RCD and the EU

[MtB]

This is a factual query, not to be turned into a political discussion please. Two questions:

 

1) It is my belief that the RCD regulations governing new boat builds are in place due to EEC regulations. Is this the case?

 

2) Should we leave the EU, I doubt the RCD regs will be repealed but I understand there are new, tighter RCD regs being prepared now.

 

These new tighter regs impose exhaust emission standards which will outlaw installation of vintage diesel engines, so if the answert to 1) is yes, will these new set of regs be dropped or introduced regardless, does the team think?

[carlt]

Much of the EU legislation "imposed" on us is a natural (though not always sensible) evolution of existing legislation and, in the same way that many countries have adopted laws and practices originating in this country, we would have introduced many of the new laws anyway.

 

The emissions rules are a pretty unnecessary bit of legislation that is an overreaction to the need to be seen to be green without looking at the bigger picture (the environmental cost of manufacturing a new engine and scrapping the vintage one for example).

 

The British government's record on misguided "green" legislation is no better than the EU's or anyone else's so it wouldn't surprise me if they followed suit and banned vintage installation just to pay lip service to the environment.

[Phil.]

IMO any current rules will be maintained, anything new should we be lucky enough to have got out will be subject to usual lobbying. I believe even under the new proposals though a vintage engine will still be able to be installed in a new build if it is being built as a replica. Unless this has also been changed recently.

[Tiggs]

1) It's more complicated than just EU. The EU directive was made in '96 and regulations put in place in the UK in 2004, revised in 2013 - but the committee that got them together was already an international input from, for example, the ICOMIA. If we were not members I would suspect that we would have a BS or ISO standard to comply with instead by now - and would have to comply with any boats we wanted to sell in the EU anyway.

 

2) Safety regulations are always tightened, when incidents / accidents happen that could be prevented by design and when new safety things are invented. e.g. the European aircraft design regulations are on amendment 17 now - started in 2003.

[sueb]

Good job we don't sell many narrowboats to the EU

[MtB]

Much of the EU legislation "imposed" on us is a natural (though not always sensible) evolution of existing legislation and, in the same way that many countries have adopted laws and practices originating in this country, we would have introduced many of the new laws anyway.

 

 

 

This is what I was wondering about. The RCD is often cited as an example of 'EU red tape', but I have a sneaking suspicion we'd still end up with the same red tape in a lot of cases were we not in the EU.

 

So I was wondering if leaving the EU would materially reduce the likelihood of vintage engines being driven out of existence. From what you and others have said, I suspect not.

[b0atman]

Classic cars etc are free licence pre the EU so I only see a problem in putting an old fume belching Wartburg type engine in a new boat

[DHutch]

Kitcar sometimes have one engine during registration and then another later in life.

 

 

Daniel

[mross]

Once a boat is built and has its RCD you can change the engine for a trad.

[Martin Megson]

Not a problem. Just ask a VW dealer to do the emissions test if you want a pass ?

[rjasmith]

This is a factual query, not to be turned into a political discussion please. Two questions:

 

1) It is my belief that the RCD regulations governing new boat builds are in place due to EEC regulations. Is this the case?

 

2) Should we leave the EU, I doubt the RCD regs will be repealed but I understand there are new, tighter RCD regs being prepared now.

 

These new tighter regs impose exhaust emission standards which will outlaw installation of vintage diesel engines, so if the answert to 1) is yes, will these new set of regs be dropped or introduced regardless, does the team think?

 

Mike,

 

Oh dear! I'm afraid some of this is rather old news.

 

The ans to 1) is of course yes, The Recreational Craft Regulations (RCR) ie what we know as "the RCD" is the transposition into UK law of an EEC/EU directive. The first (1996) version of the directive came into force in 1998 and did not contain any exhaust emission requirements for boat engines. New boats were allowed to have any engine fitted provided it met other (non exhaust) requirements in that early version.

 

In 2003 this early version of the RCD was amended by another EU Directive to bring in the first set of boat engine emission requirements (also engine noise limits and a few other things). This new amending directive and the earlier one ran in parallel and are still in force currently but will cease to exist after January 18 2017. The UK adopted this new directive into a new RCR to operate from 2006. I am not an expert but I believe these emissions inclusions reflect worldwide requirement upgrades and are not EU specific.

 

This amendment on its own would have made fitting a vintage engine in a new boat difficult after it came into force BUT during its preparation an EU marine law lobbyist called Michael Clarke and others managed to get a modification to the wording of the 2003 Directive which allowed any engine placed on the EU market prior to 2006 to be fitted to a new boat even if it did not meet the exhaust emission requirements. Only post 2006 engines needed to comply. This idea was based on the premise that new directive requirements are not normally applied to products retrospectively. The modification was accepted.

 

Currently and until January 18 2017 it is therefore still OK to fit such an engine in a new boat.

 

In October 2013 an entirely new Recreational Craft Directive was passed by the EU parliament which contained tighter exhaust emission requirements plus one or two other new things. It is designed to repeal the old 1996 RCD plus the 2003 amendment after it comes into force from Jan 18 2017.

 

This entirely new directive had a 2 year transposition period to allow member states to pass it into their own law and then a further grace period would be allowed for boat builders to build to either the old (1996/2003) or the new 2013 version at their choice until 18 Jan 2017 when the new RCD (or UK RCR) takes over completely.

 

The problem for vintage engines? Unfortunately Michael Clarke's earlier wording was taken out in 2013 and despite much further lobbying he could not persuade the (British!) MEP rapporteur to keep it in. Therefore under the new version, not even a pre 2006 engine can be fitted (unless it can pass the even tighter emissions!).

 

In 2013 I wrote various posts on here highlighting the "problem" but it didn't attract much discussion. I also suggested to Canal Boat and Waterways World that they might investigate and publish something about these developments. CB did a little piece that covered what I've said above but WW unfortunately did one saying that it was just a rumour!!!

 

I checked with the BMF (now just British Marine) in 2013 about the correctness of my info and their Tech Director confirmed it was right. I believe BM have been helping their members understand what the new RCD changes will mean so I presume builders who have fitted vintage engines in the past will now have post 2017 build plans in place.

 

Re your 2) I don't know whether the UK parliament has passed new RCRs to transpose the 2013 directive into UK law. If it hasn't, it hasn't met the required timetable! A call to BM would find that out presumably.

 

The new RCD still has the original exemptions for historic and replica historic boats plus historic engines and replica historic engines which allow combinations of these two to be put together but aplying these definitions to a new build are probably open to interpretation.

 

There is also the "5 year rule" of course which allows self built boats to avoid the RCD altogether.

 

Another way round which was suggested in the 2013 CWDF discussion was that it would be OK to get a fully compliant boat built and fitted with a compliant engine. This could be sold to the new owner. He could then request an immediate modification to his now, non "new" boat to change the compliant engine to something else that perhaps he had always wanted! Not a cheap solution of course and the modified boat would no longer be RCD compliant.

 

As to what might happen after next Thurs - I'm going to chicken out - I have no idea!

 

Richard

Edited June 19, 2016 by rjasmith

[Bee]

On a practical note as long as there are 'ways round' the Directive then that's a good thing.

 

When you start to look at the Directives in detail they are drafted to cover such a wide range of craft that its possible to wriggle through holes in the net.

 

If you self build you can self declare compliance.

 

I don't think that the RCD is policed, I think local trading standards have to do it so you would be unlucky to get any trouble

 

After 5 yrs you can do what you like anyway.

 

I stand to be corrected on all the above.