routerfixer Posted March 26, 2017 Report Share Posted March 26, 2017 Hi Everyone, Last year I had a small leak from my K2 water pump packing gland, with your help I added an extra turn of packing to try and stop the leak. Well it slowed it a little but never quite stopped it, this week I decided to strip the pump and have a proper look. Now I know the problem. In the picture where the stem arrow is pointing the shaft has been worn away, probably due to over tightening of the packing gland. It is grooved and about 1-2mm narrower, I have rebuilt it all with new packing but it still leaks. Might just be the new packing needs some time to settle and another turn might fix it (wishful thinking). Advice time, Is it possible someone out there will still have replacement parts? It was mentioned in my previous post by Markinaboat that he had to turn down the shaft and fit a sleeve, this might be the direction I am heading. What company should I be asking to do this type of work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEngo Posted March 26, 2017 Report Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) A whole new stainless steel stem would be my choice. That assumes the crosshead can be got off the stem easily. You would need to find a jobbing engineering company to do the work- someone with a small lathe. Your local model engineering society will also probably have someone who could do it. Also try Primrose Engineering - RLWP on here. For parts try RW Davis, Dick Goble or Seaward Engineering. Any second hand stem is likely to be worn to some extent. Where are you/ where is the engine? N Edited March 26, 2017 by BEngo Get Richards handle right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billh Posted March 26, 2017 Report Share Posted March 26, 2017 With an underloaded K2 and a boat name like that, there will surely be "Smoke on the Water" Sorry ,can't help with the pump shaft. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikexx Posted March 27, 2017 Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 On 26/03/2017 at 10:52, BEngo said: A whole new stainless steel stem would be my choice. That assumes the crosshead can be got off the stem easily. You would need to find a jobbing engineering company to do the work- someone with a small lathe. Your local model engineering society will also probably have someone who could do it. Also try Primrose Engineering - RLWP on here. For parts try RW Davis, Dick Goble or Seaward Engineering. Any second hand stem is likely to be worn to some extent. Where are you/ where is the engine? N I'm wondering if the crosshead can't be removed if the stem can't be turned down and a sleeve fitted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEngo Posted March 27, 2017 Report Share Posted March 27, 2017 8 minutes ago, Mikexx said: I'm wondering if the crosshead can't be removed if the stem can't be turned down and a sleeve fitted? It could, provided the thread in the nut shown holding the leathers on is small enough to allow the stem to be turned down enough. There will be some loss of strength, depending on how any sleeve is secured, but given the general Kelvin approach of making everything plenty big enough, that shouldn't be a problem. It is just that it would be easier (cheaper) to make a new stem than bugger around making a sleeve to fit a turned down stem and the mnaking sure it was fitted concentric with the stem. N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
routerfixer Posted March 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 Does anyone know how the crosshead and the shaft are connected? it looked to me like it was 1 piece on Saturday maybe it is braised, there was a curved shoulder where the 2 parts meet. One possibility, could I fill the worn section with solder to reduce the thinning? even if it was a short term solution that would stop/reduce the leak while a more permanent fix is worked on. If the 2 parts can be separated then getting a new shaft made should be easy. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEngo Posted March 29, 2017 Report Share Posted March 29, 2017 53 minutes ago, routerfixer said: Does anyone know how the crosshead and the shaft are connected? it looked to me like it was 1 piece on Saturday maybe it is braised, there was a curved shoulder where the 2 parts meet. One possibility, could I fill the worn section with solder to reduce the thinning? even if it was a short term solution that would stop/reduce the leak while a more permanent fix is worked on. If the 2 parts can be separated then getting a new shaft made should be easy. Steve Ordinary solder is far too soft and will not work for more than a few minutes. You should be able to build the shaft up by welding, (that is how I had a governor input shaft recovered) depending on what it is actually made of, though the risk is that the localised heat of the arc will lead to a curved shaft. You need to have someone experience do this. Better would be metal spraying, but that has gone out of fashion because it is hard to get a good key so wearing surfaces don't come off again and it is expensive. You could have a go at building up with bronze welding rods (brazing rods) as they are harder than solder. The shaft will need to be red hot but that can be achieved evenly so no risk of bending it. Bronze is a reasonable surface for packing to bear on so it should last a while. I have the single acting water pump on my J so I have no knowledge of the crosshead to stem attachment. It is most unlikely that the crosshead and the stem are made from one piece because that would be a monumental waste of material unless the starting point was a forging. I suspect that the crosshead is screwed onto the stem, and maybe pinned. What are the various bits made of? What do the holes shown in the crosshead do? Could you put up a few pictures of the actual item? If the worst came to it I would look at making both a new crosshead and a new stem, either from one piece or, more easily, in two parts bonded together. I have the tackle to do this but am way down in the West Country. Jim ( Koukouvagia) may be able to provide some useful input as he has a K2 which was recently overhauled. N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrtm Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 I suspect its worn due to sitting at somepoint for a long time at that spot right on the seal. You maybe able to have the shaft cut off drilled and tapped and new shaft added if it was made in 1 part. If not youll need a cnc machinest and the old part with the parts around it e.g. the hole the shaft goes into and any other bits this fits into and they can make one fairly easly worst you would need a lathe and get a big block of stainless and make a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koukouvagia Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 On 3/26/2017 at 09:08, routerfixer said: Hi Everyone, Last year I had a small leak from my K2 water pump packing gland, with your help I added an extra turn of packing to try and stop the leak. Well it slowed it a little but never quite stopped it, this week I decided to strip the pump and have a proper look. Now I know the problem. In the picture where the stem arrow is pointing the shaft has been worn away, probably due to over tightening of the packing gland. It is grooved and about 1-2mm narrower, I have rebuilt it all with new packing but it still leaks. Might just be the new packing needs some time to settle and another turn might fix it (wishful thinking). Advice time, Is it possible someone out there will still have replacement parts? It was mentioned in my previous post by Markinaboat that he had to turn down the shaft and fit a sleeve, this might be the direction I am heading. What company should I be asking to do this type of work? I have a spare water pump which is for a K2. At some stage Kelvins changed the specs and this pump won't fit my engine. PM me and I'll see if it's any good for your engine. It's a long time since I dug it out, but I'm pretty sure that the stem and crosshead is OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake_crew Posted May 3, 2017 Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 I'd be interested in seeing a picture of the pump externally. Is it a reciprocating type like this, running off the cam shaft ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
routerfixer Posted May 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2017 1 hour ago, jake_crew said: I'd be interested in seeing a picture of the pump externally. Is it a reciprocating type like this, running off the cam shaft ? Yes it runs off a cam/crank shaft that also drives the injector pump and the regulator I had a look through the pictures I have and the only 1 of the pump is this one I will get a decent photo next time I get to the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markinaboat Posted May 5, 2017 Report Share Posted May 5, 2017 (edited) I'm sure I pm'd someone earlier on this. I rebuilt the pump on my K3 (do not have that boat anymore) including having the shaft turned and sleeved, new leather cup seals from a company in the Midlands. New packing and valves cleaned out. Dick Goble did a lot of the work but also had trouble sourcing spares at the time (2014).The Kelvin spares are now available via club membership form this guy who took the lot on from Kevin Whittle. He's extremely helpful and knowledgeable. phil@greatnineveh.org.uk Hope this helps. Edited May 5, 2017 by Markinaboat date correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bee Posted May 5, 2017 Report Share Posted May 5, 2017 Unless the shaft is badly scored or grooved I would imagine just turning a few thou off it until its nice and smooth and straight would fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
routerfixer Posted May 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2017 Here are a couple of photos taken earlier today you can see the whole pump and the rotating shaft that drives it and the injector pump and governor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake_crew Posted May 7, 2017 Report Share Posted May 7, 2017 thats great thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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