replacing an Alde comfort boiler.

[KarlosMacronius]

Hello all,

 

We currently have an Alde comfort boiler (the tall thin one) on our boat as the primary heat source. There is no solid fuel stove and though we miss our old squirel and they're the best form of heating, we will not be installing one as they take up too much space (in the form of the space you have to leave around them and fuel storge etc) and we also have two babies on the verge of toddling so we're ruling it out on safety grounds.

 

The Alde feeds both the calorifier for hot water and three radiators for heating. Put simply it goes through gas too quickly (the record so far is one cylinder in 4 days when used constantly but on average its one every 6/7 days) and its not even been that cold! We live aboard and will do so for the next 2 or 3 years at least so we are looking at changing our heat source to a more cost effective one (gas is costing us £26 per 13kg).

 

So I'm thinking of replacing it with one of those diesel water heaters which should be fairly simple job.... or alternatviely is there a better/more efficient boiler I can swap it for?

 

What would you folks do (if solid fuels stoves were not an option), and why?

 

thanks in advance!

[Alan Saunders]

I would stick with the Alde! My 1987 version is very reliable; unlike some reports of problems with various diesel fuelled heaters. I service the boiler myself but if you can follow the instructions there is a supplier who will service your unit for about £50 + p&p + parts. In nine years of 'leisure' use and eleven of live-aboard without a shore supply it has needed a circulation pump (higher output £110), piezo igniter (£15?) and HT lead.

 

Yes, on the coldest winter days and nights (-8C?) I got through a 13Kg propane cylinder in three days keeping day temperature at 22C and night 15C. 33' steel n/boat with only 1" of polystyrene insulation and large, single glazed windows plus the calorifier dumping heat into the engine. There are things that you can do to improve insulation and comfort and therefore decrease gas consumption. e.g. Secondary glazing could make you comfortable at 20C rather than 24C

 

Whilst it may be a pain dragging 2x 13Kg cylinders up to half a mile along muddy towpaths once a week it would take a long time to recoup the large cost (£1,000 -£2,00) of installing a diesel heater. Look at the annual cost of gas of expensive 13Kg cylinders and consider an alternate supplier; e.g. Calor £74, HBS £50 for 47Kg refill and no contract or non-returnable deposit on the bottles.

 

HTH, Alan

[MtB]

Hello all,

 

We currently have an Alde comfort boiler (the tall thin one) on our boat as the primary heat source. There is no solid fuel stove and though we miss our old squirel and they're the best form of heating, we will not be installing one as they take up too much space (in the form of the space you have to leave around them and fuel storge etc) and we also have two babies on the verge of toddling so we're ruling it out on safety grounds.

 

The Alde feeds both the calorifier for hot water and three radiators for heating. Put simply it goes through gas too quickly (the record so far is one cylinder in 4 days when used constantly but on average its one every 6/7 days) and its not even been that cold! We live aboard and will do so for the next 2 or 3 years at least so we are looking at changing our heat source to a more cost effective one (gas is costing us £26 per 13kg).

 

So I'm thinking of replacing it with one of those diesel water heaters which should be fairly simple job.... or alternatviely is there a better/more efficient boiler I can swap it for?

 

What would you folks do (if solid fuels stoves were not an option), and why?

 

thanks in advance!

 

 

So you're paying £26 a week for your heating and hot water fuel. Not excessive in my view. I can burn two bags of coal easily in a week, costing £12 each.

 

But the thing that leaps out at me is you appear not to have looked into how much fuel diesel fired thingy uses. Webasto/Mikuni etc totally drink the stuff I suspect. Half a litre an hour springs to mind. That's gonna add up to abouty £26 a week, roughly so you'll be not much better off. If at all.

[frangar]

I would stick with the Alde! My 1987 version is very reliable; unlike some reports of problems with various diesel fuelled heaters. I service the boiler myself but if you can follow the instructions there is a supplier who will service your unit for about £50 + p&p + parts. In nine years of 'leisure' use and eleven of live-aboard without a shore supply it has needed a circulation pump (higher output £110), piezo igniter (£15?) and HT lead.

 

Yes, on the coldest winter days and nights (-8C?) I got through a 13Kg propane cylinder in three days keeping day temperature at 22C and night 15C. 33' steel n/boat with only 1" of polystyrene insulation and large, single glazed windows plus the calorifier dumping heat into the engine. There are things that you can do to improve insulation and comfort and therefore decrease gas consumption. e.g. Secondary glazing could make you comfortable at 20C rather than 24C

 

Whilst it may be a pain dragging 2x 13Kg cylinders up to half a mile along muddy towpaths once a week it would take a long time to recoup the large cost (£1,000 -£2,00) of installing a diesel heater. Look at the annual cost of gas of expensive 13Kg cylinders and consider an alternate supplier; e.g. Calor £74, HBS £50 for 47Kg refill and no contract or non-returnable deposit on the bottles.

 

HTH, Alan

Totally agree with this...plus the fact that the Alde needs very little in the way of electrical power compared to a diesel heater. This means much less battery recharging by whatever means...bear in mind even solar will be poor in winter when you need the heater most.

 

Whilst my Alde isn't my sole form of space heating I wouldn't swap it for any other system perhaps apart from the newer type of Alde although you do need a stainless calorifier if you swap types. I use mine to heat my water when off grid and it was in daily use when we lived without a hook up for water heating......I would weigh up all the costs before changing.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[Tony Brooks]

I agree with the above, especially as the Eberkunibastos have got something of a name for being less than fully reliable (for whatever reason). I would have thought with young children aboard reliable heating that is easy to repair is a must. E.g. not one requiring a computer and link to reset.

 

If I was in your shoes I would first double glaze the windows even if it is by use of Wilko style Blue Peter tape and heat shrink clear film.

 

If set one diesel heating also consider a Hurricane but the cost may be a factor.

[Sea Dog]

So you're paying £26 a week for your heating and hot water fuel. Not excessive in my view. I can burn two bags of coal easily in a week, costing £12 each.

 

But the thing that leaps out at me is you appear not to have looked into how much fuel diesel fired thingy uses. Webasto/Mikuni etc totally drink the stuff I suspect. Half a litre an hour springs to mind. That's gonna add up to abouty £26 a week, roughly so you'll be not much better off. If at all.

Exactly. You may be able to reduce your weekly fuel costs, but will it be significant enough to pay back the outlay? Its the whole life costs that are important, so you must add the capital costs of the new system and fitting it, divided by how many years you expect to have it to its (potentially lower?) annual fuel costs to compare like with like.

 

My Eber uses about 1/2 a litre per hour, but Eber themselves also say the units must be worked hard, because its repeated short cycling which kills them. For this reason, I use mine for an hour's burst when I need to warm the boat (say on very cold mornings) and gain a tank of water and let the stove take the weight the rest of the time. This pattern wouldn't suit your needs.

 

I prefer the fit I have and would not choose gas for the same reason as you're questioning whether to keep it. However, since you already have the Alde, those 2 reasons above might be enough to convince you to stick with it.

[peterboat]

i to had a n alde on my old boat it was great one pump and small repair in six years. i did have a stove though solid fuel early on then diesel bubble for 2 years worked well for me

[KarlosMacronius]

Hmm a good point i havent done any maths just been bimbling around the internet and forums with a vague disgruntlement so....

The fuel consumption for the eberspachers h4 is (according to the sales brochure) 0.27/0.53 l/h.

 

I've read that the boiler uses 480grammes per hour at maximum which gives approx 28 hours use out of a 13kg bottle.

 

So the costs of running the two system at maximum heat output are (approximately):

Alde - £26/28hrs = 92p per hour.

Eberspacher - at £1 per litre to make maths easy means 0.53p per hour (and 0.27p per hour at min)

 

now if 13kg is lasting 6 days we're obviously running at about 1/3 capacity of the 6kw max ouput. so assuming we produce around 2kw per hour, we're producing around 336kw per week. at a cost of £30.33 a week.

 

The heat output for the Eber. D4 is 2.4 kw to 4.3 kw so we would mostly be runing it at the lower end of its range, so to create 336kw per week using a 2.4kw heat output would mean running it for 140 hours (336/2.4=140 hours). 140*0.27 = £37.80 per week.

Running at the top end would mean running it for 78 hours 78*0.53 = £41.43

 

So, unless some of my maths is wrong, it appears the gas is cheaper?! and thats not even taking into account the cost of the new unit/instalation....

 

Well thats that sorted. Thanks for making me do the maths, I'll stick with the Alde and maybe spend some money on a smalll tender and outboard instead to make the run to get gas easier.

[Top cat]

We have just replaced our leaking Alde boiler with a Webasto diesel heater. I did consider repairing the Alde but as it had to come out anyway and getting it out was less than straightforward and the repair cost was almost that of the Webasto so it got replaced

 

I like the fact that the Webasto starts on a timer, however I am less impressed by it sounding like a 747 taking off as it starts, but that is better than the booms that eminated from the Alde. The Webasto is much more effective in both space and water heating so much so that we usually only run it for 45 minutes a day.

 

Whether it would be worth replacing a functional Alde boiler I don't know.

 

Top Cat

[MtB]

Hmm a good point i havent done any maths just been bimbling around the internet and forums with a vague disgruntlement so....

 

The fuel consumption for the eberspachers h4 is (according to the sales brochure) 0.27/0.53 l/h.

 

I've read that the boiler uses 480grammes per hour at maximum which gives approx 28 hours use out of a 13kg bottle.

 

So the costs of running the two system at maximum heat output are (approximately):

Alde - £26/28hrs = 92p per hour.

Eberspacher - at £1 per litre to make maths easy means 0.53p per hour (and 0.27p per hour at min)

 

now if 13kg is lasting 6 days we're obviously running at about 1/3 capacity of the 6kw max ouput. so assuming we produce around 2kw per hour, we're producing around 336kw per week. at a cost of £30.33 a week.

 

The heat output for the Eber. D4 is 2.4 kw to 4.3 kw so we would mostly be runing it at the lower end of its range, so to create 336kw per week using a 2.4kw heat output would mean running it for 140 hours (336/2.4=140 hours). 140*0.27 = £37.80 per week.

Running at the top end would mean running it for 78 hours 78*0.53 = £41.43

 

So, unless some of my maths is wrong, it appears the gas is cheaper?! and thats not even taking into account the cost of the new unit/instalation....

 

Well thats that sorted. Thanks for making me do the maths, I'll stick with the Alde and maybe spend some money on a smalll tender and outboard instead to make the run to get gas easier.

 

 

 

Dammit and I was about to offer you £50 for the old Alde!

[Dave Payne]

Man who serviced mine advised me to keep the boiler at 5 on the dial, claimed it was enough for the central heating... Not sure how much gas this would save.

[MtB]

Man who serviced mine advised me to keep the boiler at 5 on the dial, claimed it was enough for the central heating... Not sure how much gas this would save.

 

 

None.

 

Running it at a lower temperature just results in it running for a higher proportion of the time in order to deliver the (same) amount of heat energy into the boat needed to keep warm...

[Dave Payne]

Interesting, never really used it on 10, have been using on 5 for the last 4 months and getting the same sort of usage figures as the OP.

 

Might just crank it up for bottle and see how long it lasts.

[Tony Brooks]

In fact I am sure I read advice from Alde somewhere that running it much below 3 to 4 is one reason for it using more gas because it needs to run longer to heat the boat up.

[MtB]

In fact I am sure I read advice from Alde somewhere that running it much below 3 to 4 is one reason for it using more gas because it needs to run longer to heat the boat up.

 

 

There is a further complication I glossed over. Or ignored actually!

 

The fuel efficiency of a boiler varies according to the temperature you are run it at. Not a vast amount but varies all the same.