Don't trust the Trust anymore.

[RLWP]

I wonder why the OP hasn't been back since he opened this thread?

 

Because they are not familiar with the forum? It's not unusual for newbies to come back a day later and be surprised by the number of responses their threads get

 

Richard

[RockSodem]

Admittedly this may not help, but if you happen to have a smart phone with location services on, fire up google maps, and select "my timeline". Rather scarily it knows exactly where you have been each day.

[Guest]

Admittedly this may not help, but if you happen to have a smart phone with location services on, fire up google maps, and select "my timeline". Rather scarily it knows exactly where you have been each day.

 

I actually think that is the answer for some people and it has been suggested before on here.

 

Whilst it shouldn't really be down to boaters to 'prove' where they have been and when, it's a quick and easy way of doing it if you cannot be bothered to keep a written log.

Edited September 15, 2015 by MJG

[Emerald Fox]

You could tell them that you will contact them every time you move.

 

I have contacted CRT Customer Service twice in the past 4 weeks to let them know it is Somerton and not Summerton. It still has not been corrected:

 

Winter stoppages:

Summerton Deep Lock, Oxford

16/11/2015 - 27/11/2015

Gate reline works

( - and they forgot to put 'Canal' after Oxford.)

[Naughty Cal]

Admittedly this may not help, but if you happen to have a smart phone with location services on, fire up google maps, and select "my timeline". Rather scarily it knows exactly where you have been each day.

Where you are yes, but not necessarily where your boat is.

 

Mine for example shows that in the last week I have been in Sheffield, Northampton, Wellingborough, Barnsley, Worksop and Gateford. The boat however has been tucked up on it's berth in Lincoln.

[Tony Dunkley]

Admittedly this may not help, but if you happen to have a smart phone with location services on, fire up google maps, and select "my timeline". Rather scarily it knows exactly where you have been each day.

 

There is no value in being able to prove where your phone is on any particular day or number of days.

[cotswoldsman]

 

 

 

 

Sounds to me as though the OP is taking little trips out from time to time then returning to the same area for doctor/hospital appointments etc. IF this is right I'm not surprised CRT are objecting.

I have been drawn in now.

 

Out of interest have you read what the Judge in the Wingfield case said on that exact same point. As I am on the phone I can not copy and paste it on here now.

[magnetman]

 

I actually think that is the answer for some people and it has been suggested before on here.

 

Whilst it shouldn't really be down to boaters to 'prove' where they have been and when, it's a quick and easy way of doing it if you cannot be bothered to keep a written log.

But it would seem that it -is- up to boaters to "satisfy the board" ..

 

And the phone gps idea is flawed as NC says. Even a fixed gps can be unfixed. Eventually they will fit some sort of electronic system - once the cut is sold off the new owners will want their returns

[Guest]

But it would seem that it -is- up to boaters to "satisfy the board" ..

 

And the phone gps idea is flawed as NC says. Even a fixed gps can be unfixed. Eventually they will fit some sort of electronic system - once the cut is sold off the new owners will want their returns

 

... and what of written logs? they can be fabricated.

[tidal]

There is much to be gained from CWDF and other places for sources of information regarding all sorts of matters but I strongly urge you to get out on the canals and experience it for yourself what boating is like on the inland waterways as the prime factor in making up your mind.

 

It is certainly not a perfect world but no where near as bad as reading some threads on this forum and other places woudl have you believe either in my view. It is good to know what can happen when it goes wrong but the issue with the likes of CWDF is that it focuses on the negative and all the positive is almost ignored. Folk love a good collective moan or rant and that can't be done so easily with stories of how great it is boating on the cut.

 

Fortunately not all stories on here are gloom and doom and neither are the many blogs and web-pages of the members and I appreciate that most boaters still enjoy what they do for the majority of their time.

I am getting out and about more and (barring stoppages) will even be spending some time on friends boats over the winter months.

I'm the youngest of my boating group (at very very nearly 60) and they are always happy to have an extra pair of hands (and a little background experience)

[magnetman]

<reply to MJG>

 

Yes. I can't really see how you can satisfy the board by using a record of location anyway - its so easy to "fix" hence the reliance on data collectors (currently human beings walking or cycling the towpaths).

 

I suppose the theory is if you aren't pushing the limits then you will be ignored as junior suggested.

 

 

OTOH if everyone just follows Tony Dunkley's suggestion it may just become a free-for-all anyway. Or things could deteriorate rapidly.

Edited September 15, 2015 by magnetman

[Guest]

 

There is no value in being able to prove where your phone is on any particular day or number of days.

 

There would be if the Trust claimed they hadn't sighted your boat within a given period and made the assumption you had been stuck in one 'place' for longer than you should have been. Which seems to happen with some regularity these days.

[Tony Dunkley]

OTOH if everyone just follows Tony Dunkley's suggestion it may just become a free-for-all anyway. Or things could deteriorate rapidly.

 

You seem not to have noticed that, encouraged by the reluctance of the majority of boaters to stand up to them, C&RT were enjoying a boat and home stealing 'free for all' of their own making until recently.

Bullies invariably target the meek, the submissive and those they believe to be unable, for whatever reason, to defend themselves.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Tony Dunkley

[cotswoldsman]

I have been drawn in now.

 

Out of interest have you read what the Judge in the Wingfield case said on that exact same point. As I am on the phone I can not copy and paste it on here now.

The full transcript will be available to everyone next week.

What amazed me is that CART never asked or bothered to get a full transcript. Even though there was no judgement or ruling etc. The Judge does however offer some very sensible opinions and advice to CART concerning such matters as ccers who require regular medical attention and even goes as far as expressing an opinion on the different expectations CART should have from older ccers or ccers with medical problems

[patty-ann]

 

... and what of written logs? they can be fabricated.

They can be fabricated but its still solid evidence...not the same I know but my written record..log/diary..whatever you chose to call it became a powerful tool in tussle with solicitors who had not acted in my best interests..I had logged..times/dates etc and I was told that contemporaneous records are solid factual evidence that is difficult to fabricate or in my case disprove. I still keep logs/diaries having recognised how important they can be.I just jot down stuff..so easy to do.

[Naughty Cal]

They can be fabricated but its still solid evidence...not the same I know but my written record..log/diary..whatever you chose to call it became a powerful tool in tussle with solicitors who had not acted in my best interests..I had logged..times/dates etc and I was told that contemporaneous records are solid factual evidence that is difficult to fabricate or in my case disprove. I still keep logs/diaries having recognised how important they can be.I just jot down stuff..so easy to do.

Indeed it us.

 

Unless of course you have something to hide.

 

Fabricated logs never really read true anyway and are easy enough to spot from true records.

[Tony Dunkley]

 

There would be if the Trust claimed they hadn't sighted your boat within a given period and made the assumption you had been stuck in one 'place' for longer than you should have been. Which seems to happen with some regularity these days.

 

I know I'm not too well up with today's technology, but how does the whereabouts of a mobile phone establish and prove the location of a boat ?

[Sabcat]

 

I know I'm not too well up with today's technology, but how does the whereabouts of a mobile phone establish and prove the location of a boat ?

 

It can, if you use GPS/date data in the photograph of the boat.

[Delta9]

 

I know I'm not too well up with today's technology, but how does the whereabouts of a mobile phone establish and prove the location of a boat ?

It doesn't even prove the location of the phone, GPS logs are easy to fake.

[magnetman]

 

You seem not to have noticed that, encouraged by the reluctance of the majority of boaters to stand up to them, C&RT were enjoying a boat and home stealing 'free for all' of their own making until recently.

That's open to interpretation and I think accusing CRT of theft is a bit dodgy myself. I'm sure you are well up on the legal side so probably OK.

 

What do you think the medium term outcome will be (say 2025) if people in large numbers ignore CRT enforcement procedures - the ultimate example being if a lot of boaters chose mooring spots they liked and never moved at all just sticking two fingers up and exercising their right to do what they like.

 

Surely at some point something will break.

 

Or do you advocate relying on people on boats to behave in a reasonable manner in general? That's not really human nature is it.

[Guest]

 

I know I'm not too well up with today's technology, but how does the whereabouts of a mobile phone establish and prove the location of a boat ?

 

It doesn't 'prove' anything beyond reasonable doubt. But it can show you were you were on a specific waterway at a particular date/time.

 

Of course it relies on the application of common sense (this is bit no doubt you will claim it fails on the part of CRT) in that if your phone is ten miles up a water way from where you were yesterday that a - it was on you and b - you were on your boat at the time.

 

Now of course you could always stick your phone in your pocket and cycle about creating the illusion you have actually moved along the waterway, but where would you sleep?

 

Its not infallible but equally it requires no user input - just make sure location services is active on the phone and for the app. you are using that location services are active for that too. So it's not hard work. It all just happens in the background.

Edited September 15, 2015 by MJG

[tidal]

Umm

Years ago when I was keen on such things a couple of us (posters here and elsewhere) started writing an app that both tied in canal mapping systems and a log system for the then quite new i-phone.
We stopped work when we were beaten to it by another group/company
I can't for the life of me remember what the commercial app was called but I know it wasn't particularly data-hungry and was supported by i-phone and (I think, later) android)
Is it still around and is it suitable?

 

My last motorbike has a tiny (designed for pets) GPS tracker still fitted to it which uploads to a website for a small charge and shows where it is on google maps. The police loved it when the bike was nicked (from the new owner)and they found it again within 30 minutes

 

I'm sure something simple like that would be possible for a damned great canal boat and if I do get one myself I'm going to fit something similar.
And not just for CRT purposes

[Delta9]

 

 

 

Now of course you could always stick your phone in your pocket and cycle about creating the illusion you have actually moved along the waterway, but where would you sleep?

 

Or just spoof the GPS location from the comfort of your own bed...

[Guest]

Umm

Years ago when I was keen on such things a couple of us (posters here and elsewhere) started writing an app that both tied in canal mapping systems and a log system for the then quite new i-phone.

We stopped work when we were beaten to it by another group/company

I can't for the life of me remember what the commercial app was called but I know it wasn't particularly data-hungry and was supported by i-phone and (I think, later) android)

Is it still around and is it suitable?

 

My last motorbike has a tiny (designed for pets) GPS tracker still fitted to it which uploads to a website for a small charge and shows where it is on google maps. The police loved it when the bike was nicked (from the new owner)and they found it again within 30 minutes

 

I'm sure something simple like that would be possible for a damned great canal boat and if I do get one myself I'm going to fit something similar.

And not just for CRT purposes

 

There is also this-

 

http://www.waterexplorer.co.uk/

 

Or is that what you were talking about?

Edited September 15, 2015 by MJG

[Tony Dunkley]

That's open to interpretation and I think accusing CRT of theft is a bit dodgy myself. I'm sure you are well up on the legal side so probably OK.

 

What do you think the medium term outcome will be (say 2025) if people in large numbers ignore CRT enforcement procedures - the ultimate example being if a lot of boaters chose mooring spots they liked and never moved at all just sticking two fingers up and exercising their right to do what they like.

 

Surely at some point something will break.

 

Or do you advocate relying on people on boats to behave in a reasonable manner in general? That's not really human nature is it.

 

This thread isn't about hordes of boats mooring wherever they like for as long as they like. It's about the alleged harassment and threatening of someone who appears to be doing nothing more than the law permits.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Tony Dunkley