LED lights

[Jparry]

I have recently bought several led lights from 2 suppliers ,one company supplies the lights with quote" there own unique voltage suppresion circuit " which consists of a 300ma self resetting fuse & a transient voltage suppressor wired across the output to the light .

The other supplier doesn'nt supply the circuit .All the lights are 8-30 volt and are being run on 24 volts do the more knowledgeable think this circuit is worthwhile or just not necessary.I would be grateful for your answers .The reason I ask is the the second company supply brighter lights but no voltage suppressor Joe

[churchward]

I think I can guess where you are talking about in terms of the supplier with their own voltage suppressor device.

 

In theory with the correct automotive grade LED bulbs you shouldn't need it but the bulb on a boat has to take much higher voltage spikes potentially than on a car due to devices like a 12V fridge being fitted on a boat which at start-up can get very high split second voltage spikes going through the system that can damage LED units significantly shortening their life.

 

I have bought most of the LEDs on our boat from (all our lights are LED)

 

http://www.bedazzled.uk.com/index.html

 

I have been very happy with the units and suppressor devices they supply and with their service.

[ditchcrawler]

I have recently bought several led lights from 2 suppliers ,one company supplies the lights with quote" there own unique voltage suppresion circuit " which consists of a 300ma self resetting fuse & a transient voltage suppressor wired across the output to the light .

The other supplier doesn'nt supply the circuit .All the lights are 8-30 volt and are being run on 24 volts do the more knowledgeable think this circuit is worthwhile or just not necessary.I would be grateful for your answers .The reason I ask is the the second company supply brighter lights but no voltage suppressor Joe

I get mine from Ultraled, like you 8-30 run on 24 and so far have not had any failures. The internal lights are normally on when going through tunnels with the engine running, at other times it is very rear to run the engine with the lights on.

[Ewart Hodgson]

I have recently bought several led lights from 2 suppliers ,one company supplies the lights with quote" there own unique voltage suppresion circuit " which consists of a 300ma self resetting fuse & a transient voltage suppressor wired across the output to the light .

The other supplier doesn'nt supply the circuit .All the lights are 8-30 volt and are being run on 24 volts do the more knowledgeable think this circuit is worthwhile or just not necessary.I would be grateful for your answers .The reason I ask is the the second company supply brighter lights but no voltage suppressor Joe

 

I can't even imagine what 'voltage suppressor' means! Fluorescent lights often have interference suppressors, and LEDs usually have voltage regulators, but voltage suppressor??? All I can think of is that they have a spike suppressor. It would make more sense to make sure that anything likely to generate strong voltage spikes (anything with a coil in it - water pumps are probably the only cabin appliances with them) have adequate suppressors (generally a 1uF capacator across them will do).

 

How do you find your LED lights? I tried some a couple of years ago, and although they looked white they had a weird effect on the apparent colours of the curtains, book spines, clothes etc. When I split the light with a prism, I found it was not even remotely white but was a combination of about six narrow emission colours. I went back to halogen (when not settling down to relax with oil lighting, which will remain my favourite).

[Jparry]

Thanks you are both right with the suppliers I suppose I could add the voltage suppressor to ultras Leds .The lights with 12 leds on quite bright & the warm ones give quite a nice light .Joe

[Colin Smith]

I can't even imagine what 'voltage suppressor' means! Fluorescent lights often have interference suppressors, and LEDs usually have voltage regulators, but voltage suppressor??? All I can think of is that they have a spike suppressor. It would make more sense to make sure that anything likely to generate strong voltage spikes (anything with a coil in it - water pumps are probably the only cabin appliances with them) have adequate suppressors (generally a 1uF capacator across them will do).

 

Just found your post while looking at LED lighting posts in general. Although an electrical/electronic novice, it seems to make sense to me that adding a spike suppressor to a potential source (pumps etc) would be easier to sort out to prevent possible damage to LED bulbs. So, could you please explain firstly, how to calculate the required capacitor and also how this would be fitted - for example on a water pump?

 

Thanks,

 

Colin

[nb Innisfree]

I thought voltage spikes didn't occur with battery power as batteries absorb them?

[bag 'o' bones]

I have recently bought several led lights from 2 suppliers ,one company supplies the lights with quote" there own unique voltage suppresion circuit " which consists of a 300ma self resetting fuse & a transient voltage suppressor wired across the output to the light .

The other supplier doesn'nt supply the circuit .All the lights are 8-30 volt and are being run on 24 volts do the more knowledgeable think this circuit is worthwhile or just not necessary.I would be grateful for your answers .The reason I ask is the the second company supply brighter lights but no voltage suppressor Joe

 

I've been reading a book called LED voltage supplies and nothing is mentioned about a transisent voltage suppressor.

 

Simplistically (I'm not a an electronics expert) LEDS don't like being fed with incorrect power else they either pop very quickly or they are dim or strange things happen to the light spectrum etc etc. There fore to get the best out of LEDS a properly designed regulated power supply should be used.

 

Maybe the 'transisent voltage suppressor' is a 'buck' switched mode power supply. Designed to prevent voltage spikes and feed the correct voltage to the LEDS.

 

'Buck' circuits reduce the voltage, 'Boost' circuits increase the voltage and 'Buck-Boost' circuits do both at the same time from what I can make out. There are others too.

 

Try googling the circuit names a bove and they will explain it properly.

Edited May 12, 2010 by bag 'o' bones

[ditchcrawler]

I thought voltage spikes didn't occur with battery power as batteries absorb them?

I think I agree with you, 4 big 12 batteries strapped across the supply should absorb most things. Correct voltage rating is another matter.

[Nickhlx]

Maybe the 'transisent voltage suppressor' is a 'buck' switched mode power supply. Designed to prevent voltage spikes and feed the correct voltage to the LEDS.

 

 

 

A Transient Voltage Suppressor, is/does just that ! - It suppresses transient voltages. These occur when inductive loads are suddenly switched off ( e.g an ignition coil on a petrol engine) and are generally very high voltage "spikes" for a short time. They are called "spikes" because if you look at them with a Storage Oscilloscope, they will look like a flat line with a spike in the middle, which is a much higher voltage for a very short time. Examples on boats include motors in e.g. fridges and water pumps. It is usually a passive device that is soldered across the supply terminals of the device to be protected and can look like a e.g. "5p piece with legs". It will do nothing until its rated voltage is exceeded then very suddenly and quickly ( nanoseconds) go into conduction, which should stop the voltage rising any further which is what is needed to "short out" the spike and hopefully prevent it the higher voltage doing damage to the device it is trying to protect.

 

A "buck" switched mode power supply is a device which regulates voltage down from a higher voltage to a lower voltage - also known as a converter and a down-converter. The "opposite" is a "boost", and a combination is a "buck-boost" power supply. An example would be a device which will accept an input of between 9 and 18 volts, and provide an output of 12 volts, reagrdless of what the input voltage is, either above or below the output voltage.

 

The Transient voltage suppressor being a single item and a passive device will be much cheaper than a circuit which can both reduce or boost the supplied input voltage.

 

Nick

[Colin Smith]

Maybe the 'transisent voltage suppressor' is a 'buck' switched mode power supply. Designed to prevent voltage spikes and feed the correct voltage to the LEDS.

 

 

 

A Transient Voltage Suppressor, is/does just that ! - It suppresses transient voltages. These occur when inductive loads are suddenly switched off ( e.g an ignition coil on a petrol engine) and are generally very high voltage "spikes" for a short time. They are called "spikes" because if you look at them with a Storage Oscilloscope, they will look like a flat line with a spike in the middle, which is a much higher voltage for a very short time. Examples on boats include motors in e.g. fridges and water pumps. It is usually a passive device that is soldered across the supply terminals of the device to be protected and can look like a e.g. "5p piece with legs". It will do nothing until its rated voltage is exceeded then very suddenly and quickly ( nanoseconds) go into conduction, which should stop the voltage rising any further which is what is needed to "short out" the spike and hopefully prevent it the higher voltage doing damage to the device it is trying to protect.

 

A "buck" switched mode power supply is a device which regulates voltage down from a higher voltage to a lower voltage - also known as a converter and a down-converter. The "opposite" is a "boost", and a combination is a "buck-boost" power supply. An example would be a device which will accept an input of between 9 and 18 volts, and provide an output of 12 volts, reagrdless of what the input voltage is, either above or below the output voltage.

 

The Transient voltage suppressor being a single item and a passive device will be much cheaper than a circuit which can both reduce or boost the supplied input voltage.

 

Nick

 

 

OK, forgive my utter ignorance but it seems to me that providing the charging equipment is correctly set up ie. Charging at max 14.4v (for sealed lead-acid batteries) and my LED’s are rated at 8-30v that should be OK. The problem is when/if another device (water pump for example) switches, it may cause a ‘spike’ that could be at a higher voltage which in turn could damage the LED’s if they are switched on.

 

So, either each LED or the circuit that they are connected to needs to be protected from the ‘spike’ or the device (water pump) needs something to absorb the ‘spike’ so it doesn’t dump the higher voltage up the line?

 

I am aware that there are voltage regulators that can be fitted to circuits but these all seem to be limited to 1amp max and may/may not include a ‘transient spike suppressor’. I’m also aware of the LED’s supplied by some vendors that are individually fitted with ‘transient spike suppressors’. The problem with a voltage regulator is that in my case, some of the LED circuits will draw more than 1amp and it’s impractical to re-wire everything to make smaller, individual circuits to which a 1amp regulator could be fitted. The individual regulated and spike suppressed LED’s are more than three times the cost of those I can get. (I have 58 LED fittings in my barge not to mention LED nav lights etc!)

 

So, it seems to me that the easiest and most cost-effective solution would be to add a ‘passive device’ to any item that could potentially cause a ‘spike’ – water pump, heating pump, toilet macerator pump, shower and bilge pumps etc. If that is the case, what should be fitted? My guess is that it will depend on the nature of each device so how would you work out what type of device and its rating/spec?

 

Of course I could have this totally wrong!

 

Thank you for your advice and guidance!

Colin

[blodger]

I presumed most items of equipment such as mains washing machines & fridge motors had built into them some sort of spike reduction and suppresion device in the form of a large capacitor.

 

Do manufacturers not do similar with 12v appliance motors or does the DC rather than AC make it more problematic?

[WotEver]

I presumed most items of equipment such as mains washing machines & fridge motors had built into them some sort of spike reduction and suppresion device in the form of a large capacitor.

 

Do manufacturers not do similar with 12v appliance motors or does the DC rather than AC make it more problematic?

I remain unconvinced that you'd GET transient spikes in a 12V (or 24V) battery powered system.

 

So I do wonder what a "300ma self resetting fuse & a transient voltage suppressor wired across the output to the light" is for, and whether it's simply an excuse to charge more for the lamps.

 

Tony

[Gunna Do]

I remain unconvinced that you'd GET transient spikes in a 12V (or 24V) battery powered system.

 

So I do wonder what a "300ma self resetting fuse & a transient voltage suppressor wired across the output to the light" is for, and whether it's simply an excuse to charge more for the lamps.

 

Tony

 

I have been replacing my bulbs with LED's from Bedazzled. It's quite a faff connecting up the fuse etc but the latest batch now have this built in so now much easier.

[Nickhlx]

I remain unconvinced that you'd GET transient spikes in a 12V (or 24V) battery powered system.

 

So I do wonder what a "300ma self resetting fuse & a transient voltage suppressor wired across the output to the light" is for, and whether it's simply an excuse to charge more for the lamps.

 

Tony

 

 

 

Do you think that there is no voltage spike on a 12 volt system when the water pump or fridge switches off ?

 

Nick

[WotEver]

Do you think that there is no voltage spike on a 12 volt system when the water pump or fridge switches off ?

 

Nick

Yes I do. Because I think it would be quenched by those bloody great batteries at the other end of the cable.

 

Of course, if anyone's ever measured one with a storage scope then I'm happy (as always) to be proved wrong, but until then I can't see how a spike could exist.

 

Tony

[MikeV]

Do you think that there is no voltage spike on a 12 volt system when the water pump or fridge switches off ?

 

Nick

I would hope that most boats are 'star' wired from a distribution point which is near to the batteries. Any spikes will be partially suppressed by the wiring, which has its own inductance, as well as the batteries absorbing some of the spike energy. Assuming the LED lights are on separate wiring circuits and have a reasonable voltage range (e.g 8-30V) the actual spikes at the LEDs are likely to suppressed to the point where they cause no damage.

 

I just fitted four new SMD LED lights on my boat and on the back of the substrate there are two electrolytic capacitors. I don't know what the circuit is, but I would assume they are there to provide some level of smoothing/spike suppression.

 

I've not had an LED light fail completely yet, but some of the ones with 21 LEDs I bought two years ago are now down to about 15 LEDS or so still working. LEDs for lighting is still relatively new technology and will improve in both performance and reliability, as well as getting cheaper. I've just ordered a couple of 1.4W SMD units for £1.49 from Hong Kong to see if cheap ones hold up in marine applications. Nothing ventured, nothing gained!

[nicknorman]

Yes I do. Because I think it would be quenched by those bloody great batteries at the other end of the cable.

 

Of course, if anyone's ever measured one with a storage scope then I'm happy (as always) to be proved wrong, but until then I can't see how a spike could exist.

 

Tony

 

Perhaps you have never heard of Inductance? Long lines to batteries have inductance, which is not really dependant on the cable thickness. Put simplistically, a property of inductance is to resist rates of change of current, and it does this by generating a voltage to preserve the current. This is how the old-fashioned ignition coil in a car works - the spark is generated when the current flow is suddenly stopped by the points opening. So when a large current is suddently interrupted (water pump switching off etc) there is large voltage transient produced, regardless of whether or not there are some batteries a few metres away. Its likely to be short-duration and whether of sufficient energy to damage LED lighting I don't know, but there will most certainly be momentary transients of 10s or 100s of volts.

[Nickhlx]

Yes I do. Because I think it would be quenched by those bloody great batteries at the other end of the cable.

 

Of course, if anyone's ever measured one with a storage scope then I'm happy (as always) to be proved wrong, but until then I can't see how a spike could exist.

 

Tony

 

 

I think the existance of inductance, even in lengths of straight wire as opposed to coils, will allow transients to exist without the "protection" of the battery. This assumes that the battery is at "the other end of" the circuit, which it may not be. What if the main fuse to the battery blew, or more likely the master switch were to be switched off, thereby isolating the battery, whilst the fridge was on and pumping ? I would imagine that the motor would develop a powerful spike, and the battery has just been taken out of "the circuit" so anything still connected on the whole boat would be exposed to this voltage.

 

I would expect there to exist spikes on a 12 volt system !

 

Nick

[MikeV]

I would expect there to exist spikes on a 12 volt system !

 

Nick

As LEDs are diodes operating in a forward biased mode they will function a bit like their application in a galvonic isolator, i.e. they will absorb the spikes providing their rating is sufficient to dissipate the energy. If the energy in the spike exceeds the diode rating, you'll have a dead LED!

 

However, pulsing LEDs with short current bursts has been a well used technique to make LEDs seem brighter in applications where visibility rather than illumination is the main requirement. Currents up to an 1 amp can be continuously pulsed through quite small LEDs providing the pulse width is sufficiently narrow that the overall power dissipation is within the device's limits.

 

I think the growing number of boats using LEDs and, at least as far as I know, relatively few reports of major failures would suggest in most cases the spikes are absorbed without problems. Obviously earlier generation devices were probably more susceptible, and specific motorised devices might be less suppressed, but overall this does not seem to be a major problem.

 

You can always buy a few LEDs and run them for a while to see if there are any problems in a particular installation. I would also think the fitting of a voltage suppressor at the distribution board would be a cheap form of insurance.

[WotEver]

Perhaps you have never heard of Inductance?

Oh I think I have

 

Until someone can show me otherwise I still think that the inductance of a straight piece of 4mm cable (as might be supplying a fridge for instance) would be so tiny, coupled with the very low impedance of the battery feeding it, that there would be no appreciable spike appearing on other radials. Particularly not sufficient as to 'blow' a diode.

 

But as I've said before, I'm happy to be proved wrong by anyone who actually knows as opposed to assumes.

 

Tony

[nicknorman]

Oh I think I have

 

Until someone can show me otherwise I still think that the inductance of a straight piece of 4mm cable (as might be supplying a fridge for instance) would be so tiny, coupled with the very low impedance of the battery feeding it, that there would be no appreciable spike appearing on other radials. Particularly not sufficient as to 'blow' a diode.

 

But as I've said before, I'm happy to be proved wrong by anyone who actually knows as opposed to assumes.

 

Tony

 

I am not saying that the transients have sufficient energy to blow the LED device (that would depend on the individual device of course) but its not just the inductance of the wires that are the issue (though that is one of the reasons why the batteries can't absorb short-term transients) - when the fridge thermostat cuts out (or water pump pressure switch), ie the contacts open, the inductance of the fridge motor windings will result in sufficient voltage transient to arc across the contacts for a few milliseconds. That probably produces a thousand volts or so, both positive and negative cycles whilst the energy stored in the windings is dissipated. Its pretty high frequency/ short duration but that is of course why it may be heard on a radio (on AM at least). Pehaps its the negative side of the transient that causes the problem - even though you might think that the negative transient could not possibly result in a negative voltage at the device against the 12v battery with all its capacity, in fact it could albeit for a very short duration due to the inductance of the wiring. Even though the energy of the transient is very low, the actual semiconductor junction is tiny and as we know, even static from human fingers can blow these sorts of devices.

 

Its not necessarily the case that the energy has to travel back to the hub of the radial wires - the energy will be passed to other wires lying next to each other by inductive coupling.

 

Some fridges / waters pumps etc will have snubbers to absorb the energy, so I am sure that any damage to LEDs will depend on all the detail of the wiring and the sources of the transients.

 

So really all I am saying is that I don't think we can rule out damage from transients - perhaps the only proof will be in the pudding (ie with time and experience)

[Gibbo]

Ok....

 

Huge voltage spikes exist on 12 and 24 volt battery systems.

 

Equipment properly designed to operate on these systems is designed to meet ISO7637-2. This standard dictates that the equipment must be able to withstand positive spikes up to (IIRC) 200 and 400 volts (12 and 24 volt systems) and negative voltage spikes up to -300 and -600 volts. There are various voltage levels and time periods for each "spike" test. The equipment is allowed to fail to operate correctly during and following some of the tests but it must survive all the tests without any damage.

 

If the equipment is not designed to that standard (and sometimes even if it is), eventually, it will go bang.

 

There is simply no point in trying to argue against this fact with the argument of "well mine has been ok" (as we often hear). That is a worthless statistic and it amazes me that otherwise intelligent people even waste their breath raising it. All it takes is one piece of equipment to suffer damage to prove that the problem does indeed exist. And the statistics show that many thousands of items that don't meet ISO7637-2 have been damaged as a result of these spikes.

 

This is why ISO7637-2 exists in the first place. It is one of the few standards that wasn't dreamed up just for the fun of it (like most standards are). This standard does actually have a use and purpose.

 

Most vehicle manufacturers have even stricter standards than 7637-2 that equipment must meet before they will even consider fitting it to their vehicles.

 

Under pressure from clients I have in the past designed equipment which doesn't meet the standard in order to reduce costs. The person who makes that decision learns their lesson in each case as the warranty claims start to mount. Often coming close to 100% failure over 5 years.

 

If those spike suppressors do what they are supposed to do and do what the marketing blurb says then there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that those LEDs will last longer.

 

Voltage spikes are a major problem on boats and vehicles. So much so that there is an almost entire industry dedicated to dealing with just that one problem.

 

Oh I think I have

 

Until someone can show me otherwise I still think that the inductance of a straight piece of 4mm cable (as might be supplying a fridge for instance) would be so tiny, coupled with the very low impedance of the battery feeding it, that there would be no appreciable spike appearing on other radials. Particularly not sufficient as to 'blow' a diode.

 

But as I've said before, I'm happy to be proved wrong by anyone who actually knows as opposed to assumes.

 

Tony

 

 

I've done a ridiculous amount of work on this problem for military products.

 

It would appear that a stonking great battery in the system would swamp any voltage spikes. But the problem is, at high frequencies, the battery has an extremely high impedance. The nett result is that a 500 volt spike with a rise time in nano seconds (as you get from contacts opening) gets almost zero attenuation from a battery. You can see it on a 'scope quite clearly with and without the battery in place and it can actually be difficult to see any difference.

 

Honest

[Nickhlx]

Ok....

 

Huge voltage spikes exist on 12 and 24 volt battery systems.

 

Equipment properly designed to operate on these systems is designed to meet ISO7637-2. This standard dictates that the equipment must be able to withstand positive spikes up to (IIRC) 200 and 400 volts (12 and 24 volt systems) and negative voltage spikes up to -300 and -600 volts. There are various voltage levels and time periods for each "spike" test. The equipment is allowed to fail to operate correctly during and following some of the tests but it must survive all the tests without any damage.

 

If the equipment is not designed to that standard (and sometimes even if it is), eventually, it will go bang.

 

There is simply no point in trying to argue against this fact with the argument of "well mine has been ok" (as we often hear). That is a worthless statistic and it amazes me that otherwise intelligent people even waste their breath raising it. All it takes is one piece of equipment to suffer damage to prove that the problem does indeed exist. And the statistics show that many thousands of items that don't meet ISO7637-2 have been damaged as a result of these spikes.

 

This is why ISO7637-2 exists in the first place. It is one of the few standards that wasn't dreamed up just for the fun of it (like most standards are). This standard does actually have a use and purpose.

 

Most vehicle manufacturers have even stricter standards than 7637-2 that equipment must meet before they will even consider fitting it to their vehicles.

 

Under pressure from clients I have in the past designed equipment which doesn't meet the standard in order to reduce costs. The person who makes that decision learns their lesson in each case as the warranty claims start to mount. Often coming close to 100% failure over 5 years.

 

If those spike suppressors do what they are supposed to do and do what the marketing blurb says then there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that those LEDs will last longer.

 

Voltage spikes are a major problem on boats and vehicles. So much so that there is an almost entire industry dedicated to dealing with just that one problem.

 

 

 

 

I've done a ridiculous amount of work on this problem for military products.

 

It would appear that a stonking great battery in the system would swamp any voltage spikes. But the problem is, at high frequencies, the battery has an extremely high impedance. The nett result is that a 500 volt spike with a rise time in nano seconds (as you get from contacts opening) gets almost zero attenuation from a battery. You can see it on a 'scope quite clearly with and without the battery in place and it can actually be difficult to see any difference.

 

Honest

 

So, Chris, are there any worthwhile simple things that can be done to help guard against the effects of these spikes ? - i.e fitting Transient Voltage Suppressors, capacitors, in line inductances etc ? Even if they won't guarantee protection, might it help / be worth doing for the cost of the bits ?

 

i.e. What can us average boating punters fit, or do, to help protect our equipment from at least some of these spikes, which we all have ?

 

Thanks,

Nick

Edited May 15, 2010 by Nickhlx

[Colin Smith]

Ok....

 

Huge voltage spikes exist on 12 and 24 volt battery systems.

 

Equipment properly designed to operate on these systems is designed to meet ISO7637-2. This standard dictates that the equipment must be able to withstand positive spikes up to (IIRC) 200 and 400 volts (12 and 24 volt systems) and negative voltage spikes up to -300 and -600 volts. There are various voltage levels and time periods for each "spike" test. The equipment is allowed to fail to operate correctly during and following some of the tests but it must survive all the tests without any damage.

 

If the equipment is not designed to that standard (and sometimes even if it is), eventually, it will go bang.

 

There is simply no point in trying to argue against this fact with the argument of "well mine has been ok" (as we often hear). That is a worthless statistic and it amazes me that otherwise intelligent people even waste their breath raising it. All it takes is one piece of equipment to suffer damage to prove that the problem does indeed exist. And the statistics show that many thousands of items that don't meet ISO7637-2 have been damaged as a result of these spikes.

 

This is why ISO7637-2 exists in the first place. It is one of the few standards that wasn't dreamed up just for the fun of it (like most standards are). This standard does actually have a use and purpose.

 

Most vehicle manufacturers have even stricter standards than 7637-2 that equipment must meet before they will even consider fitting it to their vehicles.

 

Under pressure from clients I have in the past designed equipment which doesn't meet the standard in order to reduce costs. The person who makes that decision learns their lesson in each case as the warranty claims start to mount. Often coming close to 100% failure over 5 years.

 

If those spike suppressors do what they are supposed to do and do what the marketing blurb says then there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that those LEDs will last longer.

 

Voltage spikes are a major problem on boats and vehicles. So much so that there is an almost entire industry dedicated to dealing with just that one problem.

 

 

 

 

I've done a ridiculous amount of work on this problem for military products.

 

It would appear that a stonking great battery in the system would swamp any voltage spikes. But the problem is, at high frequencies, the battery has an extremely high impedance. The nett result is that a 500 volt spike with a rise time in nano seconds (as you get from contacts opening) gets almost zero attenuation from a battery. You can see it on a 'scope quite clearly with and without the battery in place and it can actually be difficult to see any difference.

 

Honest

 

 

Ok, my ignoramus take on all this…….So, providing the equipment (pumps etc) meet the standard, we can assume that there will be some protection but not remove the possibility that something else may cause a ‘spike’ that could take out or shorten the life of LED bulbs (or should that be lamps?). Therefore, the only safe way to go would be to:

1. Protect the bulbs themselves (as in the bedazzled units)

2. Protect the circuit to which they are attached (and route the cables as far away as possible from other (pump) cables).

3. Add protection to all devices installed (I guess that is all pumps, fridge and other motors – I have some linear activators).

 

1. The ‘protected’ bulbs are three times the price of a typical G4 SMD 8-30v LED and if you have a lot (I have 58) it gets very expensive.

2. Seems to me that you can only get devices that will handle up to 1amp max and there may be voltage-drop issues with them.

3. Is this possible and if so, what is required?

I suppose I’m looking for a solution that is an alternative to spending an additional £250 on bulbs!

 

Thanks,

 

Colin