Beeston canal unlicensed boats

[mayalld]

Hmmm there would be nosy do gooders up and down the country queing up for that! BW dont neeed a licence to be displayed to know whether you have one or not they just need to look on the computer. I dont dipslay mine (keeps getting damp in the window)

That assumes that they can identify the boat!Some people don't display their index number.

What kind of offence? Punishable by what?

An offence under BW bye-laws, punishable by a £100 fine.

[carlt]

The same people that you condemn now could continue to look out for licence dodgers, but as they were now appointed by BW, you wouldn't mind

They're having tshirts printed up already for the uniform:

[Sir Nibble]

What we seem to have here is a bunch of "nosey do-gooders" seeking to apply their moral standards on others by shopping them to the relevant authorities having spotted reasonably convincing evidence that an offence is being committed.

On the other side, there is another group, who find this application of ones own standards to another person to be reprehensible, and apply THEIR moral standards to the first group, ladling out snide comments and condemnation.

The first group may or may not, depending on ones own viewpoint, have a moral right to choose to support the authorities as indeed those authorities have requested.

The second group have every right to find this distasteful, but it may be seen as hypocrisy to say "this is not my business" and then enter the debate in condemnation of the first group.

In short, if you consider it your moral duty to shop the APPARENTLY unlicenced, then a licence evader took this on when they failed to licence their boat and have no-one else to blame.

If you consider licence evasion and the efforts to stamp it out "none of my business" then butt out! It is, as you say, not your business.

[carlt]

What we seem to have here is a bunch of "nosey do-gooders" seeking to apply their moral standards on others by shopping them to the relevant authorities having spotted reasonably convincing evidence that an offence is being committed.

On the other side, there is another group, who find this application of ones own standards to another person to be reprehensible, and apply THEIR moral standards to the first group, ladling out snide comments and condemnation.

The first group may or may not, depending on ones own viewpoint, have a moral right to choose to support the authorities as indeed those authorities have requested.

The second group have every right to find this distasteful, but it may be seen as hypocrisy to say "this is not my business" and then enter the debate in condemnation of the first group.

In short, if you consider it your moral duty to shop the APPARENTLY unlicenced, then a licence evader took this on when they failed to licence their boat and have no-one else to blame.

If you consider licence evasion and the efforts to stamp it out "none of my business" then butt out! It is, as you say, not your business.

 

Tey've even got their own pub:

noseyparker

[Sir Nibble]

None of my busibodiness. Not interested how other people live their lives.

[carlt]

I'm not interested until they start interfering in other peoples' lives.

 

I don't start it, but if they want to broadcast their nosiness then I'm happy to take the p**s.

[Carrie]

Hurray for freeloaders and non-payers of licences everywhere! Wish I was brave enough to follow suit but I hate being hassled by jumped-up people enjoying weilding their little bit of power over others.

I wonder what it is that people are rushing to defend when they get in a huff over non-payers? BW is a company, seeking, like all companies, to make a fat profit. They rely on the curtain-twitchers in this country to safeguard their income.

It reminds me a bit of corporations like NIKE. You sell your T-shirts at ridiculously high prices to kids who happily go around with a big tick on their chests - walking billboards for the corporation. People pay to be able to advertise their products - brilliant! Why be a corporation slave?

Back to BW. I'm not saying they don't do good work and I've met some pleasant people working for BW, (down at the waterline). But I feel that no-one/everyone owns the canals, not one company and just wish we (all users of the waterways) could learn to muck in and maintain them ourselves. No licences, free safety inspections by people with more knowledge than others, helping each other out with boat problems, no stoopid divisions between continual cruisers and residentials. BW bosses go hang.

[Nic]

Surely there is a difference between rigorously snooping on all boats on a stretch and reporting when licenses have expired and concern over a dilapidated boat with one 4 years expired.

 

BW's long drawn out process means that its really those who've forgotten about their boats, which eventually get removed. You see plenty of boats on 14-day moorings that have been there for months, and the odd forgotten boat that's sinking or sunk that BW will still take several months to action

[carlt]

Surely there is a difference between rigorously snooping on all boats on a stretch and reporting when licenses have expired and concern over a dilapidated boat with one 4 years expired.

Difference in the boats maybe. No difference in that it's none of anyone's busibodiness.

[haggis]

Hurray for freeloaders and non-payers of licences everywhere!

 

Great idea. No one pays any licence or mooring fees. The fact that this will reduce BWs income by several hundred thousand pounds is neither here not there. We won't mind at all if they have no money to repair the canals, they can just let all the water drain out when there is a leak. Broken lock gates? No money? No problem, just leave them broken. The main thing is that we, the boaters, are not paying anything to be on the canal so everyone is happy.

When BW lost a large chunk of its income from DERRA last year and they were told that they could expect a much reduced grant from the Government in the future, after they made several hundred staff redundant, they had to cut back on the maintenance of the canals. It would be great if the Government would give BW all the money it needs to maintain the 200year old structures properly but I think there is more chance of pigs flying. So I will carry on contributing to BWs income in the hope that they can carry on maintaining the canals. I don't really want to see them return to what they were like about 20 years ago.

If caring about the canals makes me at odds with most of the people taking part in this discussion that is just too bad.

[carlt]

I don't really want to see them return to what they were like about 20 years ago.

 

Were you there? It was Great!

 

If caring about the canals makes me at odds with most of the people taking part in this discussion that is just too bad.

There you go with your assumptions again.

[haggis]

Were you there? It was Great!

 

Yes, I was there. I agree that it was great fun setting out to travel somewhere on the canal and not really knowing if you would get there or if you did how long it would take. It was not unusual to have to "operate" on a lock mechanism so that it would work. Lock landings? What were they? Just jump for what you thought might be the banking and it it wasn’t you got your feet wet. The canals were much less busy which also was good but these days are gone now.

 

There you go with your assumptions again.

 

Sorry, perhaps I should have said "some" instead of "most" but I get the feeling that I am in a minority on this one.

[fuzzyduck]

It is an offence to fail to display the licenceOK, I have a solution that should satisfy those who wish to report licence evaders, and those who believe that their licencing status is between them and BW....* In addition to paid employees, BW already have voluntary workers (assistant lock keepers for example)* The same idea could be extended to licence checking, and BW could invite people to become "volunteer licence inspectors".* Volunteer Licence Inspectors would attend a half day briefing and be given an appointment card.* The same people that you condemn now could continue to look out for licence dodgers, but as they were now appointed by BW, you wouldn't mind

 

£100 fine for not displaying disks?? Jeeze I was going to get a permanent licence, don't think I'll bother now.

 

I think I'll go back to making sure my temporary licence papers are displayed on the offside of the boat again.

[carlt]

Sorry, perhaps I should have said "some" instead of "most" but I get the feeling that I am in a minority on this one.

It's very arrogant to assume you're in the minority of people who care about the canals, just because your views differ from others.

[haggis]

It's very arrogant to assume you're in the minority of people who care about the canals, just because your views differ from others.

 

Sorry, just crawling back into my kennel in disgrace. Didn't mean to sound arrogant. I am sure that everyone on here cares very much about the canals. I was going to say that they just don't wnat to pay to have them maintained but that would probably be making another assumption and being arrogant.

 

Just to set the record staright.

1, I pay my licence and mooring fees and I expect others who benefit from being on the canal to do the same

2. I don't clype on boats which appear not to be licensed

3. I see no reason to castigate people who do

4. I care about the canals and I don't really wnat to see them deteriorate again

[adam1uk]

I wonder what it is that people are rushing to defend when they get in a huff over non-payers? BW is a company, seeking, like all companies, to make a fat profit. They rely on the curtain-twitchers in this country to safeguard their income.

 

It's really not. BW gets a government grant of £72million a year, which dwarfs the money raised from licences. It means that non-boaters pay far more than boaters do.

 

It's surely up to individuals whether they report apparent non-payers or not. But think how much time and money BW spends chasing them and possibly taking them to court. I'd rather they didn't have to, and could spend the money on things like maintenence, dredging, and grass cutting which would make everyone's experience better. Which is why I have little sympathy for people who don't pay.

[Tomska]

There is a car park at Tyle Mill on th K&A which has always been free. BW last month put a pay & display machine in the car park and are charging an eye-watering £1 an hour to park in a rural car park which requires next to no upkeep (it's just rough gravel).

 

If you saw someone park there without paying for a ticket, would you grass on them too? Just think - a £60 penalty notice would represent even more funds towards the sterling work BW do...

 

I can't help feeling there's something particularly repulsive about this kind of running-to-teacher. It's just not the kind of thing that normal people do.

[carlt]

It means that non-boaters pay far more than boaters do.

 

 

Okay....whatever proportion of the £72million pounds the non-boating taxpayer contributes to maintaining this national asset, the boating taxpayer also contributes, plus the boat and mooring tax.

 

Therefore the non-boating taxpayer pays less than the boating tax payer.

Edited August 1, 2007 by carlt

[fuzzyduck]

Lets not bandy round words like stupidity

 

I read that as "en mass, non boating taxpayers contribute more than boating taxpayers, as a proportion of the total"

[carlt]

Lets not bandy round words like stupidity

 

I read that as "en mass, non boating taxpayers contribute more than boating taxpayers, as a proportion of the total"

Fair enough. But that would go for any public assets that are used by the minority, but are owned by everybody.

[fender]

It is an offence to fail to display the licenceOK, I have a solution that should satisfy those who wish to report licence evaders, and those who believe that their licencing status is between them and BW....* In addition to paid employees, BW already have voluntary workers (assistant lock keepers for example)* The same idea could be extended to licence checking, and BW could invite people to become "volunteer licence inspectors".* Volunteer Licence Inspectors would attend a half day briefing and be given an appointment card.* The same people that you condemn now could continue to look out for licence dodgers, but as they were now appointed by BW, you wouldn't mind

 

There was an abortive scheme in London of this kind - ultimately it was decided that it was BW's responsibility entirely to record/chase unlicensed boats.

[saltysplash]

How about........we all get fed up with paying road fund licence, not every one does and the dvla spends fortunes every year trying to catch the dodgers. If the tax was put on fuel evryone would pay. those with big engines would pay more those who only use the car to get to morrisons wouldpay less and even travellers and visiting foreigners would pay. why not do the same for canalside/riverside diesel outlets. those who stay tied to the mooring for months on end pay less, those who use the system and its assets pay more (depending on the efficiency of their engines) they could even use a coloured dye in the fuel....green for instance.

[Gary Stacey]

I dont get my fuel from beside the canal?! (got 4000 litres for free!)

[carlt]

How about........we all get fed up with paying road fund licence, not every one does and the dvla spends fortunes every year trying to catch the dodgers. If the tax was put on fuel evryone would pay. those with big engines would pay more those who only use the car to get to morrisons wouldpay less and even travellers and visiting foreigners would pay. why not do the same for canalside/riverside diesel outlets. those who stay tied to the mooring for months on end pay less, those who use the system and its assets pay more (depending on the efficiency of their engines) they could even use a coloured dye in the fuel....green for instance.

 

Can't argue with that one. Many more enlightened govts. have abolished road tax, the disc replaced with an 'insurance paid' disc, something far more important when a pimped up fiat uno has just driven up your jacksey. Funnily enough their fuel prices are less than ours too.

[Hairy-Neil]

Can't argue with that one. Many more enlightened govts. have abolished road tax, the disc replaced with an 'insurance paid' disc, something far more important when a pimped up fiat uno has just driven up your jacksey......

 

Why the need for a disc at all. Anyone in the 'need to know' category has the licenced/unlicenced information available at their fingertips in seconds......