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Electric boats - the future???


MJG

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4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Urban lamp posts are spaced between 30m and 50m apart, if each lamp-post can only support one 5-7Kw charger how will the 6 - 8 - 10 cars parked between the lamp-posts get their supply ?

Are folks expected to come down in the middle of the night so they can move the charged car, and the rest shuffle forward one-car length ?

Has that been answered anywhere ?

Do you fill your car up with petrol/diesel every day Alan? Its the same with EVs we top up ours once or twice a week. 

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6 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Do you fill your car up with petrol/diesel every day Alan? Its the same with EVs we top up ours once or twice a week. 

 

Not since I retired, but whilst working I'd often be filling up twice a day (400 miles most days & up to 800 or1000 miles a day was not unusual) Our company cars were changed at 60,000 miles and They'd be only a little over 1 year old when they were sold.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Your one to talk, you soon shot my post down with ammonia made from wind power electricity

I was going to comment on it apparently the ICE for the job is quite special, we are at the beginning of change so all sorts will be thrown into the mix. No doubt something will emerge as the winner, a bit like EVs versus hydrogen in cars 

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Not since I retired, but whilst working I'd often be filling up twice a day (800 to 1000 miles a day was not unusual) Our company cars were changed at 60,000 miles and They'd be only a little over 1 year old when they were sold.

So climate change is your fault Alan!!!! 🤣🤣

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11 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I was going to comment on it apparently the ICE for the job is quite special, we are at the beginning of change so all sorts will be thrown into the mix. No doubt something will emerge as the winner, a bit like EVs versus hydrogen in cars 

So climate change is your fault Alan!!!! 🤣🤣

 

I have certainly made my contribution - I'd occasionally fly from Manchester to Eindhoven for a 30 minute meeting and be back in Manchester by lunch-time.

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I have certainly made my contribution - I'd occasionally fly from Manchester to Eindhoven for a 30 minute meeting and be back in Manchester by lunch-time.

The reality is Alan it was the norm at the time we know better now so things need to change!

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2 hours ago, peterboat said:

The reality is Alan it was the norm at the time we know better now so things need to change!

Absolutely not. My other half was called to mid Scotland a couple of weeks ago to appear at a trade show(non appearance would mean zero orders from the businesses). Wifey had planned the drive up(9 hours), 2 or 3 overnight stops in case she had to visit other folks, then 9 hours back. (18 hours driving is lost sales time). 

I realised that this also clashed with COP26 so thought sideways booked her flights from Luton/Edinburgh return(£49), and a low impact car hire for a single day. An overnight at budget Premier Inn with tram to and from hotel/airport. I dropped wifey at airport in her hybrid car at 8am, and picked up next day at 10am, home by 12. 

This meant that Kathy was productive the whole time, managing to work during travel both ways, and meant that 4 days was reduced to a single day of trade show work with other work being possible too.

 

It is still possible to travel and do business, you have to think clever though, and out of the box sometimes.

 

Oh, and current leads from the visit are around £.5m worth of business so far.

Edited by matty40s
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3 hours ago, peterboat said:

Do you fill your car up with petrol/diesel every day Alan? Its the same with EVs we top up ours once or twice a week. 

 

But that's just you. With 6 to 10 cars per lamp post with those cars owned by different people how is it going to work - If it's not my turn to be on the charger but I've had to do a long run today and am going to have to do a long one tomorrow I could be without anywhere to charge.

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10 hours ago, StephenA said:

 

But that's just you. With 6 to 10 cars per lamp post with those cars owned by different people how is it going to work - If it's not my turn to be on the charger but I've had to do a long run today and am going to have to do a long one tomorrow I could be without anywhere to charge.

Charge at a rapid charger? Currently I can charge at home but charge for free whilst shopping, no doubt the same chargers will be available except more of them lots more. 

11 hours ago, matty40s said:

Absolutely not. My other half was called to mid Scotland a couple of weeks ago to appear at a trade show(non appearance would mean zero orders from the businesses). Wifey had planned the drive up(9 hours), 2 or 3 overnight stops in case she had to visit other folks, then 9 hours back. (18 hours driving is lost sales time). 

I realised that this also clashed with COP26 so thought sideways booked her flights from Luton/Edinburgh return(£49), and a low impact car hire for a single day. An overnight at budget Premier Inn with tram to and from hotel/airport. I dropped wifey at airport in her hybrid car at 8am, and picked up next day at 10am, home by 12. 

This meant that Kathy was productive the whole time, managing to work during travel both ways, and meant that 4 days was reduced to a single day of trade show work with other work being possible too.

 

It is still possible to travel and do business, you have to think clever though, and out of the box sometimes.

 

Oh, and current leads from the visit are around £.5m worth of business so far.

Then hopefully we will follow France's lead and ban internal flights 

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8 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Charge at a rapid charger? Currently I can charge at home but charge for free whilst shopping, no doubt the same chargers will be available except more of them lots more. 

Then hopefully we will follow France's lead and ban internal flights 

A great bit of fake news there! France has banned internal flights where the journey could be made by train in less than 2.5 hours. I think you would struggle to get from the London area, to Edinburgh, by train in under 2.5 hours.

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1 hour ago, peterboat said:

Then hopefully we will follow France's lead and ban internal flights 

 

Given France has already developed a superb high speed rail (electric) system then that is entirely the right thing to do.

 

We however are in the process of scaling ours back.

 

Edit - and if you opt to drive instead their Autoroutes are in general far superior to our motorways here too. Yes of course you pay for the privilege on some but driving long distances in France is a far more pleasurable experience than driving in the UK.

 

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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19 hours ago, IanD said:

 

 

 

 

19 hours ago, IanD said:

Don't forget that if we assume that new EVs are 100% of the market by 2030 (UK target) it'll be 2035 before half the cars on the road are EVs, and 2040 before all of them are.

Does this mean that we will be scrapping all ICE cars in 2040?

I think you will be lucky to get to 50% by 2040 as many people (me included) run cars that are well over ten years old, the present fleet are 11 and 18 years old respectively, neither of which are even close to end of life.

 

 

Edited by Loddon
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10 minutes ago, Loddon said:

 

Does this mean that we will be scrapping all ICE cars in 2040?

I think you will be lucky to get to 50% by 2040 as many people (me included) run cars that are well over ten years old, the present fleet are 11 and 18 years old respectively, neither of which are even close to end of life.

 

The average age of a car at scrapping is about ten years, so if you scrap yours later others will scrap them earlier.

 

I used some simple figures to describe the situation, I should have said "pretty much all"; of course in reality there will be a small long-tail (a few percent) who stay with ICEs over 10 years old beyond 2040. But by then most of the petrol stations will have closed due to lack of business so it'll be hard to find fuel, when you can find it it'll be expensive due to CO2 penalty taxes, if you want to drive into any big cities you'll be hit by ULEV charges, and ICE road tax will have gone through the roof. It'll be cheaper and more friendly to the environment to replace them with a secondhand EV, and only a few die-hards will continue driving ICE.

 

In other words a very different situation to today, where people can carry on driving old ICE with few downsides and EVs are still expensive and sometimes difficult to charge. The world is changing, and cars will change with it.

Edited by IanD
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27 minutes ago, IanD said:

It'll be cheaper and more friendly to the environment to replace them with a secondhand EV, and only a few die-hards will continue driving ICE.

 

If it takes as Volvo say 70,000 km before an EV is greener than an ICE car (including manufacturing) then if I replaced our 2nd car today I would be fifteen years before it hit the breakpoint as we only do about 3.5k year.  Not to mention the many thousands it would cost me to purchase an EV.

As for the ULEV charges I have no need to go to places like that so it will never affect me.

 

There is far to much Greenwash about from those with vested interests.

 

ETA

I've just had a quick look around at our family and apart from BIL all the cars are over ten years with mine at 11 being one of the newer ones.

Edited by Loddon
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14 minutes ago, Loddon said:

If it takes as Volvo say 70,000 km before an EV is greener than an ICE car (including manufacturing) then if I replaced our 2nd car today I would be fifteen years before it hit the breakpoint as we only do about 3.5k year.  Not to mention the many thousands it would cost me to purchase an EV.

As for the ULEV charges I have no need to go to places like that so it will never affect me.

 

There is far to much Greenwash about from those with vested interests.

 

 

So you didn't actually read what I wrote, then... 😉

 

The vast majority of people in the UK will be driving EVs by 2040. That's not what I say, it's what the government and the entire automotive industry and all the analysts say, and these are not people famed for greenwashing, in fact exactly the opposite. I'm not an EV fanatic, I don't even have one, but I can see which way the wind is blowing and it's electric not fossil fuel.

 

If you want to be one of the small minority who want to stay with ICE after then, fill your boots -- it's doubtful that they will be banned, they'll just become more expensive to run and more inconvenient to fill up when many petrol stations have closed and the remainder have mostly converted to EV charging stations, because the market for petrol will have shrunk massively.

 

If you're buying a cheap secondhand EV then the manufacturing penalty has already been paid, probably by the first owner or two getting to the "eco-break-even" point. You then have the choice of carrying on driving your old and increasingly expensive and difficult to refuel ICE, or buying a cheap secondhand EV. For most people this will be a no-brainer, the EV will be cheaper and more convenient. If it's not for you, don't buy one.

Edited by IanD
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9 minutes ago, IanD said:

So you didn't actually read what I wrote, then... 😉

 

The vast majority of people in the UK will be driving EVs by 2040. That's not what I say, it's what the government and the entire automotive industry and all the analysts say, and these are not people famed for greenwashing, in fact exactly the opposite. I'm not an EV fanatic, I don't even have one, but I can see which way the wind is blowing and it's electric not fossil fuel.

 

If you want to be one of the small minority who want to stay with ICE after then, fill your boots -- it's doubtful that they will be banned, they'll just become more expensive to run and more inconvenient to fill up when many petrol stations have closed and the remainder have mostly converted to EV charging stations, because the market for petrol will have shrunk massively.

 

If you're buying a cheap secondhand EV then the manufacturing penalty has already been paid, probably by the first owner or two getting to the "eco-break-even" point. You then have the choice of carrying on driving your old and increasingly expensive and difficult to refuel ICE, or buying a cheap secondhand EV. For most people this will be a no-brainer, the EV will be cheaper and more convenient. If it's not for you, don't buy one.

Is there an EV that can tow a large caravan or a boat that weighs over a Ton that doesn't cost the earth?

No thought not.

I did read what you posted before your edit 😉

 

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3 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Is there an EV that can tow a large caravan or a boat that weighs over a Ton that doesn't cost the earth?

No thought not.

I did read what you posted before your edit 😉

 

Problem is Julian the government doesn't care and as time goes on less and less people can tow. Electric campervan will be a reality so no towing required 

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23 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Is there an EV that can tow a large caravan or a boat that weighs over a Ton that doesn't cost the earth?

No thought not.

I did read what you posted before your edit 😉

 

<sigh> we've had this discussion many times before, usually with AdE banging the same drum...

 

No there aren't -- yet...

 

EVs that can do this are appearing on the new car market, and eventually will trickle down onto the secondhand market, and eventually onto the cheap "e-banger" market -- neither of which really exists at the moment, because EVs haven't been around for long enough or in big enough volumes. You might as well complain that there aren't any cheap second-hand touchscreen phones to buy the year after the iPhone was launched... 😉

 

When they do that in maybe 5-10 years time (depending on how old a car you're looking for), you can buy one if you want to. Or not, if you don't.

 

You can't take the EV/ICE situation today and use arguments like this as if they'll still be valid in 10/15/20 years time, because they won't be, the car landscape will have completely changed -- as it should do, and needs to.

Edited by IanD
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20 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Problem is Julian the government doesn't care and as time goes on less and less people can tow. Electric campervan will be a reality so no towing required 

Yet again you're assuming everyone else wants to do what you do... 😉

 

There will still be people who'll want to tow heavy stuff (like Loddon and AdE), and there will be EVs capable of doing just that if they want to buy them.

 

If they don't, they can carry on driving ICE, so long as they're happy with the increasing cost and decreasing convenience.

Edited by IanD
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27 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Problem is Julian the government doesn't care and as time goes on less and less people can tow. Electric campervan will be a reality so no towing required 

Do you mean less and less(sic) people are qualified /licensed to tow? If so the law is changing imminently to allow anyone to tow a trailer up to 3.5tonnes.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/new-rules-for-towing-a-trailer-or-caravan-with-a-car-from-autumn-2021

 Anyway, an electric camper van will be no help with my glider.

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41 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Problem is Julian the government doesn't care and as time goes on less and less people can tow. Electric campervan will be a reality so no towing required 

Will that be like the old caraboat so can be used on water as well😄

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