RCD Guide

[stegra]

Hi. Could anyone point me in the direction of easy-to-digest resources for the Recreational Craft Directive (online or book)? I've been searching the forum and managed to find a list of relevant ISOs  and found out about the very useful Manchester Libraries links to BSOL. The problem is that each ISO seems to incorporate dozens of other ISOs which in turn contain more again. The whole thing just becomes a confused mess.

I've worked in the building trade for 30 years and we have guides to help navigate the building regulations that put things in less convoluted terms. Are there such guides for the RCD? Thanks.

[David Mack]

Some info at http://britishmarine.co.uk/Resources/Knowledge-Centre/Technical/Recreational-Craft-Directive . But while it says they have produced guides and handbooks for members and non members, it doesn't provide links to these. When I have looked at the BMF site in the past anything useful has been available to members only, and membership is only open to the trade.

[Neil Smith]

Register yourself as a boat fitted and join, but the whole guide is very expensive i have read.

Neil

[WotEver]

7 hours ago, David Mack said:

Some info at http://britishmarine.co.uk/Resources/Knowledge-Centre/Technical/Recreational-Craft-Directive . But while it says they have produced guides and handbooks for members and non members, it doesn't provide links to these. When I have looked at the BMF site in the past anything useful has been available to members only, and membership is only open to the trade.

Here's one: http://britishmarine.co.uk/Services/Business-Support/Technical-Support/~/media/C97CE3194B6D4063AD7C1D073D5D5323.ashx

It gives a basic overview with links to each of the relevant standards. 

[WotEver]

Similar from the RYA: https://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/technical/Web Documents/RCD Documents/1 RCD Compliance Guide.pdf

And a concise list of exactly what you need to cover here: http://www.marinesurveysltd.co.uk/recreational_craft_directive_summary.htm

[stegra]

Thanks for the replies. Also wondering how far I'm required to meet RCD standards. It's a brand new shell; I intend to keep it long beyond five years but I don't want to prohibitively limit my options should I be faced with a major upheaval in life. I've read about an exclusion for home-built boat not put on the market for five years. Is this a significant factor with regard to compliance and costs?

[Alan de Enfield]

There was a similar thread a few days ago.

 

Basically - you are committing a criminal offence if you sell an non-RCD boat within 5 years.

You can quite legally build without an RCD

If you sell a non-RCD boat after the five year period you are likely to get a lower price than a boat built, and with, RCD compliance certificate.

 

My boat had no RCD and I purchased it at about £10k less than I expect it could have fetched with an RCD. It was advertised at a competitive 'market price' ( at a 'with' RCD price') but had no takers, so as I rolled up (not having a care in the world) with a carrier bag full of £20s, and didn't want a survey I got it with a 20% discount even tho' it was outside the 5 year limit

 

Our other boat was a 'family death sale' and again - for a quick sale, no survey, cash - I achieved £65k off the asking price.

 

It will be your boat, if you die it will not be your problem - it depends on how you see the future.

[David Mack]

15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Basically - you are committing a criminal offence if you sell an non-RCD boat within 5 years.

Its worse than that. You are committing an offence if you merely offer a non-RCD boat for sale within 5 years, even if nobody buys it.

On the other hand, if somebody approaches you out of the blue with an offer you can't refuse, then you should be in the clear, as the boat will never have been offered on the EU market.

 

[Neil Smith]

37 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Its worse than that. You are committing an offence if you merely offer a non-RCD boat for sale within 5 years, even if nobody buys it.

On the other hand, if somebody approaches you out of the blue with an offer you can't refuse, then you should be in the clear, as the boat will never have been offered on the EU market.

 

That's News to me, I thought you could not sell it full stop so a loophole exists if you go about it the right way.

Neil

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, Neil Smith said:

That's News to me, I thought you could not sell it full stop ..........................

I agree with you - although the legislation says 'placed on the market' I think that the legal eagles would argue that it could not be sold if it was not 'on the market'.

If you accept an unsolicited offer you have accepted that it is for sale, and, therefore 'on the market'.

[stegra]

Ok. Thanks. I'm now convinced the the RCD is definitely a necessity. When I tried to make sense of it all through the different ISOs, I couldn't see how any individual could justify the time and effort needed to research all the regs., hence my asking for a guide. I guess my main concerns about a change of circumstance would be a major health issue or suddenly facing the prospect of parenthood; (I'm not sure which of those I find most undesirable). In either case, any hindrance in marketing the boat would certainly be an additional stress. The other possibility is that I find the whole experience far more enjoyable and worthwhile than real-life and want to start all over again; in which case the RCD will be needed anyway.

[Neil Smith]

I built mine without rcd but in hind site probably would have if I thought things through, but as usual with me just ploughed on until finished and on the water.

Neil

[mross]

1 hour ago, stegra said:

or suddenly facing the prospect of parenthood;

Avoid unwanted pregnancy - always give a false address!

[mrsmelly]

I employed a boat surveyor when I did my new build he oversaw the boat during my fitting it and produced a lovely shiney RCD folder with all the gubbins in it for me for a price which was well worth it.

[stegra]

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I employed a boat surveyor when I did my new build he oversaw the boat during my fitting it and produced a lovely shiney RCD folder with all the gubbins in it for me for a price which was well worth it.

What kind of price are we talking? If you don't mind me asking. I found this firm mentioned in an earlier thread: http://www.small-craft-consultancy.com/

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, stegra said:

What kind of price are we talking? If you don't mind me asking. I found this firm mentioned in an earlier thread: http://www.small-craft-consultancy.com/

I dont mind at all. It was in 2000 and he charged me 500 notes. He is still working as I saw him a few weeks ago if you would like his details I can pm them to you a fone call wont cost you much after all?

[stegra]

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I dont mind at all. It was in 2000 and he charged me 500 notes. He is still working as I saw him a few weeks ago if you would like his details I can pm them to you a fone call wont cost you much after all?

Yes, please do. I know prices will have changed but one simple mistake could easily cost multiples of that. Thank you.

[mrsmelly]

5 minutes ago, stegra said:

Yes, please do. I know prices will have changed but one simple mistake could easily cost multiples of that. Thank you.

Ive just sent you a pm.

 

cheers

[Murflynn]

£500 would not buy many ISOs, but there again you may find a library that will allow you to copy the relevant parts of the relevant standards at no cost.

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

£500 would not buy many ISOs, but there again you may find a library that will allow you to copy the relevant parts of the relevant standards at no cost.

I am guessing- and I am sure Mr Smelly will confirm or correct, but I imagine the Surveyor just over-saw / checked your work was in compliance, and that he would use your copies of the specifications to ensure compliance.

I would doubt that he would supply all of the relevant ISO's 'in the price'.

 

Is it not like the building inspectors - they come and sign-off each stage

Digging Footings

Foundation to ground level

Walls to scaffold level

To eaves

Roof Trusses / Wall plates

etc etc etc

 

Tim - what did you get for the £500 ?

Edited March 22, 2017 by Alan de Enfield

[mrsmelly]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I am guessing- and I am sure Mr Smelly will confirm or correct, but I imagine the Surveyor just over-saw / checked your work was in compliance, and that he would use your copies of the specifications to ensure compliance.

I would doubt that he would supply all of the relevant ISO's 'in the price'.

 

Is it not like the building inspectors - they come and sign-off each stage

Digging Footings

Foundation to ground level

Walls to scaffold level

To eaves

Roof Trusses / Wall plates

etc etc etc

 

Tim - what did you get for the £500 ?

Hi Alan

He visited on about three occasions if I recall correctly. This was in the early days of RCD he told me how to register as the builder and loads of other stuff he then compiled the folder with all relevant bumff for me. He told me how to comply re lots of stuff like gas and lectric. In short in my case he was a godsend. It was a fair few quid at the time but well worth it to me as I was busy running my pub. 

[Murflynn]

59 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I am guessing- and I am sure Mr Smelly will confirm or correct, but I imagine the Surveyor just over-saw / checked your work was in compliance, and that he would use your copies of the specifications to ensure compliance.

I would doubt that he would supply all of the relevant ISO's 'in the price'.

he wouldn't expect the client to provide the standards, but as a marine surveyor making his living by doing exactly what he did for Smelly he would have access to the standards, probably as a paid-up member of the BSI who allow their members access to all the British and international standards.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Murflynn said:

he wouldn't expect the client to provide the standards, but as a marine surveyor making his living by doing exactly what he did for Smelly he would have access to the standards, probably as a paid-up member of the BSI who allow their members access to all the British and international standards.

Fair point - But - without the 'builder' having his own access to the standards, how could he build to the standards ?

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Fair point - But - without the 'builder' having his own access to the standards, how could he build to the standards ?

I think the reality of it is that we all use the same kit. For instance my shell was supplied by a well known builder who builds his shells to a compliant standard. I bought a new Beta again complies to ce standard etc etc. My woodworking skills didnt come into the equasion ( thank God ) so I was given good advice re all matters pertaining the build and the surveyor suplied all the legal bumff. It can be done by yourself but it depends on how you value your time and how much money you could waste getting something wrong and also finding out all the relevant legislation. There were other things I paid for such as having engine fitted and a proper paint job. I still saved loads and sold it later dead easily.

[stegra]

9 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

...It can be done by yourself but it depends on how you value your time and how much money you could waste getting something wrong and also finding out all the relevant legislation...

This is the point. I don't like to dimiss anything that the future might hold; even the (ahem!) "joys of parenting" but this project is the realisation of a dream for me that's rooted in the early 1980's. If I thought there was any realistic prospect of fitting out boats for a living then I'd be comfortable investing in the related knowledge. But for a single project, the work involved in studying must be greater than the actual manual aspect.

I will say that I fully approve of a system that enables a self-builder to be judged alongside a professional on equal terms. When I fitted out a campervan it was always in the back of one's mind that it would be forever labelled 'self-build', regardless of its quality or the relative quality of many professionally built vans. In the building trade the signing-off by an inspector legitimises your work and nobody questions it. It's comforting to know that a similar rule applies to boats.