wigan and back

[14skipper]

Hi am planning trip from wigan up the L & L to castleford junction.would like to come back via manchester i.e a circular route .but as l am in a 60ft boat canal planner is taking me via nottingham and birmingham then to wigan.

Can l not get through via halfax or huddersfield back to manchester then wigan ?

 

14skipper

[Hawkmoth]

There are those who say it can be done, but it is 'difficult'. Your length in those 57ft locks can be awkward. We did have a look at it, went into the first lock and chickened out.

Bob

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

The Figure of Three lock below Dewsbury is the first shorter lock you will come across, cruise to there and you will find out the answer. Worth the effort if you cannot manage to go up the locks diagonally which most manage, then you will have to reverse all the way to the last lock. That is the only way to cruise try it and see for yourself,

[MikeV]

We once followed a 60' boat down the Huddersfield wide. It was a slow process getting the boat diagonally across the lock and then emptying the lock slowly until you were sure the rudder had cleared the cill. With a crew of four they had someone on standby to fill the lock again should anything snag, but they did make it down. Going up should be less fraught!

[Mac of Cygnet]

The Figure of Three lock below Dewsbury is the first shorter lock you will come across, cruise to there and you will find out the answer. Worth the effort if you cannot manage to go up the locks diagonally which most manage, then you will have to reverse all the way to the last lock. That is the only way to cruise try it and see for yourself,

However some of the short locks are shorter than others, and unfortunately if you are heading back to Manchester via the Rochdale, then it's the very last C&H lock which is the shortest - Salterhebble Top.

[Guest]

Hi am planning trip from wigan up the L & L to castleford junction.would like to come back via manchester i.e a circular route .but as l am in a 60ft boat canal planner is taking me via nottingham and birmingham then to wigan.

Can l not get through via halfax or huddersfield back to manchester then wigan ?

 

14skipper

We never ventured onto the C&H in our sixty foot boat. I never ever plucked up the courage to try it if I'm honest. Others claim to have done it. One lock requires going in backwards, Salterhebble.

[Mike Todd]

We once followed a 60' boat down the Huddersfield wide. It was a slow process getting the boat diagonally across the lock and then emptying the lock slowly until you were sure the rudder had cleared the cill. With a crew of four they had someone on standby to fill the lock again should anything snag, but they did make it down. Going up should be less fraught!

Also best to lift the bow and stern fenders. We are officially 60ft and have done all of the 'short' locks. Not difficult but requires care. It is also helpful to have someone show you how to do it as the sequence is not immediately obvious.

 

The secret is that the end of the bottom lock gate that is furthest from the heel post moves in a circular arc and so is further from the top cill when closed than when it is open. Hence the manoeuvre going up involves pulling the stern across by (eg) rope. Much much easier to see it done than to try to describe it!

[RichardN]

Hi am planning trip from wigan up the L & L to castleford junction.would like to come back via manchester i.e a circular route .but as l am in a 60ft boat canal planner is taking me via nottingham and birmingham then to wigan.

Can l not get through via halfax or huddersfield back to manchester then wigan ?

 

14skipper

You probably can do it . . . though I think I would prefer to do it anti-clockwise rather than clockwise.

 

We are notionally 60' and did the whole ring (apart from the Leigh Branch) this summer. It is a fantastic journey, superb so give it a go but be prepared!

 

* The Rochdale is a good work out, a demanding journey but stunning, really stunning.

 

* We had to go through Salterhebble backwards with our fenders off! Sue had one of our excellent driving days and drove in reverse between the locks and went in through a single gate without any effort before I could get round to open the other gate! Do your homework, best advice is on the Pennine Waterways site here, photos of us going through are here.

 

* The journey is well worth trying but be warned, if you are a bit too long or you have a big bum then you will drop down Salterhebble Top but won't be able to get out. If that happens weep at what you are missing but rejoice in that you get to do the Rochdale again.

 

* You really need to concentrate on the Calder and Hebble Navigation, also I suspect it is easier going down from Sowerby Bridge ie anti-clockwise round the ring as in most locks we had to pull the boat under the walkway on the bottom locks as water dropped and before we ground on the cill, with our shape of boat it would have been awkward the other way round, ymmv. Take it easy and it is fine, we got quite good at working the boat through with a rope and boat hook.

 

* The Leeds & Liverpool is way long (127.5 miles?) and well what I can say, I can't wait to do it again. Very enjoyable even if there is a swing bridge every 5 yards.

 

* We dropped down into Liverpool and that again was an unexpected treat. I remember Liverpool as a place with a fierce reputation but now it is a lovely city, they are working so hard to make a fantastic place and I think they are really succeeding.

 

* I needed the exercise so we went down Wigan unaided. If you book then you can get help from CRT / Volunteer lockies, contrary to the opinions expressed here I have talked to several people who had help up or down Wigan, they were universal in their praise and gratitude for the help.

 

Do it and enjoy!

Edited January 9, 2016 by RichardN

[by'eck]

Hi am planning trip from wigan up the L & L to castleford junction.would like to come back via manchester i.e a circular route .but as l am in a 60ft boat canal planner is taking me via nottingham and birmingham then to wigan.

Can l not get through via halfax or huddersfield back to manchester then wigan ?

 

14skipper

 

Did this single handed in a 60 foot nb last year - great trip with the highlights being the scenery north of Barnoldswick on the L & L and the Rochdale from Todmorden to the summit.

 

You will find it very tight in three locks on the Calder & Hebble, which must be tackled east to west. They are Shepley Bridge and the upper two at Salterhebble. Here the bow and two of the three stern fenders had to be lifted. Do not be tempted to share the locks with any other boat – you will need to manoeuvre boat diagonally in most. This is not much of an issue since the navigation is generally quiet.

 

After Sowerby bridge depth becomes an issue on the Rochdale if you draw over 30 inches but managed it with only minor issues with my 34" draught.

 

Not allowed to link to it but if you Google calder and hebble living on a narrowboat there is a post giving more detailed info and suggestions.

Edited January 9, 2016 by by'eck

[Emerald Fox]

We once followed a 60' boat down the Huddersfield wide. It was a slow process getting the boat diagonally across the lock and then emptying the lock slowly until you were sure the rudder had cleared the cill. With a crew of four they had someone on standby to fill the lock again should anything snag, but they did make it down. Going up should be less fraught!

 

When they go to the pub do they ask the barman to put 2 pints in a pint glass?

We never ventured onto the C&H in our sixty foot boat. I never ever plucked up the courage to try it if I'm honest. Others claim to have done it. One lock requires going in backwards, Salterhebble.

 

There are 3 locks at Salterhebble. And a sensible decision not to stick a 60-foot boat in a lock designed for 58-foot boats.

Also best to lift the bow and stern fenders. We are officially 60ft and have done all of the 'short' locks. Not difficult but requires care. It is also helpful to have someone show you how to do it as the sequence is not immediately obvious.

 

The secret is that the end of the bottom lock gate that is furthest from the heel post moves in a circular arc and so is further from the top cill when closed than when it is open. Hence the manoeuvre going up involves pulling the stern across by (eg) rope. Much much easier to see it done than to try to describe it!

 

It's a bit like having a quick fag next to an aircraft that is re-fuelling - fine so long as you can get away with it and no-one is looking.

The journey is well worth trying but be warned, if you are a bit too long or you have a big bum then you will drop down Salterhebble Top but won't be able to get out. If that happens weep at what you are missing

 

And have a good weep when the lock keeper comes round and hits the stupido in the face with a large wet fish. Big boats - go to your big locks, and leave the little locks for the little boats.

 

 

ps - Rochdale Canal & Calder & Hebble somewhat battered from the recent flood of 26th December - officially closed? Updates needed for the next year I'd say...

Edited January 9, 2016 by Emerald Fox

[Mac of Cygnet]

Did this single handed in a 60 foot nb last year - great trip with the highlights being the scenery north of Barnoldswick on the L & L and the Rochdale from Todmorden to the summit.

 

You will find it very tight in three locks on the Calder & Hebble, which must be tackled east to west. They are Shepley Bridge and the upper two at Salterhebble. Here the bow and two of the three stern fenders had to be lifted. Do not be tempted to share the locks with any other boat – you will need to manoeuvre boat diagonally in most. This is not much of an issue since the navigation is generally quiet.[/size]

 

After Sowerby bridge depth becomes an issue on the Rochdale if you draw over 30 inches but managed it with only minor issues with my 34" draught. [/size]

 

Not allowed to link to it but if you Google calder and hebble living on a narrowboat there is a post giving more detailed info and suggestions.[/size]

 

Why aren't you allowed to link to it? Seems OK.

 

http://livingonanarrowboat.co.uk/forum/cruising-guides/calder-hebble-navigation/

[Emerald Fox]

Do not be tempted to share the locks with any other boat

 

That's a bit selfish and wasting of water, no? We shared locks with other boats.

 

(ps - Hullo Mac! The flood was a bit extreme - we see it lifted your boat right out of the water and handily placed it on some supports! )

Edited January 9, 2016 by Emerald Fox

[by'eck]

 

Why aren't you allowed to link to it? Seems OK.

 

http://livingonanarrowboat.co.uk/forum/cruising-guides/calder-hebble-navigation/

 

No idea (tried twice) but clearly working now - thanks

 

 

That's a bit selfish and wasting of water, no? We shared locks with other boats.

 

 

Well done but totally impossible in the circumstances we were discussing, i.e. 60 ft nb in 57 ft locks.

[Alway Swilby]

We've done all three pennine crossings in our 60ft NB. The top two locks at Salterhebble were the shortest. We were decending these and found that after we had emptied the lock and opened one gate we couldn't push the bow across from behind the closed gate. We had to refill the lock, reverse out, wind and do the two locks backwards. This way the top of the bow sticks over the cill giving an extra couple of inches. If you are ascending you should be ok. Or go via the Huddersfield Broad and Narrow instead thereby avoiding the shortest of short locks.

[14skipper]

Thank you all for your help.

Have l it right then that it can be done going via the Huddersfield Broad and Narrow and going anti clockwise round wigan to manchester to leeds then wigan ?

 

14skipper

[by'eck]

Thank you all for your help.

Have l it right then that it can be done going via the Huddersfield Broad and Narrow and going anti clockwise round wigan to manchester to leeds then wigan ?

 

14skipper

 

No for the latter route it must be east to west on the Calder and Hebble as previously mentioned. That would be clockwise Wigan-Skipton-Leeds-Castleford-Sowerby Bridge-Manchester-Wigan.

 

Same applies on the Huddersfield route of course for the C&H part, although not sure of implications of a 60ft nb travelling south on the Huddersfield broad canal.

[14skipper]

 

although not sure of implications of a 60ft nb travelling south on the Huddersfield broad canal.

Sorry too be a pain but why is that ?

[by'eck]

Sorry too be a pain but why is that ?

 

Simply because you cannot descending the three shortest locks I mentioned, at least not with the boat pointing in direction of travel.

 

Those who have tried with a 60ft nb have had to back out and reverse in. The problem arises with rudder potentially snagging on the cill, and/or not being able to open bottom gate as the stern does not fit into the V of the cill as well as the bow.

Edited January 10, 2016 by by'eck

[RichardN]

 

Simply because you cannot descending the three shortest locks I mentioned, at least not with the boat pointing in direction of travel.

 

Those who have tried with a 60ft nb have had to back out and reverse in. The problem arises with rudder potentially snagging on the cill, and/or not being able to open bottom gate.

We went west to east. We talked to the nice people at Shire Cruisers, had a look at Salterhebble and decided to go down in reverse which worked fine. Apparently some people in 60' boats do go down pointing downstream but we did not fancy it, I think the point about snagging the rudder is spot on and the driver gets to stay a bit drier!

 

After that we went through normally, well almost. There is a walkway on the upstream side of the bottom gates, we had to get the front under that so we would let water out and pull the front under the walkway as soon as we could. We only went west to east but obviously looked at the implications of going the other way and for our boat I would worry about it more, it would be more difficult and harder to avoid getting caught under the walkways as you come up.

 

We won't be back on the C&H till 2017, I am hoping to go west to east but that is so far away that plans may change . . .

[Alway Swilby]

You can avoid the two shortest locks at Salterhebble altogether. Leave Wigan and head for Manchester then ascend the Ashton locks and go over the Pennines on the Huddersfield Narrow (although check dimensions on CRT web site, if you have a high air draft you won't get through Standedge Tunnel), down the Huddersfield Broad, Calder & Hebble to Castleford, turn left for Leeds and back to Wigan on the L&L. We have done all that in our 60' narrowboat.

Or do it all in reverse order.

[by'eck]

We went west to east. We talked to the nice people at Shire Cruisers, had a look at Salterhebble and decided to go down in reverse which worked fine. Apparently some people in 60' boats do go down pointing downstream but we did not fancy it, I think the point about snagging the rudder is spot on and the driver gets to stay a bit drier!

 

After that we went through normally, well almost. There is a walkway on the upstream side of the bottom gates, we had to get the front under that so we would let water out and pull the front under the walkway as soon as we could. We only went west to east but obviously looked at the implications of going the other way and for our boat I would worry about it more, it would be more difficult and harder to avoid getting caught under the walkways as you come up.

 

We won't be back on the C&H till 2017, I am hoping to go west to east but that is so far away that plans may change . . .

 

I will categorically say that would not be posssible with my 60 foot narrowboat at least. Nothing to do with keeping dry or even avoiding snagging the rudder, although there is a real possibility of that. Simply that a curved stern even set hard into the central V of the cill would loose you at least 3 inches and likely more compared with the sharp point of the bow. Going up the three shortest bow first I had barely an inch to spare anyway.

 

Regarding the bottom gate walkways, they have all been sawn away in the centre to alleviate the very issue you mention. Remember also that by the time snagging of your tiller arm would be an issue your boat is floating above the upper gate cill, so more length to play with.