Speeding Cyclist injures Dog on towpath

[mattlad]

The fact remains that cars kill infinitely more people than bikes.

On the road yes.

 

On a towpath, extremely doubtful!

[Cheshire cat]

A cyclist crashed into the back of me six weeks ago because I decided to stop to let a bus out. After he'd picked himself up he said "Sorry mate, no harm done, it was only tyre contact" and shot off down a side street. When I'd recovered from the shock i had a look at my mangled tailgate. I'm now £700 poorer.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Cheshire cat

[Locksprite]

A cyclist crashed into the back of me six weeks ago because I decided to stop to let a bus out. After he'd picked himself up he said "Sorry mate, no harm done, it was only tyre contact" and shot off down a side street. When I'd recovered from the shock i had a look at my mangled tailgate. I'm now £700 poorer.

I carry a camera for such eventualities, and am adept at removing a quick release wheel if that doesn't work.

On the road yes.

 

On a towpath, extremely doubtful!

How many people are killed by cyclists on a tow path in an average year?

[Jerra]

How many people are killed by cyclists on a tow path in an average year?

Probably more than are killed by cars on the tow path!

[Locksprite]

Probably more than are killed by cars on the tow path!

Has anyone been killed by a bicycle on a tow path? How many people drown falling into the canal each year? Should we fill canals in because they're dangerous?

[Jerra]

Has anyone been killed by a bicycle on a tow path? How many people drown falling into the canal each year? Should we fill canals in because they're dangerous?

When the canals start whizzing along at breakneck speed controlled by somebody with no care for other users perhaps they will fill them in as too dangerous.

[Murflynn]

When the canals start whizzing along at breakneck speed controlled by somebody with no care for other users perhaps they will fill them in as too dangerous.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Locksprite - get real

Edited July 21, 2015 by Murflynn

[Locksprite]

When the canals start whizzing along at breakneck speed controlled by somebody with no care for other users perhaps they will fill them in as too dangerous.

I think everyone agrees that cyclists who travel too quickly in close proximity to pedestrians are a hazard and a PIA, just as car drivers that travel too quickly close to pedestrians, cyclists and other cars are dangerous. I'm questioning whether the perceived hazard of speeding bicycles is as dangerous as people are suggesting in reality. A number of people die every year falling into canals, but I hope no one is suggesting health and safety legislation should be brought in to ensure that such an eventuality is not possible.

 

Canals are a multi-purpose leisure environment in which users have to interact. Making everyone pay for the activities of the idiot few is a slippery slope, or we'll be closing down sections of canal where lock gates have been rammed on the basis people haven't learnt to play with the toys nicely. The whole scare story thing is a bit Daily Mail for my taste, blame x for the nations failings to distract them from the real problems.

[furnessvale]

I think everyone agrees that cyclists who travel too quickly in close proximity to pedestrians are a hazard and a PIA, just as car drivers that travel too quickly close to pedestrians, cyclists and other cars are dangerous. I'm questioning whether the perceived hazard of speeding bicycles is as dangerous as people are suggesting in reality. A number of people die every year falling into canals, but I hope no one is suggesting health and safety legislation should be brought in to ensure that such an eventuality is not possible.

 

Canals are a multi-purpose leisure environment in which users have to interact. Making everyone pay for the activities of the idiot few is a slippery slope, or we'll be closing down sections of canal where lock gates have been rammed on the basis people haven't learnt to play with the toys nicely. The whole scare story thing is a bit Daily Mail for my taste, blame x for the nations failings to distract them from the real problems.

The "perceived" danger is certainly there.

 

The only reason it does not translate into actual danger is the willingness of others to jump out of the way.

 

I have been abused for not moving fast enough, so has my wife. Surprisingly (not) they have not bothered to remain at the scene to discuss the matter!

 

Lycra lout is a fitting description for a percentage of cyclists and if the cap fits anyone reading this, wear it!

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Jerra]

I'm questioning whether the perceived hazard of speeding bicycles is as dangerous as people are suggesting in reality.

I think the point is that with drowning you are either dead or just wet. Deaths from drowning are sadly not uncommon but they happen to an individual through accident, sometimes self inflicted due to drink or drugs.

 

Cycling accidents cause can injury up to an including death. To be hit by a bike and end up with cuts and bruises is probably the least you can expect from a collision, for most people a fall into the canal results in being soaked and probably laughed at by the spectators.

 

I don't feel you can down grade the risks of fast moving irresponsible cyclists just because there are worse occurrences.

[Locksprite]

 

I don't feel you can down grade the risks of fast moving irresponsible cyclists just because there are worse occurrences.

I am one of the more vulnerable canal users in so far as I walk the tow paths with a dog off a lead, or I sit by one fishing. The number of dangerously ridden bikes I encounter as a proportion of total cyclists, does not lead me to believe draconian measures are necessary. This should in no way suggest some canal path users aren't complete gits.

[Jerra]

I am one of the more vulnerable canal users in so far as I walk the tow paths with a dog off a lead, or I sit by one fishing. The number of dangerously ridden bikes I encounter as a proportion of total cyclists, does not lead me to believe draconian measures are necessary. This should in no way suggest some canal path users aren't complete gits.

Having been clipped by handle bars a few times I believe measures are needed. The point is Mum and Dad out with the kids or the normal recreational cyclist wouldn't object (IMO) to the odd slowing down measure. The parents might even welcome it as kids on bikes and fast cycling can present a problem.

 

The measures wouldn't need to be too frequent as, as far as I can tell it is the ability to travel at speed over good distances which attracts the twits. Something which allowed a bike or push chair to be passed under (without rider of course) and a pedestrian through, with a curve the bike can't get round should suffice. Made in something difficult to vanadalise say pre-cast concrete concreted in. Painted green or encouraged to grow mosses and lichens if bare concrete offends anyone,s sense of the aesthetics.

 

No more draconian (IMO less so) than speed humps on roads.

[Locksprite]

Having been clipped by handle bars a few times I believe measures are needed. The point is Mum and Dad out with the kids or the normal recreational cyclist wouldn't object (IMO) to the odd slowing down measure. The parents might even welcome it as kids on bikes and fast cycling can present a problem.

 

The measures wouldn't need to be too frequent as, as far as I can tell it is the ability to travel at speed over good distances which attracts the twits. Something which allowed a bike or push chair to be passed under (without rider of course) and a pedestrian through, with a curve the bike can't get round should suffice. Made in something difficult to vanadalise say pre-cast concrete concreted in. Painted green or encouraged to grow mosses and lichens if bare concrete offends anyone,s sense of the aesthetics.

 

No more draconian (IMO less so) than speed humps on roads.

I can't see it working. There are pinch gates on some stretches of canal, but they slow down speeding cyclists for the few pedal strokes it takes to get back up to whatever they were riding at previously. Unless you're advocating such things every 100 yds on every canal bank in the country, with the huge cost, environmental unsightliness and inconvenience to all reasonable tow path users, it's a sledge hammer to crack a nut. Cheaper to put up slow down signs, and divert a few special coppers onto known trouble spots to nick the baddies.

[Jerra]

I can't see it working. There are pinch gates on some stretches of canal, but they slow down speeding cyclists for the few pedal strokes it takes to get back up to whatever they were riding at previously. Unless you're advocating such things every 100 yds on every canal bank in the country, with the huge cost, environmental unsightliness and inconvenience to all reasonable tow path users, it's a sledge hammer to crack a nut. Cheaper to put up slow down signs, and divert a few special coppers onto known trouble spots to nick the baddies.

You obviously didn't read what I wrote very well or didn't understand it. I am talking about a cyclist dismounting and passing their bike under an obstruction. I don't feel they would need to be very often. As I said as far as I can see the main problem is two fold. Commuters with a schedule to get to work and people time trialing.

 

Commuters would either find another route or schedule their start time so they weren't going at such speeds. The time trialers would find the dismount (and perhaps queue) for the obstacle reduced their interest/fun/purpose of time trialling. The frequency of the obstacles could be adjusted to local conditions. More frequent in urban areas/improved towpaths less frequent or not needed on the more rural/poorer surfaces.

 

Their effect could easily be tested in a few areas and if successful introduced to where every they were needed.

[Locksprite]

You obviously didn't read what I wrote very well or didn't understand it. I am talking about a cyclist dismounting and passing their bike under an obstruction. I don't feel they would need to be very often. As I said as far as I can see the main problem is two fold. Commuters with a schedule to get to work and people time trialing.

 

Commuters would either find another route or schedule their start time so they weren't going at such speeds. The time trialers would find the dismount (and perhaps queue) for the obstacle reduced their interest/fun/purpose of time trialling. The frequency of the obstacles could be adjusted to local conditions. More frequent in urban areas/improved towpaths less frequent or not needed on the more rural/poorer surfaces.

 

Their effect could easily be tested in a few areas and if successful introduced to where every they were needed.

I'd suggest in most rural areas it isn't a persistent problem, and on urban tow paths there may be enough room to divide a cycle path from a footpath. Mixing pedestrians and cyclists in constantly shared areas like shopping precincts and urban paths is never a good idea, as the relative difference in speed is too great, and rights and responsibilities are not clearly defined.

 

I agree that intervention needs to be applied to areas where the issue is a known problem, not to areas where conflicts are once in a blue moon affairs.

[Cheshire cat]

^{You are forgetting that in many cases the improvement has come about because the initiative is externally funded. In effect C&RT 's hands are tied}

^{It's not limited to C&RT. The Bridgewater towpath has been upgraded recently along the stretch between Stretford and Altrincham. The number of cyclist commuters has greatly increased and so has leisure cycling too. Unfortunately the pedestrian traffic is accustomed to having the towpath for their exclusive use and are surprised when cyclists appear out of nowhere.}

 

^{Edited to increase font size}

Edited July 21, 2015 by Cheshire cat

[Stephen Sugg]

 

Some while ago my dog managed to send a high speed, Lycra clad pillock, complete with his bike into the Nottingham Canal by standing her ground as he sped towards her, . . . . the loony on the bike bottled out and Betsy didn't.

I don't think I've ever seen anything funnier than this clown draped with weed and standing nearly waist deep in the cut, trying to get his mobile phone to work so he could report this dangerous and out of control dog to the Police.

After giving up trying to make his phone call, he then began complaining, still waist deep some way out from the towpath, that he may be unable to find and recover his bike from the water. I assured him that if he was unable to find his own bike, then there would almost certainly be others in there that he could go home with instead.

Maybe it's the cyclist in me, or maybe it's the grown up in me, but I fail to see what is funny in the slightest about this. So, you have never seen anything funnier than a man trying to avoid hitting a dog and ending up in the canal?! What's funny about that? I would have thought given the tone of most of this thread he should be applauded, after all, he avoided a dog! I presume the dog was not on a lead, otherwise you as a thoughtful owner would have moved the dog politely out of the way, as, as we all know, topwaths are currently allowed to be used by walker, boaters and even cyclists.

[mayalld]

^{You are forgetting that in many cases the improvement has come about because the initiative is externally funded. In effect C&RT 's hands are tied}

 

Nonsense!

 

Nobody forced them to accept the money to "improve" the towpath.

[Morat]

When the canals start whizzing along at breakneck speed controlled by somebody with no care for other users perhaps they will fill them in as too dangerous.

 

When we get legal definitions for "Whizzing" and "Breakneck Speed" we can take this post seriously. Until then, it's just emotive language.

[Murflynn]

simples - all movements on and around the canal should be limited to a comfortable walking pace.

we boaters do it already, just needs the others to come into line.

oh, hang on a minute, pedestrians also walk at walking speed - so it's only the bikers that are out of step.

 

anything more than a reasonable speed relative to pedestrians is too fast.

our local parks have a limit of 10mph, it seems to work well for everybody.

 

lycra clad bikers wanting to break a speed record do not belong on a shared footpath, let alone a towpath.

commuters travelling significant distances, who need to keep up a good speed to get to work on time, do not belong on a footpath, let alone a towpath.

 

the problem is that bikers view canal towpaths as motorways - relatively straight and level - and they expect to be able to keep up a steady speed as a result.

pedestrians, anglers, dogs and boaters are just a bloody nuisance.

 

I support the concept of frequent speed breakers of a suitable design, to remind bikers that it is not a speedway.

chicanes formed from 2 long concrete blocks (about the size of railway sleepers), set at an angle and 3 ft apart would do the trick.

[gaggle]

Maybe as the general public "visitors " began to stay away from the towpaths due to dangerous dickheads on bikes putting them in danger CRT will take action .

[Locksprite]

simples - all movements on and around the canal should be limited to a comfortable walking pace.

we boaters do it already, just needs the others to come into line.

oh, hang on a minute, pedestrians also walk at walking speed - so it's only the bikers that are out of step.

 

anything more than a reasonable speed relative to pedestrians is too fast.

our local parks have a limit of 10mph, it seems to work well for everybody.

 

lycra clad bikers wanting to break a speed record do not belong on a shared footpath, let alone a towpath.

commuters travelling significant distances, who need to keep up a good speed to get to work on time, do not belong on a footpath, let alone a towpath.

 

the problem is that bikers view canal towpaths as motorways - relatively straight and level - and they expect to be able to keep up a steady speed as a result.

pedestrians, anglers, dogs and boaters are just a bloody nuisance.

 

I support the concept of frequent speed breakers of a suitable design, to remind bikers that it is not a speedway.

chicanes formed from 2 long concrete blocks (about the size of railway sleepers), set at an angle and 3 ft apart would do the trick.

Is it okay if the speeding cyclists wear tweed instead of lycra? What about joggers breaking the speed limit?

[Murflynn]

Is it okay if the speeding cyclists wear tweed instead of lycra? What about joggers breaking the speed limit?

now you are just being frivolous.

[Cheshire cat]

 

Nonsense!

 

Nobody forced them to accept the money to "improve" the towpath.

You 're right nobody forced them, but widening the appeal of the towpaths might win them more "friends" which is surely the aim.

 

Peel Holdings didn't need to do it. Indeed they had signs up forbidding cycling and cycle traps completely blocking the towpath through Sale, Brooklands and Altrincham. You couldn't get passed them unless you dismounted and lifted your bike over them.

 

Then along came Sustrans with a bag of gold. Presumably the cycle traps were weighed in. Only one remains, outside a nursery in Sale.

[Tony Dunkley]

Maybe it's the cyclist in me, or maybe it's the grown up in me, but I fail to see what is funny in the slightest about this. So, you have never seen anything funnier than a man trying to avoid hitting a dog and ending up in the canal?! What's funny about that? I would have thought given the tone of most of this thread he should be applauded, after all, he avoided a dog! I presume the dog was not on a lead, otherwise you as a thoughtful owner would have moved the dog politely out of the way, as, as we all know, topwaths are currently allowed to be used by walker, boaters and even cyclists.

 

The fact that the HSLCP ended up in the cut was a direct consequence of his ridiculously high speed and my dogs' unwillingness to scuttle out of his way. In fact, my dog perceived the cyclist's noisy and rapid approach as aggression, and had she not been on a lead and at my side, then I think this idiot would probably have ended up with a lot more than a soaking.