously a separate battery for the generator should be concidered at the earlist opertunity. I may be wrong, but I thought I had connected the starter battery to the charger when I installed it (to replace a failed Mastervolt unit). There was a period of ownership between my involvement and you purchasing the boat, perhaps it was changed then? Certainly wouldn't have left them "just cut off". Steve (Eeyore)

I recall Ellis boilers being comimon on some hire boats; but not been available for along time. Steve

How about this: Isolate the two buss systems. Connect the Eco-Tech alternator to the house buss, and only to the house buss. Fit a DC to DC charger between the house buss and the frieghtliner buss The house battery charge rate is determined by the Eco-Tech regulator, and will go to float when fully charged. The DC to DC charger emulates a second alternator, and at is least the same output current as the factory fitted 36SI alternator. There are battery to battery (B-B-C?)chargers on the Sterling, Adverc and other sites; but these are usualy automatic and multi stage. You need a simple unit with something like 10 - 18 volt input and a fixed output voltage matching the Frieghtliner spec. Switch it on and off using a control relay fed from the Eco-Tech charge warning light circuit (consult Eco-Tech on how to do this). This ensures that it is only on when the engine is running. Fit an emergency cross connect switch between the two battery systems. This allows you to start the engine from the house battery in event of a flat start battery; and also to charge the start battery in event of DC to DC charger failure. Fit an auxiliary switch to the cross connect switch, and wire the charger control feed through it; this ensures that the charger is off when you use the emergency cross connect. Steve Appologies for the mix of US & UK spellings

Hi Bro It would be realy good if you could come back to this with a "how I did it" post; and maybe a photo or two. Feed back is realy useful. Good luck with the work. Steve

Hi Bro Yes its just the extra mainenance and reliability I would be concerned about. I once asked HMI why they fitted a 70/80/90 amp alt for the starter; the answer was something like "why not"! Steve

So this is a belt driven compressor which is engaged by a magnetic clutch in a standard automotive setup? In which case its not a 12 volt device in the normally accepted way, as it is only designed to work when the engine is running and the alternator output is in its normal range. I would guess that the electronics are sensing the voltage drop and interpreting it as an alternator failure, and disengaging the system to preserve the battery. This is probably normal for the cockpit system. You need to ask if the threshold voltage for disconnecting the compressor can be reduced without warranty implications. Steve (Eeyore)

Good morning Jelunga Thanks for the update. It will be interesting to see how the new flood defense work in Sawley and further down stream affects the levels. By their nature the flood defenses restrict the space the river has to flow into; so it could get interesting. Steve (Eeyore)

Good morning Bro Just to say that I am an avid follower of the parallelling threads on here; its some of the best "alternator porn" around. Its sound advice regardless of anything you choose do do about your non standard instalation. Both alternators are designed to charge "12 volt" systems. One has the nominal system voltage of 12 volts on the label; the other has something closer to it output voltage on the label. Both will typicaly have an output in the 14 to 14.6 volt range; its a standards verses marketing thing! Putting the domestics on the 90 amp alt is mechanicaly the same as reverting to a single alternator system; you will be placing all the load on the belt which also drives the water pump. The belt will wear out more frequently (reducing reliability) and you will need to remove the other belt for access each time. I have to confess to being a fan of where "simple" meets "standard"; which in this case would be having the domestic alternator that was intended for the engine. Steve