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traditional ropework


KarlosMacronius
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"If you are single handing uphill we tend to use a tack string from the forward stud run back round the mast to hold the boat forward."

 

Hello Ric,

 

We use a line direct off the mast to hold the butty forward. By the time the boat is high enough for the line to start fouling the edge of the deck board it is redundant as the butty is by then held on the top gate by the flow of water into the lock.

I'm interested in your logic for using a line off the T stud via the mast?

We drop the line off the mast over the T stud in order to strap the butty into a lock, but this doesn't seem to disrupt our deck board, fire hose or cratch cloths.

 

Regards

 

Colin

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Hi Colin.

 

It's just my preference as it is very rare we are single handed and the fore end line is always availabl. I know my dad prefers to use another line direct from the mast as you describe but that requires planning in advanve! :) You also get a similar circumstance if you are strapping round at a junction.

 

I suppose that by giving an example of circumstances I've started a discussion about technique, this was not my intention and I am sure there are many ways you can avoid having ropes touch the cloths.

 

The point I was making was that if you use the extra rope as mentioned it can ensure that the hosepipe is secured in place. My assumption being that the whole point of the hosepipe is to protect the cloths. If it is purely decorative then my point is irrelevant anyway.

 

As I said I can't argue with history, but for us it does actually do something useful :)

 

Best regards

 

Ric

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Hi Colin.

 

It's just my preference as it is very rare we are single handed and the fore end line is always availabl. I know my dad prefers to use another line direct from the mast as you describe but that requires planning in advanve! smile.png You also get a similar circumstance if you are strapping round at a junction.

 

I suppose that by giving an example of circumstances I've started a discussion about technique, this was not my intention and I am sure there are many ways you can avoid having ropes touch the cloths.

 

The point I was making was that if you use the extra rope as mentioned it can ensure that the hosepipe is secured in place. My assumption being that the whole point of the hosepipe is to protect the cloths. If it is purely decorative then my point is irrelevant anyway.

 

As I said I can't argue with history, but for us it does actually do something useful smile.png

 

Best regards

 

Ric

 

But only because you are using an excessively long bit of line that seems always to be on the T-stud, . . . it shouldn't be more than about 17' - 18' long.

Your Dad's doing it the right way.

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Hi Tony,

 

I'm sure you are right and I'm no position to argue.

 

However, am I right in saying that the hosepipe is used to protect the deck cloth from wear? Or is it purely for decoration? If so am surprised as most other decorations have some practical origin.

 

If it was fitted to reduce wear, then sometimes the hosepipe which is held in place at each end and not in the middle, can sometimes shift back exposing the cloth underneath - which kind of defeats the object.

 

By using the extra rope, the hosepipe can be held in place and the wear always taken by the hose regardless of circumstance. So in our case at least this is not purely used for decoration, but serves a purpose as well.

 

I'm not trying to argue whether this is correct or not, just my experience.

 

Best Regards

 

Ric

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  • 7 months later...

 

There were scrubbed white cotton top strings at the fore-end of working boats, but not rigged up like that. There is one too many, and it's the string that runs on the diagonal from the gunwhales, at the false cratch, and across the deckboard.

Pairs of boats that regularly had to 'cloth up' to keep whatever they were carrying dry would generally leave the fore-end 'topcloth' on all the time, but folded crossways to the same length as the cratch when empty.

Because of the rise of the gunwhales in the last few feet to the deck cant, the lower forward corner of a topcloth folded like this would hang over the gunwhales. To stop this happening the forward bottom corner of the folded topcloth was tucked up behind the crossways folds with the longest side of the triangular fold running from the bottom of the false cratch to about two thirds of the way up the deckboard. To keep the folded cloth in place, the 'white string' that had been over the false cratch when the topcloth had been unfolded back to the mast would then be put back on, along and over the edge of the three cornered fold from the bottom of the false cratch on each side and across the deckboard.

The arrangement of white strings in the photo is a muddled hotch-potch of two different practices for different circumstances and had no place on working boats. It's clumsily and messily done, it looks silly and serves no purpose, . . . just another example of people demonstrating how little they know or understand about the traditions they believe themselves to be maintaining.

 

Note added :~ the 'false cratch' is the A-shaped wooden framework that sits on the inner edges of the gunwhales about 3' along from the 'deckboard'.

 

It would appear that you are not entirely correct with your statement: There were scrubbed white cotton top strings at the fore-end of working boats, but not rigged up like that. There is one too many, and it's the string that runs on the diagonal from the gunwhales, at the false cratch, and across the deckboard.

 

 

 

just another example of people demonstrating how little they know or understand about the traditions they believe themselves to be maintaining.

 

????????

Edited by Ray T
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This is the picture of George Wain with the "Fenny" and "Titania" I referred to in an earlier post - the only old one I've ever seen with the diagonal string and no forecloth! (I dare say lots will now appear!) I have to say I agree with Tony on this one Ray - it's a case of "less is more!"

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This is the picture of George Wain with the "Fenny" and "Titania" I referred to in an earlier post - the only old one I've ever seen with the diagonal string and no forecloth! (I dare say lots will now appear!) I have to say I agree with Tony on this one Ray - it's a case of "less is more!"

 

 

 

 

 

Badsey and Alperton

Edited by Ray T
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attachicon.gifFlamingo.JPG

 

attachicon.gifDeck board.JPG

 

Badsey and Alperton

BADSEY is done 'correctly', in that the fore end top cloth has been folded back towards the cratch with the corners tucked under so requiring the diagonal strings to hold it in place.

 

Each to their own but I am in the 'less is more' camp and I would not dream of putting up the diagonal strings just for show - i.e. if it is not needed then it is not there.

 

And another thing - I have never understood the need for the short cloth that some put over cratch in place of the fore end top cloth - especially when they also have a fore end top cloth. This means that when the fore end top cloth is used the cratch strings have to be taken off, the fore end top cloth and the tippet put on and then the cratch strings put back on. When the fore end top cloth is folded back towards the cratch and the ends tucked under then you are left with a cratch as seen on BADSEY in the photograph above, all held in place by the diagonal strings (my preference is to then roll the tippet down the deckboard and secure it behind the headlight - even though I am told this is a northern practice). When there is then the need to cloth up then the diagonal strings are removed and the fore end top cloth and tippet simply unfolded back towards the top mast - simples captain.gif

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Economics Pete.
Use the front topcloth folded in the approved manner and watch it rot in five years.Replacement cost: £x.
Use a short cloth over the cratch etc. Replacement cost: £y.

x>>y. What would you do?

That said my short(plastic) cloth has been on ~25years.

Edited by davidg
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