voltage reg for LED lights?

[vintagescubaman]

I recently installed new lighting in my nb, I have fitted Lumo downlighters which are fantastic. I queried their operating voltage with the manufacturer and they are rated for up to 15 volts. However while running the engine a couple of days ago with the lights on one of them packed up, on taking the light out the casing had distorted slightly, and appears to have blown. The charging voltage never exceeds 14 volts so whats the problem? Do I need a voltage regulator? if so what sort would I need?

 

thanks for any advice!

[Tim Doran]

I have leds and no regulators and have not had any problems. Are the leds fused?

 

Tim

[bag 'o' bones]

From what I have read - baring in mind LED technology is advancing extremily fast and i'm not an expert - LED's don't like fluctuating voltages especially the older designs that do not have in built regulators.

 

Personally fitting a regulator into the main lighting circuit has got to be beneficial as even if your lights appear to be happy on a unregulated supply they do say it takes years off their design life.

Edited October 4, 2010 by bag 'o' bones

[Phil Ambrose]

Check out litewave.co.uk who have a lot of info on LED lights and I can recall seeing on this site mention of power regulation being required for certain of the products that they sell. I have bought some stuff from them and it was all good

 

Phil

[Nickhlx]

I have been ading LEDs to the boat for over a year now - some were "fixed 12 volt" ones, some are "9 to 30 volts" and some even claim they are "12 volts a.c." ! ( they do work either way round though so perhaps they have a bridge rectifier in the first part of their circuit).

 

Whatever, I have 5 lighting circuits on the boat and each is protected with a circuit breaker. As all are now replaced with LEDs, I have a regulator on each circuit except one ( which still has halogens and is operated via a dimmer). I haven't had any blow yet, but I rarely have the lights on at the same time as the engine, although that will be likely in the winter months. Also, with shore power, the Victron 12/3000/120/16 gets the battery voltage up to about 14.4, so the LEDS will see that voltage if they are switched on when on shore power, if they didn't have a regulator in circuit before them.

 

Each circuit has about 6 LED downlighters on, and some have shelf lights or bedside reading lights - each takes about 200 mA or less, so now each breaker is only being called to pass about an amp or so - I have built regulators to cope with the full rating assuming blown LEDs get replaced with halogen, i.e. about 5 or 6 amps, and have used MOSFETs with a low forward voltage drop ( about 0.1. volts ) so heatsinks were not too large.

 

All seems fine so far, but I am not sure if you can buy such devices....

 

Re suppliers who claim regulators are not needed, I wonder if they know for sure, ( I wouldn't expect a shopkeeper to be an "electronics expert", or whether he does know and looks forward to selling you some more in a few months . Either way, I like building regulators...

 

Nick

Edited October 4, 2010 by Nickhlx

[Gibbo]

This keeps coming up.

 

The problem is not the 14 or 14.5 volts charge voltage.

 

The problem is the 40 volt or more spikes that boats are full of. The spikes that are too fast for a meter to see.

 

They're the same spikes that zap tellies too. The spikes that "Well mine has been ok" doesn't disprove and the ones that "Boo Hoo my telly and my LEDs blew up" confirms.

[Phoenix_V]

This keeps coming up.

 

The problem is not the 14 or 14.5 volts charge voltage.

 

The problem is the 40 volt or more spikes that boats are full of. The spikes that are too fast for a meter to see.

 

They're the same spikes that zap tellies too. The spikes that "Well mine has been ok" doesn't disprove and the ones that "Boo Hoo my telly and my LEDs blew up" confirms.

 

Would this do the job

 

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=228639#helpfaq

 

Alternatively are the protections advertised as built into the led circuitry by Bedazzled etc any good?

 

Or is there another (cheap)solution?

[bag 'o' bones]

This keeps coming up.

 

The problem is not the 14 or 14.5 volts charge voltage.

 

The problem is the 40 volt or more spikes that boats are full of. The spikes that are too fast for a meter to see.

 

They're the same spikes that zap tellies too. The spikes that "Well mine has been ok" doesn't disprove and the ones that "Boo Hoo my telly and my LEDs blew up" confirms.

 

To be fair to the OP a quick search does not instantly indicate previous posts on the subject. In any case it does it really matter if a subject is repeated on a regular basis?

 

I'm sure everyone appreciates your electrickery explainations however how many times you have to repeat yourself!

[Phoenix_V]

Would this do the job

 

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=228639#helpfaq

 

Alternatively are the protections advertised as built into the led circuitry by Bedazzled etc any good?

 

Or is there another (cheap)solution?

 

bump

[Gibbo]

Would this do the job

 

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=228639#helpfaq

 

Alternatively are the protections advertised as built into the led circuitry by Bedazzled etc any good?

 

Or is there another (cheap)solution?

 

No. That's probably just as likely to be damaged by voltage spikes as the LEDs are.

 

Do a search on here for the subject. It's come up time and time again and led to many arguments between others who have no real experience in the subject and me who has been involved directly in the matter for 25 years.

[WotEver]

Do a search on here for the subject. It's come up time and time again and led to many arguments between others who have no real experience in the subject and me who has been involved directly in the matter for 25 years.

Like this one.

 

Tony

 

Post #26 in that thread describes a good way to start.

[Phoenix_V]

Like this one.

 

Tony

 

Post #26 in that thread describes a good way to start.

 

OK I have read some of the previous threads but am now wiring the boat so am more attentive to the possible issues.

 

With regard to the leds these are on a separate circuit. there is also a Victron invertor which I believe may give some protection. But the led wiring is in the same conduit as the pumps and fridge) I have some bedazzled leds but was going to try cheaper leds for the rest. I would buy 12 to 30 volt leds so voltage stability would not be an issue. The concern is spikes. I gather nothing is guaranteed but Gibbo's circuit suggestion is economic and as good as anything. Would it be better than the existing Bedazzled circuit? Would I need to add a protective circuit to each light or just one for the entire led circuit? which components would I need (do Maplin sell them?if not where)( I am thinking of up to 14 leds at 3watts each total 42 watts)) and how would I connect them.Or is there a commercial alternative?

 

For the TV this is an lcd 12 volt set without (apparently) any voltage stabilization so presumably the Maplin regulator would deal with that aspect and at least if a spike fried it would protect the TV? The TV is 3 amp so another copy of the same circuit could be used to protect against spikes? Or is it simpler and only slightly more power hungry to run the tv off a small inverter (would this need to be pure sine)

 

Sorry for so many questions but hope that one of you will be able to assist!

[WotEver]

Taking this question:

Would I need to add a protective circuit to each light or just one for the entire led circuit?

That was answered in the last line of post #26:

The absolute best solution is really to run a completely separate feed for all the lights and regulate the entire feed.

 

Tony

[Phoenix_V]

Taking this question:

 

That was answered in the last line of post #26:

 

 

Tony

OK, thanks, so one regulator per feed - thats easier- capable of up to 3.5 amps

 

What components do I need and how are they connected together?

Edited October 6, 2010 by Phoenix_V

[Phoenix_V]

OK, thanks, so one regulator per feed - thats easier- capable of up to 3.5 amps

 

What components do I need and how are they connected together?

 

 

 

Anyone?

Edited October 6, 2010 by Phoenix_V

[Wrinkley]

I'm waiting as well. Some one must know. All I need is a drawing and I'll be of to Maplins

 

Regards

 

Wrinkley

[Gibbo]

The answer is in the post Tony linked to in post #11 of this thread.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Gibbo

[Phoenix_V]

The answer is in the post Tony linked to in post #11 of this thread.

Ok I'll keep trying

 

I presume from it's name that the series protection diode is wired in series in the positive line after the inductor and then the transient suppressor diode is wired across the positive and negative line with a 50uf switched mode type electrolytic in series with a 50 ohm (what wattage?) resistor in parallel with the diode ie across positive and negative lines too, though a diagram would avoid any confusion

 

But what parts do I ask for in Maplin the only obvious one being the capacitor and a diagram would avoid any confusion

 

i have never asked for such specific help on the forum before and I am a little disappointed with the response from the experts

 

[

Edited October 6, 2010 by Phoenix_V

[bottle]

I'll put that last line down to tiredness.

[Phoenix_V]

I'll put that last line down to tiredness.

Sorry I think this has been a pretty poor show on the part of the electrical experts on the forum to date (but I live in hopes)

 

A lot of people have queried the possible damage voltage spikes might cause to leds and maybe other equipment such as TVs.

 

The experts agree it is a potential problem, confirm that there are no commercially available solutions (at least cost effective ones)proceed to discuss cost effective solutions amongst themselves at great length and when 2 or 3 of us ask for specifics sufficient for us to purchase the parts and construct a DIY spike limiter refer us back to their technical discussion/slanging match.

 

Come on one of you must be willing to help?

[jelunga]

Would this do the job

 

http://www.maplin.co...=228639#helpfaq

 

Alternatively are the protections advertised as built into the led circuitry by Bedazzled etc any good?

 

Or is there another (cheap)solution?

 

I have LEDS fitted which I bought from BeDazzled, with inbuilt voltage regulators. I have used them when I have been on shore power and set the battery charger for an equilising charge. This will give voltges up to 16.x volts. No problem so far. They have been also switched on when have run the microwave off the invertor. Still no problem. I seem to think Bedazzleds are good pieces of kit. However, I will not be able to give an accurate road test result for another 12 months at least.

 

WATCH THIS SPACE

 

sorry about all the edits. Too many bottles of wine to trype accuratley~~~~~

Edited October 7, 2010 by jelunga

[Chris Pink]

Either way, I like building regulators...

 

 

Fancy posting a circuit?

[Gibbo]

Personally I thought this.........

 

What components do I need and how are they connected together?

 

Followed by this.......

 

Anyone?

 

Three hours later was a bit rude.

 

Kind of implying none of us have anything else to do and we're somehow obliged to answer questions to such an extent that we have to do all the digging through data sheets and catalogues to pin it down to one supplier's part number when that information is already in the thread linked to.

 

To then be followed by this............

 

Sorry I think this has been a pretty poor show on the part of the electrical experts on the forum to date (but I live in hopes)

 

A lot of people have queried the possible damage voltage spikes might cause to leds and maybe other equipment such as TVs.

 

The experts agree it is a potential problem, confirm that there are no commercially available solutions (at least cost effective ones)proceed to discuss cost effective solutions amongst themselves at great length and when 2 or 3 of us ask for specifics sufficient for us to purchase the parts and construct a DIY spike limiter refer us back to their technical discussion/slanging match.

 

Come on one of you must be willing to help?

 

Can't you see from the thread that is no instant fix all? It doesn't exist.

 

So how about, sort your own problems out. After impatience and insults like that, why should I help?

 

An apology might result in me spending an hour of my free time sorting out your problems. If you're lucky.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Gibbo

[Phoenix_V]

I apologise

[Gibbo]

Right I've done some meddling.

 

Unfortunately Maplin aren't much help for most of this.

 

You need a fast recovery rectifier diode in line with the positive input. This kills any reverse polarity spikes. It's better to stop them getting in there in the first place rather than trying to clamp them.

 

Suitable part numbers are (none available from Maplin):-

 

10ETF12PBF

DHG10I1200PA

DHG20I1200PA

RHRP15120

STTH3010PI

 

All stocked by Farnell.

 

Then one of these...........

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10A-NOISE-SUPPRESSOR-FILTER-ELIMINATE-CAR-RADIO-NOISE-/330440858161?pt=UK_Audio_TV_Electronics_In_Car_Entertainment_GPS_Car_Amplifiers_PP&hash=item4cefcf5a31

 

Followed by 2 X 1.5KE18A (Maplin N92CA) in parallel reverse wired across the output of the filter will provide extremely good suppression of spikes.

 

That combination will be good for about 7 amps of LEDs, which is a lot. I know the filter says 10 amps but it will lose its effectiveness for our purposes above about 7 amps.