Delay to survey- what would you do?

[peterboat]

To be honest, and maybe I'm naive, I had this amount set aside to pay for our home. You could argue that the same boat sold elsewhere would be sold cheaper or more expensive. I might come to regret it (but then, even with a full survey people say you have little comeback if something is missed) but I'm prepared to pay the price we've agreed. Unless there's something above the waterline that the surveyor picks up- and that might be what it comes down to in a full survey too- in which case I'd be able to ask for some money off.

 

The hull thicknesses: 10/6/4 with shallow pitting (maximum pitting depth 1.8mm- "the vessel has suffered the expected levels of pitting one would expect along the base and side plates"). Good workmanship overall. No recommendations but the advice is to monitor the pitting, and if any increase in depth is noted it should be possible to seal them with spot welds. She's close to the limit of 4mm in places where pitting has developed but is generally well above.

 

(as for the other considerations, when I moved in here, the agreement based on relative earnings was that I'd pay 1/3 and he would pay 2/3. He insisted since the end of January that we have to pay 50:50, which total actually comes to more than I earn each month, obviously leaving nothing for food and petrol and other expenses, so that's having to come out of my savings. So unless I got a substantial reduction in the price, it's swings and roundabouts. And the stress of living here is appalling!)

I suspect for your sanity you are doing the right thing, I read the earlier posts it was blacked new anodes and a galvanic isolater fitted, it was only 20 months ago so hardly the end of the world stuff. It has had a recent engine and looks a nice boat as I keep on saying Good luck and happy cruising

[dmr]

I suggest you get the boat out of the water some time later this year and get it looked out. The worse pits might be worth a weld, but otherwise epoxy (two pack) blacking is the accepted way to stop pitting getting any worse. This does cost more than ordinary blacking but its worth it.

 

As you are going to be mostly static with a bit of boating then the epoxy blacking will last for ages and likely pay for itself in the long term.

The difficult decision is whether to do the bottom as well and this will depend on how bad the pitting is on the bottom. Problem is not all yards can do the bottom so you will need to find a yard that can even if an inspection then suggests you don't need to. However with your boating plans and the age of the boat doing the bottom would make sense.

 

...............Dave

[David Mack]

The difficult decision is whether to do the bottom as well and this will depend on how bad the pitting is on the bottom. Problem is not all yards can do the bottom so you will need to find a yard that can even if an inspection then suggests you don't need to. However with your boating plans and the age of the boat doing the bottom would make sense.

She's got a 10mm bottom (the boat that is!), so you can get a lot of corrosion before that gets anywhere near 4mm. So I don't think its that pressing.

[David Mack]

That surprises me. Is your insurance the historic route via Michael Stimpson? I thought that allowed at least 6 years between hull surveys?

 

Yes its a Michael Stimpson /Royal Insurance historic boat policy that has since become Mardon Marine, then Towergate Mardon then Towergate. As far as I can recall they have always asked for a 4-yearly out of water survey. Do your boats only require one every 6?

[alan_fincher]

 

Yes its a Michael Stimpson /Royal Insurance historic boat policy that has since become Mardon Marine, then Towergate Mardon then Towergate. As far as I can recall they have always asked for a 4-yearly out of water survey. Do your boats only require one every 6?

 

I would need to check. "Sickle" is not currently with Towergate, and the insurer for that only required a survey after 6 years. We arranged for "Flamingo" to be insured with Towergate via Michael Stimpson, on the basis of an existing survey for the last owner, and I thought Michael was also talking about a survey being good for 6 years? Perhaps I'm wrong, but as Towergate seems to be most people's choice for "historics" I can't see why that would be if it is possible to find alternatives that require a survey considerably less often. I will try looking through the paperwork to see if it is specified.

[Alan de Enfield]

She's got a 10mm bottom (the boat that is!), so you can get a lot of corrosion before that gets anywhere near 4mm. So I don't think its that pressing.

 

Didn't the 2 year old survey say that there were pits giving a thickness down to 4mm ?

 

That being the case I'd suggest that if it has been in a marina then by now the thickness may possibly be somewhat thinner.

 

I understand the current circumstances, but surely better to wait a couple of weeks extra and be sure, than 'act in haste and repent at leisure' if it is found that the hull is now less than 4mm and un-insurable 'fully-comp'.

[Paul C]

 

Didn't the 2 year old survey say that there were pits giving a thickness down to 4mm ?

 

That being the case I'd suggest that if it has been in a marina then by now the thickness may possibly be somewhat thinner.

 

I understand the current circumstances, but surely better to wait a couple of weeks extra and be sure, than 'act in haste and repent at leisure' if it is found that the hull is now less than 4mm and un-insurable 'fully-comp'.

 

I read it as the 6mm sides were pitted to 4mm in certain areas.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

I read it as the 6mm sides were pitted to 4mm in certain areas.

 

"No recommendations but the advice is to monitor the pitting, and if any increase in depth is noted it should be possible to seal them with spot welds. She's close to the limit of 4mm in places where pitting has developed but is generally well above....".

 

Wherever the 4mm is the surveyor seems to consider that it is 'on the limit'

 

I know that several insurers will refuse to insure at 4mm or below.

[Paul C]

Post #136 at 1:19pm - it reads like the OP has the insurance sorted - whether this means its sorted out, or that they'll accept the 2yo survey as the basis (upon which they may decline to insure it) I don't know - worth the OP clarifying with insurer obvs, and on the thread.

[Witchword]

The insurers I'll use don't want a survey yet, until she's 30. The pitting close to the limits is on the starboard side plates. Pitting on the port side plates is not so bad. Not knowing how fast pitting might exacerbate, I don't know how much of a risk this is, but I would hope that if the surveyor who wrote the report had misgivings about it when he re-reads the report, he would share them with me. In that case, the survey almost might as well be 4th June as 4th April.

The yard can't reblack her anyway when she's out this time. If I was going to have to have her out again in a year, paying twice for the slip or the crane or whatever, I might as well save that money now and just spend it in a few months. If living here costs me £500 a month from my savings, moving out two or three months sooner basically pays for that work to be done.

 

Have I got this wrong?

[peterboat]

The insurers I'll use don't want a survey yet, until she's 30. The pitting close to the limits is on the starboard side plates. Pitting on the port side plates is not so bad. Not knowing how fast pitting might exacerbate, I don't know how much of a risk this is, but I would hope that if the surveyor who wrote the report had misgivings about it when he re-reads the report, he would share them with me. In that case, the survey almost might as well be 4th June as 4th April.

The yard can't reblack her anyway when she's out this time. If I was going to have to have her out again in a year, paying twice for the slip or the crane or whatever, I might as well save that money now and just spend it in a few months. If living here costs me £500 a month from my savings, moving out two or three months sooner basically pays for that work to be done.

 

Have I got this wrong?

No and the boat was blacked after the last survey. Take it out later this year when you have some savings and give it a good looking at, it may not be any worse at all

[Witchword]

What does blacking actually do? Does it prevent rusting, deterioration of the steel? By being in between the water and the steel?

[alan_fincher]

What does blacking actually do? Does it prevent rusting, deterioration of the steel? By being in between the water and the steel?

 

Yes, provided it actually stays put.

 

The reality is often rather different, particularly if is is only the most basic bitumen based stuff, and you actually make very active use of the boat!

[Witchword]

So when people say they've got twin pack, epoxy, does that make their hull almost deterioration-proof from the water side? (A boaty friend told me that you get more corrosion from the inside than the outside...)

[Paul C]

So when people say they've got twin pack, epoxy, does that make their hull almost deterioration-proof from the water side? (A boaty friend told me that you get more corrosion from the inside than the outside...)

 

No. There is no coating which can withstand a metal hull of a 15+ ton boat hitting a concrete lock entrance/bridge hole. The coating would need to be stronger than the metal itself to do this - look at some hire boats closely and you'll see plenty of scrapes, some of which have abraded the metal away.

 

"They say" bitumen based blacking smears, rather than cracks/shatters off, in such a scenario but I don't think the effect is that much, and that effective. Also, bitumen-based is soluble in eg diesel; people report diesel floating on the canal, thus attacking the waterline of bitumen-blacked boats. Personally I think its very localised to certain areas, or spillages of diesel, and isn't a big enough issue to worry about unless you moor close to one of these areas.

[alan_fincher]

Twin pack epoxy is widely regarded as being a much better option, but if a boat is already blacked in conventional stuff, it has to be completely grit-blasted (or similar) back to metal before you can make a switch to epoxy. Yards that will do this are relatively rare, as it is a very messy operation. It will not come cheaply.

 

Providing we are talking about a modern "dry bilged" leisure narrow boat, I would say your boaty friend is completely wrong in suggesting more corrosion will occur from inside than out. The inside of a modern hull should never get very wet at all, (though some get some condensation, depending on ventilation/insulation/heating options, and any serious corrosion found inside a (say) post 1980s boat should be treated with great suspicion, IMO.

Older boats that were "wet bilged", where rain and even shower water was expected to be under the floors are a different prospect, but virtually all modern boats have not been built that way for many decades.

[MtB]

Witchy,

 

Looking at your posts and your situation in the round, if I were you I'd just flippin' buy the boat. Boating involves risk. All this hand-wringing and stressing about blacking and pitting etc looks to me as though it is stressing you through the roof. Take a chance. Just buy it and deal with any problems later, if and when they crop up, which they probably won't. The bigger picture seems to be that you badly need a new home, and living on DREAMS is the obvious answer. That thing about gift horses springs to mind. Once you are on board everything will be lovely Years will slip past before any of the theoretical disasters people here warn against come to pass, if ever.

 

Take a chance, you've loaded the dice in your favour with your impressive research and the level of understanding you've achieved already. Go for it and get on with your new life. It will work out fine, (almost) certainly. 'Tis easy for peeps on here to list out endless downsides, they have nothing to lose. You have your imminent step into your new future life to lose if you back out now. Just go for it. You're brave and resourceful enough to deal with anything that crops up.

 

Just my opinion here and now.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Mike the Boilerman

[Witchword]

Witchy,

 

Looking at your posts and your situation in the round, if I were you I'd just flippin' buy the boat. Boating involves risk. All this hand-wringing and stressing about blacking and pitting etc looks to me as though it is stressing you through the roof. Take a chance. Just buy it and deal with any problems later, if and when they crop up, which they probably won't. The bigger picture seems to be that you badly need a new home, and living on DREAMS is the obvious answer. That thing about gift horses springs to mind. Once you are on board everything will be lovely Years will slip past before any of the theoretical disasters people here warn against come to pass, if ever.

 

Take a chance, you've loaded the dice in your favour with your impressive research and the level of understanding you've achieved already. Go for it and get on with your new life. It will work out fine, (almost) certainly. 'Tis easy for peeps on here to list out endless downsides, they have nothing to lose. You have your imminent step into your new future life to lose if you back out now. Just go for it. You're brave and resourceful enough to deal with anything that crops up.

 

Just my opinion here and now.

That's such a lovely post, thank you Mike

[dmr]

Everything Mike says is true, but it will be even better with epoxy blacking!

 

............Dave

[MtB]

Everything Mike says is true, but it will be even better with epoxy blacking!

 

............Dave

 

 

My boat has had bitumen blacking haphazardly for 25 years. Had a hull survey last year with an A1 result!

 

On the other hand, my other boat also had an A1 survey, then proceeded to attempt to sink. Mind you it is 120 years old...

 

(See what I mean Witchy? )

[David Mack]

I'm with Mike on this. You've already chosen this boat, and from you have told us about your situation it looks to be a good choice. Of course lots of things could go wrong, but most of them never will, and those that do can be dealt with as and when they arise. Stick around here, and if any problems do crop up, you will get a pretty quick response on how to deal with the matter.

[Paul C]

Personally I'd go for bitumen-based blacking; and with the money saved over 2-pack, do it more frequently.

[MtB]

I'm with Mike on this. You've already chosen this boat, and from you have told us about your situation it looks to be a good choice. Of course lots of things could go wrong, but most of them never will, and those that do can be dealt with as and when they arise. Stick around here, and if any problems do crop up, you will get a pretty quick response on how to deal with the matter.

 

 

Actually the boat has chosen Witchy.

 

She is just going through the final stages of token resistance....

 

 

[peterboat]

 

 

Actually the boat has chosen Witchy.

 

She is just going through the final stages of token resistance....

 

 

Yes Mike I agree with you as well as I have been saying for my last few posts life is toooooo short to procrastinate for ever so sometimes you just have to take a chance

[patty-ann]

Hi Witchy..sometimes you can research to much and scare yourself with all the conflicting opinions...I do from time to time get myself in a right tizz...when you know almost nuffin about summit its tempting to dig deeper and deeper trying to get to know everything, to reinforce that the decision you are going to make about x, y, or z the right one...but you just end up confused, muddled and scared that your making the wrong choice/decision. I got in a right 2 and 8 about diesel bug and kept peering in my tank expecting slime to ooze out and rushed up to boat to ensure topped up..I'd only used few litres...I also considered 2 pack epoxy but then cost implications and decided that maybe getting her out every few years better plan as could see all well. I will always worry....

You need to be able to get on with your new life now..your home situation simply creates more stress and maybe now time to just take that big step.

There will always be help and advice on here and you'll learn whose opinions to go with.

Good luck.