bubble diesel stoves

[dominicebs]

Well - spent my first night on board this weekend - and very lovely it was too. The only thing I am having a problem with is the damned bubble diesel stove.

 

Got it lit fine on Saturday morning and it ran for hours - no problem. However by Saturday night it suddenly srarted making this very loud whump whump noise and billowing smoke (I was told that this meant it was flooding with diesel) I turned it off and left it off overnight. When I went to relight it the next morning it started up the whump whump again. Managed to let it calm down and got it re lit but it kept doing that whump whump trick and if I turn the oil flow down to anything less than full on it goes out.

 

Any tips

[jelunga]

High winds create a problem if you do not have a decent deflector at the top of the chimney. We have one that is basically a right angle and weather vanes to keep the flue exit pointing down wind. It does not cope well with rapidly veering winds. There is a flap on the back of the stove that is counterbalanced to open when high winds create too high a vacuum in the stove. Check this is freee tj move and that it closes properly. Do not oil it. The oil will burn and clog the hinge.

Check the chimney is clean, burner chamber free of carbjn build up and catalyst clean. Check filter in toby valve clean and no water in bottom of valve float chamber. Use decarbonising rod on the right of stove to ensure fuel feed hole clear.

Other than that there is little to go wrong with them and if jnstalled correctly they are clean and cheapish to run. We love ours, but even with a good rotating chimney top it does not like high veering wind and sonetines blows out.

Edited February 4, 2013 by jelunga

[LEO]

Hi,

 

Search the Forum, KK did an excellent illustrated article on cleaning a Reflecks stove - They are all similar.

 

Sounds as if it needs a good clean out.

 

Don't run the regulator too high.

 

I have a Kabola 'Old Dutch', it has been running continuously since early December, with very little maintenance other than re-filling the diesel tank and turning the drip feed jet cleaner.

 

Stick with it...

 

Leo

[lesrollins]

Agreed with jelunga it sounds if you have a diesel flow problem, if I let to much diesel in our corner bubble stove when lighting it, it also makes the whump whump noise. It only happens if I turn up the valve to much when lighting the stove, I usually find setting 1 - 2 lets just enough diesel through for lighting. If it does make the whump whump sound during the lighting stage I close all the valves including fuel tap and open the door slightly once the flames have dyed down slightly but not gone out altogether I close the door and open the fuel tap and set the valve to 1 - 2 then it seems to burn okay, I don,t know wether this is good practice but it works for me.

We have got quite a long chimney stack and it used to have a bird cowl on top but it rattled to much in the wind so I replaced it with a coolie hat keeping the long chimney stack. So far I have had no problems with winds blowing the fire out and it burns quite happy on kerosene which is also slightly cheaper to buy 67p a litre compared to 87p a litre for cherry.

[Ex- Member]

Well - spent my first night on board this weekend - and very lovely it was too. The only thing I am having a problem with is the damned bubble diesel stove.

 

Got it lit fine on Saturday morning and it ran for hours - no problem. However by Saturday night it suddenly srarted making this very loud whump whump noise and billowing smoke (I was told that this meant it was flooding with diesel) I turned it off and left it off overnight. When I went to relight it the next morning it started up the whump whump again. Managed to let it calm down and got it re lit but it kept doing that whump whump trick and if I turn the oil flow down to anything less than full on it goes out.

 

Any tips

 

 

 

Definitely sounds like too much fuel, we've had this on several occasions. The stove needs seting up, low and high flame, this is basically an adjustment of fuel flow into the stove. You need to set tthe high and low levels accurately so to create a nice Blue flame when on high and on low. The low flame should burn mainly through the larger holes half way up the pot. Full flame and the flames should be proruding from the upper ring of holes which are much smaller, get the Blue flame as high as possible but avoid any Yellow flame. Yellow flame generally denotes too much fuel or lack of draw.

 

Check all others have mentioned though, these stoves can be quirky, but when you do get them running right their brilliant.

 

Also I posted a couple of days ago we had noticed the door rope had twised on the Bubble stove, this has now been corrected and the stove is now better than ever, so checking everything possible pays.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Julynian

[jelunga]

Agreed with jelunga it sounds if you have a diesel flow problem, if I let to much diesel in our corner bubble stove when lighting it, it also makes the whump whump noise. It only happens if I turn up the valve to much when lighting the stove, I usually find setting 1 - 2 lets just enough diesel through for lighting. If it does make the whump whump sound during the lighting stage I close all the valves including fuel tap and open the door slightly once the flames have dyed down slightly but not gone out altogether I close the door and open the fuel tap and set the valve to 1 - 2 then it seems to burn okay, I don,t know wether this is good practice but it works for me.

We have got quite a long chimney stack and it used to have a bird cowl on top but it rattled to much in the wind so I replaced it with a coolie hat keeping the long chimney stack. So far I have had no problems with winds blowing the fire out and it burns quite happy on kerosene which is also slightly cheaper to buy 67p a litre compared to 87p a litre for cherry.

If you are running on kero and not diesel, there is a different jet required fir the toby since the fuels have differwnt heat outputs. It is a safety item so I would strenuously advise you to talk to Haworth Heating, the makers, urgently and get the correct toby vavle items.

[koukouvagia]

Hi,

 

Search the Forum, KK did an excellent illustrated article on cleaning a Reflecks stovε- They are all similar.

 

Sounds as if it needs a good clean out.

 

Don't run the regulator too high.

 

I have a Kabola 'Old Dutch', it has been running continuously since early December, with very little maintenance other than re-filling the diesel tank and turning the drip feed jet cleaner.

 

Stick with it...

 

Leo

 

Here's the posting. It's almost certainly a problem caused by lack of maintenance: blocked fuel line, clogged burner pot, gunged up filter (most probable). It might also need the flue cleaning.

Once you've flooded the pot, you'll need to mop out the surplus fuel. It won't clear itself and stop whumping.

 

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=51727&view=findpost&p=967542

Edited February 5, 2013 by koukouvagia

[Tuscan]

It may also be the wind , ours is effected by the high wind sometimes. When you relight do you check and remove any excess diesel on the floor of the stove.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Tuscan

[LEO]

It may also be the wind , ours is effected by the high wind sometimes. When you relight do you check and remove any excess diesel on the floor of the stove.

 

Interesting, both you and KK indicate that when the flame goes out on Reflecks the fuel still drips into the burner.

 

The Kabola (well the Old Dutch has) a fuel shut off, flame goes out - thermo coupling stops fuel flow.

 

L.

[koukouvagia]

Interesting, both you and KK indicate that when the flame goes out on Refleks the fuel still drips into the burner.

 

The Kabola (well the Old Dutch has) a fuel shut off, flame goes out - thermo coupling stops fuel flow.

 

L.

 

If you find that diesel is pooling in the bottom of the burner when you've turned the fire off, it is possible that there is a bit of muck lodged in the bottom of the metering stem tube in the oil regulator. If this happens the fuel inlet valve doesn't shut off properly. Again dismantling and a thorough clean will probably do the trick. I always turn off the supply when I leave the fire off for any length of time.

 

It has been mentioned that these stoves are quirky. I think that 99% of the problems can be solved by regular maintenance. If you're going to adjust the high and low flame adjustments, make sure the fire is hot before you start and do so very gradually (a quarter of a turn at a time), leaving the fire ten minutes to settle down between adjustments.

 

Has the trim of the boat altered? It is possible that the float level may need adjustment. A long shot, but something to be considered.

[lesrollins]

If you are running on kero and not diesel, there is a different jet required fir the toby since the fuels have differwnt heat outputs. It is a safety item so I would strenuously advise you to talk to Haworth Heating, the makers, urgently and get the correct toby vavle items.

 

I have not had a problem running on kerosene and i haven, t changed anything. Why would it cause different heat outputs.

[Ex- Member]

If you are running on kero and not diesel, there is a different jet required fir the toby since the fuels have differwnt heat outputs. It is a safety item so I would strenuously advise you to talk to Haworth Heating, the makers, urgently and get the correct toby vavle items.

 

I have not had a problem running on kerosene and i haven, t changed anything. Why would it cause different heat outputs.

 

 

 

Same here, I've been burning Kerosene for 6 weeks now, burns much beter than Red that's for sure. I've always understood stoves are designed to work on Kerosene, the majority of household stoves and cenral heating boilers run on Kerosene, why would thay make a stove that only runs on diesel, if it didnn't run on Kerosene hen I would expect some kind of visible warning.

[jelunga]

If you are running on kero and not diesel, there is a different jet required fir the toby since the fuels have differwnt heat outputs. It is a safety item so I would strenuously advise you to talk to Haworth Heating, the makers, urgently and get the correct toby vavle items.

 

I have not had a problem running on kerosene and i haven, t changed anything. Why would it cause different heat outputs.

Kero and eed diesel have different viscosities so the toby valve will let through different amounts and the calorific values are different. It means rhat if you have the stove with thediesel vamve and runit on kero you may exceed the rated heat output of the stove and overheat it. It may be the other way round. I will loon in my manual and repost when I have the answer.

 

http://www.oilstoves.co.uk/shopdetail.php?BB15B

Gives some info

Edited February 5, 2013 by jelunga

[Ex- Member]

As I though.This is from Oilstoves, makers of the Bubble stove

 

GENERAL DESCRIPTION OF BUBBLE STOVES

 

1. Bubble stoves are room heaters, which burn kerosene or diesel in a controlled

 

manner utilising an open flue to discharge the products of combustion.

 

http://www.oilstoves...ons_Issue_4.pdf

 

Edited February 5, 2013 by Julynian

[jelunga]

Same here, I've been burning Kerosene for 6 weeks now, burns much beter than Red that's for sure. I've always understood stoves are designed to work on Kerosene, the majority of household stoves and cenral heating boilers run on Kerosene, why would thay make a stove that only runs on diesel, if it didnn't run on Kerosene hen I would expect some kind of visible warning.

Read the manuals

 

As I though.This is from Oilstoves, makers of the Bubble stove

 

GENERAL DESCRIPTION OF BUBBLE STOVES

 

1. Bubble stoves are room heaters, which burn kerosene or diesel in a controlled

 

manner utilising an open flue to discharge the products of combustion.

 

http://www.oilstoves...ons_Issue_4.pdf

 

I think the operative word is OR not and. Read further on about the viscosity requirements. The sales info says either version is available. I still believe the fuel is not interchangeable on the same stove, according to the maker.

[Ex- Member]

Read the manuals

 

 

I think the operative word is OR not and. Read further on about the viscosity requirements. The sales info says either version is available. I still believe the fuel is not interchangeable on the same stove, according to the maker.

 

 

 

I've been tthrough tthe manual quite a few times as setting these stoves up can be a pain, I've never noticed mention of any different set up for separate fuel. The manual has a very concice instruction for adjusting high and low flame, surely it would say or warn somewhere as to the type fuel you were settting the stove up for. I would have though that if there were 2 separate systems of operation for each fuel, it would say or warn somewhere in this instruction. There is a mention of 2 different type valves one being a toby valve, but no mention of fuel in the same paragraph, as far as I can ascertain the toby valve is for bubbles with a back boiler and the other valve for basic stoves.

 

Cerainly no mention of any fuels other than diesel & Kerosene in any of heir blurb I've come across.

The only conclusion can be is the stove burns boh fuels, if they don't then Bubble are seriously misleading consumers and rendering their equipment unsafe if indeed adjustments are required for Diesel & Kero and they don't warn customers of this openly.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Julynian

[Up-Side-Down]

Speaking generally, 'cause I have no direct experience of the Bubble stove but have a Dickinson cooker on my boat and have, over the years, installed many domestic oil boilers:

 

Heating oil (or kerosene) is a 28 sec oil while diesel is a 35 sec oil. This is actually a measurement of the time taken for a given quantity of the oil to run through a certain sized orifice. However, in practical terms it tells us that kerosene is a thinner oil.

 

Most pressure jet domestic boilers of my acquaintance can be run on either but with the CORRECT jet fitted. Domestic boilers are nearly always jetted for kerosene and, if for some reason they are to be run on diesel, a replacement jet is obtained from the manufacturer (with of course a larger hole).

 

My Dickinson - which is a natural draught boiler, with no doubt a similar metering and burner design to the Bubble; Reflecks; etc - can be calibrated on the metering device to suit the viscosity of the fuel. Dickinson make the point that in cold weather it might be necessary to burn kerosene, as diesel becomes too viscous (thick) to flow fast enough.

 

Based on this experience, I would expect that if a pressure jet device (many of the Kabolas as well as domestic boilers) is specified to run on either 28 sec kerosene or 35 sec diesel (AKA gasoil) then there will be two interchangeable jets available for it, obtainable from the manufacturer.

 

For the Bubble stove, Dickinson, Reflecks, Old Dutch, etc changing from kerosene to diesel (or vice versa) requires recalibration on the metering device, remembering that kerosene is the less viscous (thinner) of the two fuels and will therefore flow faster.

 

Into this heady mix should be added ambient temperature - both fuels become more viscous and therefore flow more slowly as the temperature drops, hence the need to calibrate the metering device once the stove is up to temperature.

 

On a boat, fuel is often purchased in the summer and consumed in a stove over the winter. Only diesel sold in the run up to winter/through the winter has an additive to reduce the cloud point (when it stops flowing altogether) from around 0 deg C to about minus 9 deg C (give or take).

Edited February 5, 2013 by Up-Side-Down

[rjasmith]

I agree with all the comments re the need to set up any natural draught burner regulator to suit the viscosity of the oil being used (ie whether 35 second diesel or 28 second kerosene - they are NOT the same stuff!)

 

It was Harworth Heating themselves who advised me about changing the metering stem in the regulator and then doing a fine adjustment on the High flame/low flame screws when converting from diesel to kerosene.

 

I'm surprised folks are finding it easy to change fuels without doing this. Presumably your regulator knob position must have to be very different and may not give you as much control range when on the fuel that the regulator was not originally set up for. I did an initial test using kerosene without converting the regulator and I couldn't get a sensible blue flame setting without holding the control knob almost in the "off" position.

 

When I got the "kerosene" metering stem for my Kabola E5 from Kuranda it was interesting to compare the slot size with the "diesel" one. The kerosene one is much narrower - I was surprised that the difference would be visible but it certainly is!

 

Richard

[Ex- Member]

Speaking generally, 'cause I have no direct experience of the Bubble stove but have a Dickinson cooker on my boat and have, over the years, installed many domestic oil boilers:

 

Heating oil (or kerosene) is a 28 sec oil while diesel is a 35 sec oil. This is actually a measurement of the time taken for a given quantity of the oil to run through a certain sized orifice. However, in practical terms it tells us that kerosene is a thinner oil.

 

Most pressure jet domestic boilers of my acquaintance can be run on either but with the CORRECT jet fitted. Domestic boilers are nearly always jetted for kerosene and, if for some reason they are to be run on diesel, a replacement jet is obtained from the manufacturer (with of course a larger hole).

 

My Dickinson - which is a natural draught boiler, with no doubt a similar metering and burner design to the Bubble; Reflecks; etc - can be calibrated on the metering device to suit the viscosity of the fuel. Dickinson make the point that in cold weather it might be necessary to burn kerosene, as diesel becomes too viscous (thick) to flow fast enough.

 

Based on this experience, I would expect that if a pressure jet device (many of the Kabolas as well as domestic boilers) is specified to run on either 28 sec kerosene or 35 sec diesel (AKA gasoil) then there will be two interchangeable jets available for it, obtainable from the manufacturer.

 

For the Bubble stove, Dickinson, Reflecks, Old Dutch, etc changing from kerosene to diesel (or vice versa) requires recalibration on the metering device, remembering that kerosene is the less viscous (thinner) of the two fuels and will therefore flow faster.

 

Into this heady mix should be added ambient temperature - both fuels become more viscous and therefore flow more slowly as the temperature drops, hence the need to calibrate the metering device once the stove is up to temperature.

 

On a boat, fuel is often purchased in the summer and consumed in a stove over the winter. Only diesel sold in the run up to winter/through the winter has an additive to reduce the cloud point (when it stops flowing altogether) from around 0 deg C to about minus 9 deg C (give or take).

 

I would say you've hit the nail on tthe head. When we started using Kero the stove became too hot on the low flame setting, so I had to turn down the flow rate to recreate a nice low flame. This would indeed confirm that Kero is thinner and why I had to make the adjustment, High flame also had the flow rate reduced. I can't really say the stove ran any hotter than it did previously though. Of course in the past few days as I posted elsewhere the door on the stove had not been shutting properly since we had it 8 years ago, it now burns even better since this has been corrected, it really is a different beast, I'm 100% sure tthough that Kero is not having any kind of detrimenttal effect on the stove, Kero seems to burn a lot cleaner too and cheaper han Red, so we'll be using it all the time from now on.

[lesrollins]

Its rare that we ever need to go beyond setting 3 on the bubble stove, and we have never had any problems using kerosene sometimes we mix red and kerosene and the flame never changes in colour