stepping over the gap

[kris88]

Who said "rush headlong"? So basically you have no advice other than "don't do that" fair enough it's your opinion. I've got no more to say.

[blackrose]

No, I'm not necessarily saying "don't do that" but I am saying it may not be as easy as you're suggesting and could make matters worse. So I'm just adding a note of caution. Ultimately only the OP can decide.

 

It's very tempting to offer advice based on our own life experiences, but my time working at the Samaritans taught me that the things that work for us might not be suitable for others and people need to find their own paths. So we don't offer advice. I realise that this forum isn't a counselling service, but it's that background that informs my approach to these things.

Edited November 7, 2015 by blackrose

[Dave_P]

Hmmn, it's not completely out of the question, Dave. I'm bearing all this in mind and adding it to the equation.

I was born in Wombourn, Staffs, and later lived in Walsall. The canals were among my playgrounds, almost since I could walk.

Yep, it is hard to do from here...

Mick.

Both canal places.

 

One thing I didn't mention before; boats are generally cheaper to buy up here too.

[twbm]

A bit of an aside - but if you book in advance, Rugby to London return is £15, albeit it's the London Midland stopping service which seems to take forever.

[MtB]

No, I'm not necessarily saying "don't do that" but I am saying it may not be as easy as you're suggesting and could make matters worse. So I'm just adding a note of caution. Ultimately only the OP can decide.

 

It's very tempting to offer advice based on our own life experiences, but my time working at the Samaritans taught me that the things that work for us might not be suitable for others and people need to find their own paths. So we don't offer advice. I realise that this forum isn't a counselling service, but it's that background that informs my approach to these things.

 

 

Very wise.

 

Greenied.

[Mickonearth]

TWBM, Good point. I will look into this idea of working and living outside of London, and the whole cheaper rent thing.

Must admit, at present, I favour either renting a boat while I save money to buy, or exercising patience while saving up. Buying a cheap boat, which might drain money from my plans to buy, might mean it takes longer to make it viable. Information is what I asked for, and I'm getting plenty. Cheers everyone.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

The one thing that is certain, if you want to change your situation the only person who is going to do it is you.

I don't know where abouts in London you are mick.But my advice for finding some cash in hand work, is knock on the kitchen doors of as many posh resteraunts as possible. Ask if they need an extra pot washer running up to Christmas.

 

Regards kris

It sounds like the OP has sensibly ignored your 'advice' since he began the thread by stating that his huge rent prevents him from working whereas it seems to me your 'suggestion' is that he should be fiddling his Housing Benefit by working, feel free to correct me if I've misunderstood your meaning.

 

Another of your suggestions needs clarification as to precisely what you mean by 'cash in hand' work. Is this the off the books, tax free, cash in hand work or some other sort? If it is the sort I describe (and again feel free to correct me if I've misunderstood you) then it seems to me that what you are recommending is for him to take to crime to finance his boat. Now if we are to suggest crime to finance the boat why not go the whole hog and try a bit of drug dealing or internet fraud, he'll pay for his boat in no time

[kris88]

It sounds like the OP has sensibly ignored your 'advice' since he began the thread by stating that his huge rent prevents him from working whereas it seems to me your 'suggestion' is that he should be fiddling his Housing Benefit by working, feel free to correct me if I've misunderstood your meaning.

 

Another of your suggestions needs clarification as to precisely what you mean by 'cash in hand' work. Is this the off the books, tax free, cash in hand work or some other sort? If it is the sort I describe (and again feel free to correct me if I've misunderstood you) then it seems to me that what you are recommending is for him to take to crime to finance his boat. Now if we are to suggest crime to finance the boat why not go the whole hog and try a bit of drug dealing or internet fraud, he'll pay for his boat in no time

Be careful you don't fall off that high moral ground there. What would you suggest the op does to get out of the situation he finds himself in? I didn't see much advice in your post for him.

As an aside my preference would be arms dealing, it's a growing market and always lots of demand. Drug dealing is so passé and internet fraud is for teenagers.

Kris

Edited November 8, 2015 by kris88

[magictime]

Be careful you don't fall off that high moral ground there. What would you suggest the op does to get out of the situation he finds himself in? I didn't see much advice in your post for him.

As an aside my preference would be arms dealing, it's a growing market and always lots of demand. Drug dealing is so passé and internet fraud is for teenagers.

Kris

 

The 'moral high ground' has very little to do with it. Whatever your personal views on the ethics of benefit fraud, it's a crime, and if the OP took your advice he could wind up not just homeless, but homeless and with a criminal record or even a jail sentence. It's easy enough for you to dish out that sort of worthless and irresponsible 'advice', because you're not the one risking your whole future by putting it into action, but I'm inclined to agree with Wanderer Vagabond that you should probably have kept it to yourself.

 

For the record: my suggestion to the OP would be that he escapes the London rent trap he's in by getting out of London for a time and into affordable accommodation elsewhere - perhaps even downsizing to a studio flat or a room in a shared house as a 'stepping stone' to the restricted space on a boat - then works to get the money together for a liveaboard boat which he can, if he likes, take back to London. It may not be ideal, but it beats a life lived in fear of the knock on the door from officials asking about benefit fraud.

[kris88]

Remind me how does he get the money to move out of London?

 

Regards kris

[MtB]

I must say, I'm puzzled by the OP's predicament. He believes taking work will remove his entitlement to housing benefit. I find this very hard to believe unless he already has some sort of independent income.

 

Is it really true? Getting a job means one's housing benefit is withdrawn? Or am I misinterpreting the OP?

[GreyLady]

I cant fault Mick for having a goal and a dream to live on a boat and to better his situation.

 

A bit less 'it will never work, things will be worse' would'nt go a miss.

 

Were doomed doooomed !

Edited November 8, 2015 by GreyLady

[Mickonearth]

Yes Mike, that's what the famous benefit trap is. I could probably keep my HB by working a few paltry hours for a pittance, but as soon as I were to earn a meaningful wage, HB entitlement would stop. Therefore, I would never earn enough to save for a boat.

GreyLady - yes, I like the positive stuff! It suits my outlook better. And I am really grateful for all the advice from you lovely people. No need to argue, when you're all trying to help.

[GreyLady]

I must say, I'm puzzled by the OP's predicament. He believes taking work will remove his entitlement to housing benefit. I find this very hard to believe unless he already has some sort of independent income.

 

Is it really true? Getting a job means one's housing benefit is withdrawn? Or am I misinterpreting the OP?

We dont know Micks full situation, but if was well enough to work and got a part time job doing 20 hours a week on minimum wage I would loose my full housing benefit and council tax support rightly so, I could apply for part payment support towards both.

[Mickonearth]

Since I lost my job and went on HB, my landlord has maxed out the rent to the ceiling of what HB will pay. So that now, I couldn't afford to live in my flat if I worked. This is, unfortunately, a very common problem in London.

[magictime]

I don't know, Kris. I don't know how much money he needs, or even if he needs any money, because I don't know how the system works when an unemployed Housing Benefit claimant moves from one area to another. I don't know if he has friends or relatives he could stay with for a short time, or borrow a few hundred quid from. I don't know if he has any money saved up, or possessions he could sell that wouldn't fit on a boat anyway. What I do know is that coming on here and repeatedly implying that his only option is to turn to crime is an outrageous thing to do.

[kris88]

Sorry mick for encouraging you to become a criminal, I'm sure you won't. I was trying to encourage you, to go for your dream. No matter how bleak your situation seems, there's always a solution. The high rents, low wages trap is very common and not solely a London issue. Good luck with getting afloat. Don't worry about the arguing it's very common on this forum. People's ire is directed at me for leading you astray.

 

Regards kris

[bassplayer]

Hi all, I'm a totally inexperienced yet determined boat dreamer, and am seeking advice.

I'm currently caught in the benefits trap - huge rent prohibits me working as I'd become homeless if I did so. Not workshy, and once aboard, I'd be able to generate income towards buying my first narrowboat. Are there people who require boatsitters, and if so, how do I find them? Are there boats cheap to rent, who might accept housing benefit tenants? Are there people who might teach me a few basics in exchange for work, and my scintillating company? In fact, does anybody have any advice whatsoever for a keen bean with no capital?

Mick.

Hi Mick. Just a couple of thoughts. Have you got a driving licence? It's not unheard of for some people to live in a van for a while until they can get their feet back on the ground. You might be able to get some courier work too and make the van work for you.

 

Living on a boat is great if it's your cup of tea but it would be harder to get the boat to generate income.

 

Anyway, I really wish you the best whatever you decide to do.

[Southern Star]

I think the problem the OP faces is the same as most who live in London, rents are so high that it is all but impossible to save money even if a person has a reasonably well paid job. Realistically I'd say the best bet would to be to re-locate somewhere where living costs are more reasonable. Where I keep my boat (near Rugby) there is plenty of work around, rents are far, far lower and of course plenty of canals etc.

[MtB]

Yes Mike, that's what the famous benefit trap is. I could probably keep my HB by working a few paltry hours for a pittance, but as soon as I were to earn a meaningful wage, HB entitlement would stop. Therefore, I would never earn enough to save for a boat.

GreyLady - yes, I like the positive stuff! It suits my outlook better. And I am really grateful for all the advice from you lovely people. No need to argue, when you're all trying to help.

 

A brief Google shows its a helluvalot more complicated than that. I've just had a brief read here, for example.

 

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/housing_benefit_and_local_housing_allowance/what_is_housing_benefit/housing_benefit_calculations

 

 

It's perverse that your LHA tapers off as your income rises. Agreed this takes away the incentive to work. But I can't think of an answer to this benefit trap, and neither can anyone else or it wouldn't exist.

[blackrose]

Sorry to hijack this thread but it seems to have run its course anyway. Does anyone know if someone who's unemployed without income but not receiving any benefits (because they have savings and aren't eligible)，still has to pay for prescriptions from the doctor? I suspect the answer is "yes" but I can't seem to find a definitive answer anywhere.

[Southern Star]

Sorry to hijack this thread but it seems to have run its course anyway. Does anyone know if someone who's unemployed without income but not receiving any benefits (because they have savings and aren't eligible)，still has to pay for prescriptions from the doctor? I suspect the answer is "yes" but I can't seem to find a definitive answer anywhere.

I've been in this position and the answer is yes, you do have to pay. Free prescriptions only apply if you have income-based benefits, not contribution based benefits (it does state this on the prescription)

[blackrose]

I've been in this position and the answer is yes, you do have to pay. Free prescriptions only apply if you have income-based benefits, not contribution based benefits (it does state this on the prescription)

So presumably the answer is yes if you receive no benefits at all?

 

Thanks

Edited November 8, 2015 by blackrose

[Southern Star]

Yes, or no benefits at all. Unless things have changed in the last five years, you should be entitled to six month's JSA regardless of savings (although this is contribution based and you won't get free prescriptions) but you ought to sign on anyway because at the very least you will get your NI stamp paid.

[GreyLady]

Sorry to hijack this thread but it seems to have run its course anyway. Does anyone know if someone who's unemployed without income but not receiving any benefits (because they have savings and aren't eligible)，still has to pay for prescriptions from the doctor? I suspect the answer is "yes" but I can't seem to find a definitive answer anywhere.

Yes they would need to be registered as recieving a benefit to be eligiable for free presciptions, as far as I am aware.

 

I get free prescriptions and have to tick a ESA box on the green slip.

 

I think the savings cap allowance is around 16k for Job Seekers Allowance.