Ernest Thomas amongst others

[AMModels]

Im wondering if anyone can help on this one, I am hoping some kind person out there wont mind sharing a photo or two they have taken of historic boats. Im looking for side on pics of the panels with colour schemes on particularly of Ernie Thomas' but other BCN carriers would be great if unlikely.

Edited July 3, 2015 by AMModels

[Ray T]

http://www.allensregister.com/BCNS_Photo_Gallery11.php

 

From above:

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=67190

 

I'm going over to our boat tomorrow I'll look in "Colours of The Cut" assuming you haven't already.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Ray T

[Laurence Hogg]

Andy, this is a minefield to walk in. Most of the concerns in particular Thomas and Yates Bros had a variety of colour schemes, ie on the Thomas tugs the upper "plank" was either plain black, yellow or light blue to name just one. And nearer home for you look at the variety in T&S Elements.

You really need to aim at specific boats at a certain time boats to get an accurate representation.

[AMModels]

Thanks both appreciate the messages. I dont have the colours of the cut book Ray, might have to look out for a copy on fleabay.

[Ray T]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1843061457?keywords=colours%20of%20the%20cut&qid=1435943977&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

 

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Paget-Tomlinson-Edward-COLOURS-OF-THE-CUT-THE-COMPANY-COLOURS-OF-THE-INLAND-W-/361317821255?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5420386b47

 

Not cheap!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[David Mack]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1843061457?keywords=colours%20of%20the%20cut&qid=1435943977&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

 

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Paget-Tomlinson-Edward-COLOURS-OF-THE-CUT-THE-COMPANY-COLOURS-OF-THE-INLAND-W-/361317821255?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5420386b47

 

Not cheap!!!

 

I let a number go by on Ebay before bidding on one that nobody else seemed to have spotted. Got it for a very good price and virtually brand new condition too. But I did have to wait a while.

[1agos]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Colours-Cut-Landmark-Countryside-Collection/dp/1843061457

 

£38.00

 

 

Should of said ditto

Edited July 3, 2015 by 1agos

[David Schweizer]

One Upmanship !! I bought my copy, brand new, when it was first published.

Edited July 3, 2015 by David Schweizer

[AMModels]

I had the very great fortune to meet EPT a few years before he passed away, he was a real gentleman and we spoke about Keays dock and the people and boats we both knew and having not long moved to wales he told me I HAD to visit the Ffestiniog railway, never mentioning he had written a book about it. He was interested in my model making and very supportive, as I say a real gentleman and I was saddened to hear when he died. Will definitely pick up a copy... not at £65 though.

[Tim Lewis]

Edited numpty post

 

 

Edited July 4, 2015 by Tim Lewis

[Ray T]

Andy, you have a PM.

[Tim Lewis]

^{£30 from Oxfam!}

 

^{http://www.oxfam.org.uk/shop/books/art-architecture-photography/colours-of-the-cut-the-company-colours-of-the-inland-waterway-working-boats-of-hd_100483882}

 

^Tim

[AMModels]

Managed to pick up an ex library copy from ebay for £20 so Im pleased with that.

 

Laurence one thing Ive never seen a photo of or found one in JH's collection down Essex st is one of ET's full length carrying motors. I know he had them as that was the reason my grandad went to Elements, Ernie had promised him one of the carrying motors fresh off the dock as a reward and when it came off the blocks he gave it to someone else and despite ET offering him the next one and other things he left that day first for his uncle Charlie Bates' haulage firm (horses) working for Kimberley Beddoes Oldbury and then on to Elements.

 

Did Kimberley Beddoes have their own boats gauged?

[pete harrison]

Did Kimberley Beddoes have their own boats gauged?

Yes

 

edit = 29, all of which were wooden with a cabin. Some are listed as hired but it not always clear whom from, and all boats that they appear to own were second hand.

 

edit 2 = 103 if you include the all of the boats gauged in the name of Kimberley & Co. These now include a few iron boats and a few without a cabin.

 

edit 3 = there are also 61 boats gauged in the name of Hadley Beddoes & Co., and I imagine several of these found their way into the Kimberley Beddoes & Co. Ltd. fleet

Edited July 7, 2015 by pete harrison

[AMModels]

Cheers Pete I knew youd have the answer.

[Laurence Hogg]

Managed to pick up an ex library copy from ebay for £20 so Im pleased with that.

 

Laurence one thing Ive never seen a photo of or found one in JH's collection down Essex st is one of ET's full length carrying motors. I know he had them as that was the reason my grandad went to Elements, Ernie had promised him one of the carrying motors fresh off the dock as a reward and when it came off the blocks he gave it to someone else and despite ET offering him the next one and other things he left that day first for his uncle Charlie Bates' haulage firm (horses) working for Kimberley Beddoes Oldbury and then on to Elements.

 

Did Kimberley Beddoes have their own boats gauged?

 

Andy,

I have never seen a picture of a full length carrying motor for ET. I have some for TSE and LLL, also the few odd firms that had ex FMC boats as tugs. Maybe he hired them out?

"Pilot", "Sultan" and "Empress" & "Vulcan" were owned by him, we know Pilot got scrapped, Vulcan became the ET, its odd the others were never photographed, bit of an odd one, Ray never mentioned full length carrying boats to me either. Cannot help on this one.

[AMModels]

 

Andy,

I have never seen a picture of a full length carrying motor for ET. I have some for TSE and LLL, also the few odd firms that had ex FMC boats as tugs. Maybe he hired them out?

"Pilot", "Sultan" and "Empress" & "Vulcan" were owned by him, we know Pilot got scrapped, Vulcan became the ET, its odd the others were never photographed, bit of an odd one, Ray never mentioned full length carrying boats to me either. Cannot help on this one.

 

Yeah its had me wondering for a while, we know Vulcan was converted in early 50's yet ET had owned her from 40's? Empress was numbered 18 iirc as full length but like you say no photos have surfaced of any of them. The big crane couldnt life out full length boats because of the two legs right next to the canal but there are photos of Vulcan/ET in the shop being cabined so I presume they were pulled out the old way up the ramp at the wet dock end of the yard?

[pete harrison]

Empress was numbered 18 iirc as full length but like you say no photos have surfaced of any of them.

This seems as good a place as any to compile a list of Ernest Thomas tugs along with their fleet numbers.

 

edit = anybody want to have a go ?

Edited July 8, 2015 by pete harrison

[AMModels]

Enterprise ........... No 1

Birchills ............... No 2

uk

Dot .......................No 4

 

then I wouldnt like to try numbering them for a list from memory.

 

Tugs and motors were numbered as I was told.

 

Apollo

Mercury (ex Colonel)

Vulcan

Empress

Pilot

 

eta

 

Robin - which may be for sale in its converted form.

Edited July 8, 2015 by AMModels

[pete harrison]

Dot .......................No 4

I have heard several people (and websites) state that DOT 4 was built out of former Midlands and Coast motor APOLLO. The period photographs I have seen of DOT 4 look to be of a wooden hulled boat, and possibly powered by a Bolinder (by exhaust position).

[AMModels]

Yup I agree Pete, I perpetuated the misfact after copying from Roger Fullers working boat website, with his full permission of course.

 

The error is still on my site but I havent had the time or ability to change it since I noticed the problem.

[Laurence Hogg]

I have heard several people (and websites) state that DOT 4 was built out of former Midlands and Coast motor APOLLO. The period photographs I have seen of DOT 4 look to be of a wooden hulled boat, and possibly powered by a Bolinder (by exhaust position).

This is correct Pete Dot was No 4. There was another Bichills too also No2, a wooden boat. Apollo I believe was No3 as it operated in the final years with Enterprise and Bichills, nos 1 & 2.

Yup I agree Pete, I perpetuated the misfact after copying from Roger Fullers working boat website, with his full permission of course.

 

The error is still on my site but I havent had the time or ability to change it since I noticed the problem.

 

Why don't you take the site down Andy, there are many mistakes, you could start fresh then.

 

The BR data base is a model to copy: http://www.brdatabase.info/index.php

Edited July 8, 2015 by Laurence Hogg

[AMModels]

I may well do that when I have the time or just leave the photos up as many are contributed on the understanding they are available to everyone and I dont like letting the people who sent them down.

 

I have a half written update somewhere but health probs mean I never get to finish it, Ive been talking with a few people about doing something different with the site and hopefully that will come off in the not too distant future.

[Laurence Hogg]

I may well do that when I have the time or just leave the photos up as many are contributed on the understanding they are available to everyone and I dont like letting the people who sent them down.

 

I have a half written update somewhere but health probs mean I never get to finish it, Ive been talking with a few people about doing something different with the site and hopefully that will come off in the not too distant future.

 

Check this Andy, its brilliant: http://www.brdatabase.info/index.php

[AMModels]

That is the type of thing Id love to get it looking like, ideally a page for each boat which can contain all the available information on each one along with photos and copies of any certificates and the like. A true online free to access database which anyone can contribute to.