Horn Signalling

[Serendipity]

Using the horn for a warning has been mentioned elsewhere today, but I wonder how many canal users know the code (I know Port, Starboard, Astern and WTF but that's all) and find use for it on the cut as opposed to open waterways?

 

I know we generally all get by with hand signals (and enjoy the peace and quiet), but sometimes they're ambiguous, and sometimes invisible if the other boat is a cruiser.

 

Out of any i'd have thought the most useful was to indicate 'going astern' when giving way at an obstacle.

 

What's the general concensus?

[John Orentas]

Using the horn for a warning has been mentioned elsewhere today, but I wonder how many canal users know the code

 

 

I've looked at those codes many times, ok for commercial traffic but always seems grossly over complex for the canals. How many people could remember that lot anyway, when you have a 1000 ton barge bearing down on you, tooting away that is no time to start thumbing through your book.

 

What's wrong with, one single toot................... get out of the way.

Repeated long toots...........................................get out of the way quick.

Edited November 24, 2006 by John Orentas

[tomsk]

I've looked at those codes many times, ok for commercial traffic but always seems grossly over complex for the canals. How many people could remember that lot anyway, when you have a 1000 ton barge bearing down on you, tooting away that is no time to start thumbing through you book.

 

What's wrong with, one single toot................... get out of the way.

Repeated long toots...........................................get out of the way quick.

 

 

Ah, the voice of reason.......I would also add, get yourself a tooter that can be heard....Maybe additional to the underpowered item that most people equipe with...or an perhaps an emergency compressed air klaxon

[Serendipity]

when you have a 1000 ton barge bearing down on you, tooting away that is no time to start thumbing through you book.

 

 

But if it were tooting at you you might like to know what it was up to

[NB Alnwick]

How many people could remember that lot anyway, when you have a 1000 ton barge bearing down on you, tooting away that is no time to start thumbing through you book.

 

This may be the sort of occasion where listening in on VHF would also be helpful . . .

[dor]

I use the three toots (or, more often, 3 flashes of the tunnel light) to say "I.m giving way to you at this bridge hole - please come through". (3 signals means "I am going astern").

 

However no-one else seems to know these signals. So how do you signal that you are giving way at a bridge hole?

 

I am quite happy to give way at a bridge even if it is not "my" bridge, but it is irritating when you go to the trouble of stopping and the other boat also stops, finishes up broadside, then takes five minutes to gain control and come through. Despite frantioc arm waving to signal them to come on.

 

So what is best?

[GUMPY]

What's wrong with, one single toot................... get out of the way.

Repeated long toots...........................................get out of the way quick.

 

Because I would interpret the first as "I am altering my course to port"

could be interesting if you wern't......

[Supermalc]

Much to my surprise, I've discovered most people are so new to boating, they don't even know which side to pass, let alone what horn signals mean (I didn't for the first 2 years). So I would say use them as a warning i.e. to attract attention.

 

Mind you, I live up a steep dead-end street. Most days taxi's come up and hoot by their idle drivers. Then the kids going to school, or the drunks coming home open the doors with total disregard for cars either side, hence all the dents in mine.

 

One of the things I so enjoy about boating is the peace and quiet (QUIET on your boat Malcolm !!!) So from a personal point of view.....anyone blowing their horn should shove it up their &%£*

[NB Alnwick]

I use the three toots (or, more often, 3 flashes of the tunnel light) to say "I.m giving way to you at this bridge hole - please come through". (3 signals means "I am going astern").

 

However no-one else seems to know these signals. So how do you signal that you are giving way at a bridge hole?

 

I am quite happy to give way at a bridge even if it is not "my" bridge, but it is irritating when you go to the trouble of stopping and the other boat also stops, finishes up broadside, then takes five minutes to gain control and come through. Despite frantioc arm waving to signal them to come on.

 

So what is best?

 

Narrowboat steerers have been coping with this problem for over 200 years - even though there were fewer boats in the days of commercial carrying they must have had a good few encounters at bridges and a horse drawn boat with a 30 ton load had no reverse gear and no electric horn.

 

What signals or systems did they use to avoid collisions?

[Supermalc]

 

What signals or systems did they use to avoid collisions?

 

I would assume none, but maybe plenty of shouting afterwards.

[DaveR]

OCM usually sits in the cratch with her book whilst we are on the move.

 

I use the toots :-

 

1 = what are you doing?

2 = need tea

3 = how about a sandwich with it?

4 = and a biscuit

5 = need a loo break

 

Funny though, I never seem to get what I am wanting with this system. Guess I need to re-write the instruction card up for'd.

[MartinClark]

Narrowboat steerers have been coping with this problem for over 200 years - even though there were fewer boats in the days of commercial carrying they must have had a good few encounters at bridges and a horse drawn boat with a 30 ton load had no reverse gear and no electric horn.

 

What signals or systems did they use to avoid collisions?

In the case of two horse-drawn boats approaching each other at a blind bridgehole, they had the advantage that the horses were some way ahead of the boats so that there would be a little bit of advance warning when the other horse appeared rounding the bend! That is something you don't get today when you are almost into a bridgehole before you see the boat coming through the bridgehole the other way!

 

It was common for the crews of horse-drawn boats to crack a whip as a warning of their approach to a blind corner.

[John Orentas]

When I am in an unusually good mood and decide to let another boat through the bridge before me, I switch my tunnel light on for a few seconds. As per truck and car drivers, saves all that annoying messing about with two boats waiting for one another, it never fails.

 

What really bugs me is people slowing down to go through a bridge when it is obvious that you are waiting for them, you can always tell by watching their bow wave. Why do people do that.

 

The most important signalling device on my boat is the tea buzzer, button at the stern buzzer in the cabin.

[Janet S]

When approaching a bridge hole with an oncoming boat, I adopt the blonde stance (I'm a brunette, but have a vivid imagination...)

 

This involves putting hands over eyes, screaming, and waiting for he who must be obeyed to charge up on deck and take control.

 

Works every time! Gives them such a feeling of superiority and lets them believe that they're needed.

 

Janet

[Serendipity]

The most important signalling device on my boat is the tea buzzer, button at the stern buzzer in the cabin.

 

We definitely don't have the same wife then John, unless your tea arrives on your head - could we swap?

[DHutch]

We loosly abide to the conventional signals.

- One for stbd (right)

- Two for port (left)

- Three for "going astern"

- Five for "oh crap, nooooooooo"

- And one long for entering bridges/tunnels.

 

Theres no way of knowing if the oncoming boat knows the signal, but, theres no harm in using them anyway, and the actally make fairly logical sence anyway.

 

We are also quite heavy horn users, as discused on the "turning sharp bends" thread, because it IS so usefull.

 

If your approaching a bridge or a blind bend, theres nothing better than a quick toot to let anyone who might be there know.

- And, and this is the REALLY clever bit, if there IS someone there, THEY can sound there horn in reply. then you BOTH know!!

 

Unfortuatly, i seams few people feel that way back!

- The number of time ive sounded off on the approach to a bridge/bend. Then hurd nothing back, and carryed on, only to find a boat just round the corner. WHATS WITH THAT????

 

 

Daniel

[blackrose]

Some of the replies above showing people's individual ideas for sound signals and their supposed meanings demonstrates perfectly why there is a standard sound signal format. Perhaps it's not so important on canals but it certainly is for rivers. I don't remember all of the signals so I carry a laminated A4 just inside my stern doors showing sound signals & marker buoys.

[Christine]

When approaching a bridge hole with an oncoming boat, I adopt the blonde stance (I'm a brunette, but have a vivid imagination...)

 

This involves putting hands over eyes, screaming, and waiting for he who must be obeyed to charge up on deck and take control.

 

Works every time! Gives them such a feeling of superiority and lets them believe that they're needed.

 

Janet

 

 

......... I've done that!

 

What is so great about being a woman is if you do some sort of mighty b***s up, you can always revert to 'the blond stance'. I know it undoes 80 odd years of emancipation and my headmistress would be shamed by my conduct but it works quite well, especially while standing on the blunt end of a 70ft hire boat

 

If I hear a horn on narrows or bridge approaches, I do a bit of toot-de-tooting in a sort of friendly 'I'm here too way. It seems to work OK.

 

 

Chrissie

[grunders]

 

What really bugs me is people slowing down to go through a bridge when it is obvious that you are waiting for them, you can always tell by watching their bow wave. Why do people do that.

 

 

Well assuming it's a narrow bridgehole (otherwise you wouldn't have stopped) it may be that they are slowing down so they don't hit the bottom. We always slow down for narrow bridgeholes as there's less water to compensate for the displacement of the boat so carry on at speed and, especially when it's shallow, you're likely to run aground.

[John Orentas]

Well assuming it's a narrow bridgehole (otherwise you wouldn't have stopped) it may be that they are slowing down so they don't hit the bottom. We always slow down for narrow bridgeholes as there's less water to compensate for the displacement of the boat so carry on at speed and, especially when it's shallow, you're likely to run aground.

 

 

Don't see any logic in that, though there is a proven mathematical formula for some car drivers driving through gaps:-

 

'Width of car is directly proportional to velocity'.

 

I suppose if those same nervous types were to drive a boat a similar law would apply.

[howardang]

I use the three toots (or, more often, 3 flashes of the tunnel light) to say "I.m giving way to you at this bridge hole - please come through". (3 signals means "I am going astern").

 

However no-one else seems to know these signals. So how do you signal that you are giving way at a bridge hole?

 

I agree that thre is no clear signal to indicate that you are giving way at a bridge hole, but I usually find that a clear hand signal waving the other boat through works best. As far as sound signals go, unless everyone is prepared to use the correct signals (and there are only three to learn for most situations, although there are more if you're keen) it is a waste of time. You can see by some of the answers on this thread show that a lot of canal users would rather make up their own wsignals than use the ones that have been tried and tested elsewhere for years. As an example, you say you use three "toots" to mean you are giving way. If the oncoming boat doesn't understand what 3 blasts means, your meaning is certainly not clear. If he does then he understands only that your engine is going astern, not your boat necessarily - you might be just reducing speed and still intend to come through. I agree, however, that it would be logical to assume you were giving way but you can never be sure!

 

An analogy is the use of a flash of the headlights on a car. We all do it to indicate to another vehicle that we're giving way - after you old man! - and yet the highway code says that it should only be used as a warning of your presence.

 

Regards

 

Howard Angish

[John Orentas]

Howard.

 

"Tried and tested", I don't think so. The working boatman did not even know port from starboard, it was always left and right for them and we must bear in mind that 95% of the canal boats are on the canals.

 

All this signalling with the horn stuff is a very recent introduction it was only ever for big river communication and the "After you old man" has never been a flash of the headlights but a prolonged illumination, everyone understands it so I for one will continue to use it.

[bottle]

"After you old man" has never been a flash of the headlights but a prolonged illumination, everyone understands it so I for one will continue to use it.

 

See confusion already I thought it was the other way round.

 

But I do not trust or comply with other peoples signal unless it is used as advised in the highway code.

 

Flashing of headlights should be used only as a warning the same as a horn.

 

I do not ever trust directional signals (little flashing orange lights) that some people think are there just to make the car look pretty or do not use them at all.

 

If every one abided by the code then roads would be a safer place.

 

RANT

[howardang]

Howard.

 

"Tried and tested", I don't think so. The working boatman did not even know port from starboard, it was always left and right for them and we must bear in mind that 95% of the canal boats are on the canals.

 

All this signalling with the horn stuff is a very recent introduction it was only ever for big river communication and the "After you old man" has never been a flash of the headlights but a prolonged illumination, everyone understands it so I for one will continue to use it.

erm... I never mentioned Port & Starboard - by all means use Left and Right if you can't grasp the concept -but there is a very sound reason why they are used. The original question in this thread was about now, not what the old working boatmen did. I am suggesting that there are rules set out to help people in the situation mentioned and if people would only learn them instead of making up there own life might be a little simpler but if not it's better not to use your own signals which might just confuse rather than help.

 

As for your comments on flashing headlights, well I only hope you never have a shunt where an oncoming driver misunderstands your meaning - your insurance company won't be sympathetic with your misuse of the headlight, and neither I suspect would the police.

 

 

Howard Anguish

[bigfoot]

As a total novice it would be useful if all boaters were aware of basic audible signals for places such as bridge holes, tunnels and the like just to ensure a minor degree of safety, and also (good manners) !!!!!