GRP

[Timx]

Hi, any recommendations on heating for a GRP, I want to cruise up north ,from October on a Norman Mid cockpit 27ft diesel 1.5 BMC.I have a 1500 inverter, one starter and two leisure batteries. I have a Paloma and a calorifier heated water off engine, I am looking at a low wattage oil heater to leave on overnight, so any recommendations to buy off amazon or e bay that would be power efficient. The boat is not insulated so would probably need one in back cabin as well if I don't winterise. Also would it be wise to buy some sort of 12v greenhouse heater type thing for engine bay even if spending time on it. Any thoughts appreciated.

[kevinl]

My thoughts are don't do it or if you do buy the best Artic sleeping bag you can get. Floating around on an unheated GRP with no shore power in winter is an acquired art. You'll freeze and your engine will too. It is doable but not desirable. Others with GRP's will no doubt be on here and tell you what can be done (and by that I mean boast about all the things they have and you don't like shore power or a diesel heater) but if you have an unheated GRP in the winter forget it and as for buying a greenhouse heater, all well and good until you're fighting for the last remaining oxygen when the heater will win and you, well...

Any form of off line electric hearing will kill your batteries dead in no time and on a GRP there isn't enough rom for any significant amount of solar.

I'm not anti GRP and as I say others will tell you it can be done, then tell you it can be done but not inside your parameters, if you're Bear Grylls then go for it but ever out anything that's taking you oxygen out of circulation, it's a battle you won't win, but we will send flowers.

K

[Phil Ambrose]

As Kevini says unless you have a solid fuel or a diesel heater be prepared to be cold and miserable. If you do the maths you will see that heating by electric is never going to work,I am pro GRP having lived on one for 10 years.

Phil

[John V]

Many do live onboard GRP craft, some in marinas with benefit of shore power some without. I have cruised my 25' GRP cruiser in pretty inclement weather and survived but I would not chose to live on it full time although I know a couple who lived on their identical boat for 3 years (with shore power) and that type of boat is only partially (and slightly) insulated. I have fitted this summer a gas heater (Propex) to replace an diesel heater but have yet to try it out in severe weather. Craftycarper swears by solidfuel stoves (in GRP) and some use the little charcoal heaters designed for yachts. there is quite a lot of info about this subject scattered through the forum and using the "search" facility (although a bit tedious) will find you quite a lot here is one for you to start on.....goodluck John see edit ....sorry

 

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=76419

 

 

ETA......sorry I didn't look at your post count...I thought you were a new poster....... didn't mean to try and teach you to suck eggs

Edited August 16, 2015 by John V

[craftycarper]

Many do live onboard GRP craft, some in marinas with benefit of shore power some without. I have cruised my 25' GRP cruiser in pretty inclement weather and survived but I would not chose to live on it full time although I know a couple who lived on their identical boat for 3 years (with shore power) and that type of boat is only partially (and slightly) insulated. I have fitted this summer a gas heater (Propex) to replace an diesel heater but have yet to try it out in severe weather. Craftycarper swears by solidfuel stoves (in GRP) and some use the little charcoal heaters designed for yachts. there is quite a lot of info about this subject scattered through the forum and using the "search" facility (although a bit tedious) will find you quite a lot here is one for you to start on.....goodluck John see edit ....sorry

 

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=76419

 

 

ETA......sorry I didn't look at your post count...I thought you were a new poster....... didn't mean to try and teach you to suck eggs

 

as John say,s, my old centre cockpit has had a boatman stove in it fo most of its life, 1986 , and it works well, a previous owner lived on her for 12 years on the mon/brec canal and it gets pretty cold up there, mine is quite a bit bigger than most, and all the other flamible thing,s, gas,petrol,battery,s and engine are all under a rear deck outside of the main living area,s, as you have two smaller cabs I would say you could keep them warm with a couple of those little clay pot with tea light candle heaters, look it up on utube if you don't know what I mean, they throw out a fair bit of heat cost pence to run and won't need any permanent alterations to your boat, the big unknown is always going to be, how bad will the winter be, you will struggle in any boat if it's like 63 or it could be a mild affair were you only need a big duvet, through necessity comes invention, so good luck and be safe,

[MEPitt]

My tuppance worth spending this weekend on the 27ft GRP craft Im buying. It has a small woodburning stove in the fore cabin, my dad has spent a lot of time on this boat (although failing health has meant he has not been a true liveaboard) and has never had problems heating the cabin with the wee stove (it is bloody tiny!). Ive been on board when its cold and the stove burning away and its been very cosy! In comparison the aft cabin was unbearably cold!

[bottle]

Smallest electric tube heater I know of is 500 Watts,

 

I will make few assumptions but the piece below will give you some idea why electric heating with your set up will not work

 

Lets assume your domestic batteries are fully charged and have the ability to hold their full capacity (brand new).

 

They are of the 'norm' 110 amp.hr leisure battery

 

The heater will need an inverter to obtain 240v ac,

 

The battery bank capacity is 220 amp.hrs. @12v

 

The load on the batteries allowing for inefficiency of inverter is 50 amps (12v system)

 

So using the guideline of not allowing the batteries to go below 50% SOC (to reduce the knackering demise of them in a few days/weeks)

 

You have 110 amp.hrs available.

 

You therefore have 2.2 hrs of heating, you will then have to recharge the batteries.

 

Depending on charge system (alternator size) it could take all day.

 

Another point, your boat is uninsulated and to raise the temperature of any space you need to put in more heat than is escaping.

 

If your boat loses 500watts ( for pedants I know this is not the correct way of measuring it) and you are putting in 500 watts, then the temperature of the boat will not change.

[Laurie Booth]

as John say,s, my old centre cockpit has had a boatman stove in it fo most of its life, 1986 , and it works well, a previous owner lived on her for 12 years on the mon/brec canal and it gets pretty cold up there, mine is quite a bit bigger than most, and all the other flamible thing,s, gas,petrol,battery,s and engine are all under a rear deck outside of the main living area,s, as you have two smaller cabs I would say you could keep them warm with a couple of those little clay pot with tea light candle heaters, look it up on utube if you don't know what I mean, they throw out a fair bit of heat cost pence to run and won't need any permanent alterations to your boat, the big unknown is always going to be, how bad will the winter be, you will struggle in any boat if it's like 63 or it could be a mild affair were you only need a big duvet, through necessity comes invention, so good luck and be safe,

I take it this post about candles is a joke?

Edited August 16, 2015 by Laurie.Booth

[craftycarper]

I take it this post about candles is a joke?

. Try it then tell me, I use them, not on a boat as I have a stove but in the gazebo, and my little outhouse, warm as toast as I said look it up on utube,

[sal garfi]

I take it this post about candles is a joke?

 

I've just looked it up - it's not!

[craftycarper]

My tuppance worth spending this weekend on the 27ft GRP craft Im buying. It has a small woodburning stove in the fore cabin, my dad has spent a lot of time on this boat (although failing health has meant he has not been a true liveaboard) and has never had problems heating the cabin with the wee stove (it is bloody tiny!). Ive been on board when its cold and the stove burning away and its been very cosy! In comparison the aft cabin was unbearably cold!

. Get some of that elephant trunk type ducting, and a small 12v computer fan fitted in the end just behind the fire then just pump the warm air under the cockpit floor into the rear cab, it's on my jobs to do for the winter list, though by keeping the doors open and the Eco fan spinning it still does,nt get to cold out there, although I am on electric hook up at the mo so just keep one of those little oil filled rads running on min all winter, saves me having to worry about draining down the boiler and shower every time weather takes a dive, I will admit to being a bit of a caveman, but have spent many nights onboard when all around me is ice, and have never really felt at risk Edited August 16, 2015 by craftycarper

[Timx]

Thanks for those answers, it has made me think again and look for plan b.

[Arthur Brown]

Solid fuel is usually cheapest, but electrically controlled gas or diesel usually the most convenient -can be timed to come on and go off.

 

FORGET trying to generate electricity to make heat from it.

 

MOST importantly think where the fumes will go. You need warm fresh air to breathe not fire fumes with CO, CO₂ and a shortage of oxygen.

 

Probably the cheapest convenient fuel is mains electricity from a shoreline bollard. -rent a winter mooring with shoreline.

[Heffalump]

Probably the cheapest convenient fuel is mains electricity from a shoreline bollard. -rent a winter mooring with shoreline.

 

Not really one of the OP's options as he wants to cruise for the winter!

[craftycarper]

Thanks for those answers, it has made me think again and look for plan b.

. Wow we have,nt even got to autumn and your quitting already, the most important thing in any survival situation, is your own resolve and a positive mental attitude, look for solutions, not problems, it's well doable with the right prep, I have a military arctic sleeping bag and I have slept out on the towpath in tempatures as low as minus 5. (because I was fishing not for the hell of it) I have done that most Friday nights for the last 20 years only stopping if the water was to frozen to get my baits in Edited August 16, 2015 by craftycarper

[Laurie Booth]

. Try it then tell me, I use them, not on a boat as I have a stove but in the gazebo, and my little outhouse, warm as toast as I said look it up on utube,

The post on YouTube is a joke.

[bottle]

A candle, night light puts out a certain amount of heat, putting it under a flower pot (not plastic) does not change that, all it does is concentrate it into one place.

 

Light candle, heat is used to warm pot, heat the radiates from pot to surrounding area candle goes out, pot stays warm but then cools.

 

Energy output is just the same but there will be losses in heating the pot from the candle and then the pot heating the surrounding air.

 

I think this will be one of those things that believers will believe and those who dis-believe will dis-believe and never the twain will meet.

 

Of course with enough candles, night lights and flowerpots, you could heat the Royal Albert Hall.

[MEPitt]

. Get some of that elephant trunk type ducting, and a small 12v computer fan fitted in the end just behind the fire then just pump the warm air under the cockpit floor into the rear cab

 

Ohh never thought of that! Good idea! To be honest I might not do it as Ill just hang around in the fore cabin and avoid the walk in freezer that will be the aft cabin but if I really want to start using that cabin in the winter its a top plan.

[BilgePump]

Electric heating via inverter is a nonstarter in this situation imho. Without shore power you're only really left with burning some kind of fuel. First thing would be to fit a couple of carbon monoxide detectors. Simplest thing is a hurricane lamp safely positioned near a vent. Many small grp cruisers manage to accommodate a small gypsy/boatman stove. If you can fit one in, a stove is a great friend in winter but poss difficult your N27 being mid cockpit and a major fit in any boat needing surround chimney etc. I've found sometimes in the winter the only thing you can do is keep yourself warm rather than the boat. Expedition sleeping bag, duvet, multiple hats, salopettes, long john thermals etc. Just keeping the boat above zero can be hard enough. Water, sewage, frozen locks etc will take up most of your time, but what the hell arctic boating will still beat a summer's day at work!

[Timx]

Thanks for replies,I think I will just have to plan ahead and moor in marinas overnight if I can and then I will have shore power, I will shop around for a gas heater for when I don't make it and I have the hob top for emergencies.

[Heffalump]

Please carry a CO alarm

[MEPitt]

So looking forward to winter on my boat, im going to look like something out of Ice Station Zebra!

[BilgePump]

Please forget the hob. One way ticket to the grave http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-27786195

[craftycarper]

Please forget the hob. One way ticket to the grave http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-27786195

definitely instal co2 alarms in both cabins as heffalump has said, regardless of which heating you use, the last time my co2 alarm went off it was due to wind blowing into the back of the boat and pushing exhaust fumes in, when the engine was running, it's not worth risking life to save a tenner,

[craftycarper]

The post on YouTube is a joke.

. Try it, it won't break the bank and will work, we are talking an area roughly 6ft square, ( rear cab of a 27ft centre cockpit ) I would use one pot and three candles to keep an area that big comfy, you can also get ten hour tea lights to take you through the longest nights, after you,ve fitted your co2 alarm, total cost about £20 including co alarm large clay pot and a box of tea lights from ikea, worth a punt I,d say