B W The rights and wrongs?

[bottle]

My first statement is," I do not wish to step on anybodys toes", and if this topic is removed so be it.

 

 

I ask that comments that are made on this topic be truthful and not hearsay.

 

I also ask that replys from BW are the same and use plain english not corperate speak.

 

Please do not get abusive that only lets yourself down.

 

Please please on this topic do not go

 

Maybe if we work together something will be done.

 

Do not sit on the fence.

 

It is up to you now .

 

I have no comment to make besause at the moment do not own a boat.

[Richard Bustens]

Have you been drinking Bottle.

What's the bl***y question?

Edited February 26, 2005 by Richard Bustens

[DHutch]

What's the  bl***y question?

 

Yeah, i though that when i read it!

[Amicus]

I have no comment to make besause at the moment do not own a boat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

e said e dont av a comment to make. Thass clear enuff innit.

I av bin drinking

issa laff init?

[bottle]

If you read the heading there is an open question.

 

Britsh Waterways The rights and wrongs.

 

This is your chance to say.

 

On this forum is the public relations officer of British Waterways.

 

PUT YOUR POINTS AND WE MAY GET SOME ANSWERS and /or influence their decisions

 

Please bear in mind my requests I do not want a slanging match.

 

See my first post

[Richard Bustens]

Sorry Bottle old chap.

But most of us hear are a bit simple.

Well i am at least.

Still don't understand the question.

 

Rights and wrongs of what?

[maffi mushkila]

Sorry Bottle old chap.

But most of us hear are a bit simple.

Well i am at least.

Still don't understand the question.

 

Rights and wrongs of what?

 

The Question is I think have your say about BW good or bad (but we do that anyway)

 

I think Bottle is trying to get BW likes and dislikes in one place.

[Gary Peacock]

In my limited experience BW foot soldiers the staff on the waterways are great, but further up the chain of command to wards those Ivory Towers I feel the bureaucrats rule supreme and it is here like most government departments that the pound notes flow down numerous plug holes and decisions are made based on the volume of wine consumed over lunch.

 

Sod this boat building sketch politics here I come!

 

Gary

[bottle]

Thank you Maffi and Gary

 

 

On a recent post there was a discusion on the the way BW works , is it for boaters, fishermen ,walkers etc or purely to make a profit.

What about their licence stategy "its not worth chasing licence dodgers" allegedly.

 

As Maffi said put all your suggestions, criticisms in one place, there are members of BW management that are on this forum and theyhave offered to answer.

 

Please see my first two posts in this topic

[Gary Peacock]

Kicking this off on a positive note.

Well done to BW for the good work recently undertaken in clearing vegetation and generally tiding up the banks on the Calder & Hebble, this not only benefits boaters but also cyclists,walkers and fishermen. They have also being doing some pretty intensive dredging over the last month or so.

 

Gary

[Bernie]

An excellent idea bottle, am pinning it so that it stays at the top.

[Alan Saunders]

I will attempt to make what I believe to be some on-topic comment.

 

BW still has some of the attitudes of a nationalised industry. If there was room for efficiency improvements in the NHS you could say that twofold for BW. I believe that BW know that and are addressing the problem but a large organisation has momentum; it takes years to change direction.

 

In common with all government organisations and some in the private sector their approach to efficiency is not to invest in improvement until the required manpower drops but to 'downsize' the workforce then strengthen the management organisation to deal with the resulting problems.

 

A BW employee, now retired, told me he liked his job but hated having to deal with customers. It seems that when he had to tell boaters that there was a delay for repairs or that they had outstayed their welcome on visitor moorings, water points, landing stages etc. they often became abusive. Management were telling him that he was the public face of BW and customer relations were part of his job but probably paying him a semi-skilled wage. Rather than issuing him with modern outdoor gear they spend their money on changing the colours of uniform and vehicles, probably on the advice of some overpaid and over-rated PR agency. Not as bad as 'Consignia' though!

 

I have no complaints about the service 'on the cut'. With only one minor exception I have found the BW staff courteous and helpful at all times. What about the staff who work in 'bandit country' - do they get danger money?

 

I also spoke to a civil engineer who did some of the work on the K&A paid for by the Millennium grant. It seems that a chunk of that grant was spent on feasibility studies. I would have expected BW to be experts on waterway engineering but it seems that they do not have an engineer capable of design and specification. At the commencement of the works he found they had issued a conflicting contract to another company and changed some material specifications resulting in a delay and additional costs. He had also spoken to another engineer who had contracts on the GU and said he had similar experiences.

 

Some complain about the high level of mooring fees but since there are waiting lists the rule of supply and demand dictates that the fees are set at the correct level. The increases may be unwelcome but at least they are announced well in advance.

 

I believe it would be preferable if there were just one navigation authority for all waterways. If there were to be just one authority which would you choose? Would you have the Environment Agency take over BW's role? I doubt it, so BW can't be that bad can they?

 

Alan

[Gary Peacock]

This feature is probably not at the top of BW's list of things for publicity release!

http://society.guardian.co.uk/environment/...1420238,00.html

 

Gary

[DHutch]

They spend their money on changing the colours of uniform and vehicles.

 

Yeah, that exact thing annoyed me alot a fwe years ago.

- I dont mine then changing the colour (although the green was better) that they paint there boats etc, but spuriously repaint boats that had be done only the summer before, just becuase there the the "old" colour is a whacking great waste of our money!

 

 

daniel

[Big COL]

This feature is probably not at the top of BW's list of things for publicity release!

http://society.guardian.co.uk/environment/...1420238,00.html

 

Gary

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hi Gary

 

Certainly doesn't enhance the feeling that BW are the boaters friend in this case. However there are two sides to every story, so I think it would be prudent to wait and see if Eugene is prepared, or allowed to put BW,s point of view, before making any comments.

[timboharticus]

In this day of modern management I would expect BW to have a "Mission Statement" ie. a very brief description of it's aims, and some more detailed policy documents saying how it intends to meet it's objectives.

 

These should be public and should be used to monitor BW's performance.

 

I guess the IWA represent us and we can always writen to the Minister if we have a particular complaint.

[bottle]

Well!!!!

 

 

 

By the use of this forum it looks like BW is getting everything right or are they. .

[Big COL]

Well!!!!

By the use of this forum it looks like BW is getting everything right or are they. .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hi Bottle

 

Well indeed, 2 weeks and no response from Eugene at BW.

[Khayamanzi]

I used to criticise BW until I travelled down onto the River Wey last summer and spoke to people there.....

 

........put up against the National Trusts boating philosophy, BW are fantastic!!

[DHutch]

Yeah, id rather BW to NTrust any day!

 

- Our local wood had just been bought by Natatinal Trust about a year ago. and there moto seams to be "Up with bluebells, down with fun"

 

GRRRRRrrrr, Stupid people!!

 

Daniel

[Phoenix_V]

I have had bad experiences with BW, im only 16 but im lucky enough to own my own boat its a callum craft(i am posting on my dads account though btw) and me and my dad got it on the the thames for free and after a winters work it was ready. Any way last year on my way to the thames, there is a part of the lower river lea just south of tottenham that is always littered with rubbish and weed. That year it was extremely bad and the weed was so thick my outboard would choke up and conk out every few metres (this its self cant be good for an outboard) after lifting my outboard up for the hundredth time maybe (to clear the weed) I noticed half cavitional plate was missing this was clearly due to the excessive amount of rubbish left in the river that had not been cleared for sometime and some =thing must have hit it. I like my boat and I like evrything looking in good condition, I don't have a lot of money so I cannot repair something like this so I wrote to BW explaining the poor state of the river and thought they should pay for the repairs as it is there duty to keep the navigation clear. The response i got was pretty disgusting saying they do there best and gave me some rubbishy figures. I know my dad pays alot for fees etc and i am quite annoyed BW can't be bothered to even attempt to really help me. On the river lee I can't see were the money goes as broken things are often left for months and no work ever takes place. To be honest im so annoyed about it id like to stick 2 fingers up to any BW person I see as in my opinion most of them are lazy and can't be bothered.

[Alan Saunders]

I don't have a lot of money so I cannot repair something like this so I wrote to BW explaining the poor state of the river and thought they should pay for the repairs as it is there duty to keep the navigation clear. The response i got was pretty disgusting saying they do there best and gave me some rubbishy figures. angry:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good for you! I have a lot of sympathy with your view but I would ask that you consider similar scenarios in our modern world.

 

Shortly, you may acquire a car - you will be lucky to get third party insurance for less than £500 per year. If you run over a brick in the road will you expect the authorities to pay for the repairs? If you had a sea-going boat and suffered a similar problem offshore would you expect compensation?

 

The canal system is old and very expensive to maintain. The objects which damaged your outboard motor were not put there by BW - your claim must be against those who did! Sorry, but very likely it was your peers.

 

Over the past ten years or so boaters have demanded more & more facilities which have to be paid for. There are many people who can afford fifty thousand pounds or more for a new boat, against which the licence & mooring fees are of little consequence. I have seen both young and retired boaters forced to give up due to the costs.

 

Someone, somewhere has a cheap (free?) replacement for your damaged anti-cavitation plate, why not put a wanted ad in this forum?. Don't give up - keep on boating. BW do their best - it just ain't good enough for most of us!

 

Good luck - Alan

[Phoenix_V]

You have to have seen the amount of rubbish that was there though to really understand I even took pictures and sent it to them. The rubbish hadnt been touched for weeks and they have 2 dredging machines there doing nothing! Its not just rubbish though, there is also piling with the railways lines with bits sticking out if my boat collided with something like this it would pop a hole into it surely. There reply also didnt say anything about improving my area! It was more of a computer generated answer to be honest! Fortunatly my dad has been nice enough to buy me an engine for spares (£200 though). The fees from what I understand are quite high and from what people tell me places like the thames and broads cost less in fees and they are better maintained. BW have also sold off loads od good site (to some nutters to but thats another story!). At the end of the day Im left with a very sorry looking outboard and a big job to fix it(expenisive too). The fact my dad pays for all the expensive fees which seems to be for nothing is what makes me angry. If it was me id simply stop paying but my dad doesnt want to do that lol. Any way when im old and get a narrow boat maybe I wont have these problems with nice strong diesel engines and brass props!

Edited May 16, 2005 by Phoenix_V

[Paul Evans]

Any way when I'm old and get a narrow boat maybe I won't have these problems with nice strong diesel engines and brass props!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice strong diesel engines can break down as well and, as I can witness, brass props can fall off! A narrowboat can be a bottomless pit when it comes to money but don't let that put you off. If you love the canals - in spite of the rubbish that can collect in them - and really want a narrowboat, then work to achieve your ambition. I'm sure you'll be rewarded in more ways than you can count (unlike the money you'll spend).

 

Welcome to the forum - it's good to know that there are young people out there who will replace us old 'uns.

[John Orentas]

Hi Phoenix, and welcome.

 

From where you are sitting the situation must seem very unjust but you must understand that the situation regarding liability and other issues can be very different with boats compared to many other aspects of life.

 

When we venture out to sea, on rivers, or onto other waterways we are very largely responsible for ourselves and our property, we can't reasonably hold others responsible for the waters that we use, if individuals or authorities were made fully responsible, that in itself would make for a nightmare situation.

 

The risks would not be calculable and therefore they would be un-insurable, the logical outcome would be the grotesque escalation of costs to all concerned, the major part would fall on us, the users of the waterways to such a level that many of us would be effectively excluded from using our boats as we would like to do.

 

Tough as it is we must accept the historical concept of "The captain is responsible for his ship".

Edited May 16, 2005 by John Orentas