Petition on 38 degrees

[Alf Roberts]

A rather pointless comment if I may say so. Yes I am fully aware that he spent 1800 days at the top of Tardebigge however there were one of two mitigating factors, like we were at War (1939 - 45 if you need to look it up!). Perhaps enforcement may have been a little slack at the time . At least he actually did something to preserve the canals, unlike the johnny-come-lately's I referred to who just make a lot of noise!

you'll have evidence for that then? or simply an empty prejudice?

[jenlyn]

I am sorry i do not accept linking the government not being able to provide everyone who wants to live in central London with affordable housing and those people who can afford to buy a boat then say they cant afford a mooring, so therefore should be exempt from paying for one.

I personally have just been trying to get on and it has took me over 30 years, but i pay my way ....as you say not everyone who doesn't pay a mooring is a piss taker ... there are many genuine CCers.

Another point while i am at it, for some reason people only talk about London when talking about CMers where my views regarding CMers refer to anyone on the system, It isnt about how much room these boats take up, it is about people not paying for the waterways they are living on.

 

Rick

I think at the end of the day, there are many on the waterways who would help if they saw another boater in some sort of distress.

It's one of the reasons I decided to live as I do, and as it goes, I have found it to be exactly so. (Apart from the odd one or two like yourself).

The other thing is, even though you have expressed some extreme views, I know some would put that aside, and help you if it was needed.

Hmmmm.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

you'll have evidence for that then? or simply an empty prejudice?

No oddly enough I wasn't standing behind Mr Rolt and his friends whilst they were organising work parties, pressurising to re-open canals etc, I'm just assuming that it was true since that is what most of the written history says, but of course I'm sure you know better!

[bassplayer]

A rather pointless comment if I may say so. Yes I am fully aware that he spent 1800 days at the top of Tardebigge however there were one of two mitigating factors, like we were at War (1939 - 45 if you need to look it up!). Perhaps enforcement may have been a little slack at the time . At least he actually did something to preserve the canals, unlike the johnny-come-lately's I referred to who just make a lot of noise!

I'm not sure those who help(ed) renovate and preserve the canals intended them to be a playground for the rich either. I expect there are a lot of 'johnny-come-lately's' who'd love to get involved with preservation but are too busy paying our pensions.

[gaggle]

If you had quoted and taken the time to have read the complete exchange of posts rather than following those with no argument and just picking out bits you would see the context it was in and, it would all make perfect sense to you

 

 

Rick

yes I have now read the thread to the end and still don't understand why you feel the need to saY ,I was serving king and country and got injured blah blah blah , am I supposed to think you opinion has added gravitas , if your opinion is worth a carrot why bump it up with that crap.

[jenlyn]

No oddly enough I wasn't standing behind Mr Rolt and his friends whilst they were organising work parties, pressurising to re-open canals etc, I'm just assuming that it was true since that is what most of the written history says, but of course I'm sure you know better!

Erm, scuse me. You answered the wrong bit of his post.

Me thinks he was referring to the Johnny come lately bit.

Edited February 22, 2015 by jenlyn

[dccruiser]

I understand your gripe about people not paying their way but there is a difference between those who can't pay and those who won't pay. We all have bad luck in different ways but it's a good job there are nice people around us who are prepared to help us through the bad luck. To write people off just because they are trying to survive is heartless in my eyes. All we are doing by making boats move further away is move the real problem further away.

You are trying to tell me every CMer was on a fully paid up residential mooring but has since fell on hard times? I think not!

 

 

Rick

I think at the end of the day, there are many on the waterways who would help if they saw another boater in some sort of distress.

It's one of the reasons I decided to live as I do, and as it goes, I have found it to be exactly so. (Apart from the odd one or two like yourself).

The other thing is, even though you have expressed some extreme views, I know some would put that aside, and help you if it was needed.

Hmmmm.

You really do not know me, i would do anything to help anyone boater or not ....but that doesnt mean i have to accept someone who chooses to flaunt rules and wont pay their way.

 

Rick

[peterboat]

I think that the reason that people don't discuss overcrowding in cities is because, at the moment, that is not the problem. The example you give of Tokyo with about the same size as London but double the population emphasises the point, they haven't all died or gone mad, they just live in higher density. I've been to Hong Kong where the population density is even higher than Tokyo and the situation is the same. The problem with London is the lack of affordable housing. There are plenty of properties and an unnecessarily large percentage are empty because they have been bought up by Russian,Middle Eastern and other foreign nationals as a place to lodge huge quantities of money of dubious provenance. The government are happy with this situation since they get a kick-back in stamp duty whenever one of these obscenities is bought or sold.

 

The related problem with the canal system is that because they cannot find land based accomodation people are trying to move onto the water which is a limited resource. As has been repeatedly discussed before there is nothing that CRT can do to prevent people buying up a boat and moving it to London if they wish so ultimately the numbers will just keep on increasing. The end result will be a water-borne shanty town or favela (and before being accused of over dramatising consider that such things don't drop from the sky, they develop over time, and currently there is nothing CRT can do to stop it developing). As water overcrowding increases over time some will move off because the conditions have deteriorated and be replaced by others who are more willing to suffer the privations of such life.I'm sure at one time someone said "What is the problem with letting a friend or two live in my garden shed?" this has now developed into a considerable unregulated market of beds in sheds noticeably in certain Western Boroughs of London.

 

I don't know how CRT are going to stop this from happening, I just hope that they can.

Well said makes sense and my views too plus a greenie for you

 

Peter

[Alf Roberts]

You are trying to tell me every CMer was on a fully paid up residential mooring but has since fell on hard times? I think not!

 

 

Rick

the simple, repetitive mistake you are making, or myth you are trying to promulgate, is conflating boaters who boat in a small area with those who overstay or otherwise cause a problem.

 

there is absolutely and utterly no legal bar to a liveaboard boating within a small geographical area. I find your arrogant insistence that somehow this group of people should cease to exist extremely distasteful.

 

mind, it fits with my prejudices about people like you in the armed forces so maybe we're about equal.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

I'm not sure those who help(ed) renovate and preserve the canals intended them to be a playground for the rich either. I expect there are a lot of 'johnny-come-lately's' who'd love to get involved with preservation but are too busy paying our pensions.

There was a lot of arguement between them as to what they wanted the canals to become, Rolt saw them as commercial waterways so I don't suppose that he intended them to be playgrounds for the rich, neither did he see them as linear housing estates.

 

The causeof my irritation was the quote,"...The CRT bowing to the demands of the middle class/marina moored types that are boat owners these days. Where were they when the canals faced closure and the liveaboards fought tooth and nail to keep them open?....." Well as a working class boater I'm not out for defending the middle classes, but credit where credit is due, it was actually a bunch of middle class (Rolt and Co) who saved the canals, not a bunch of Johnny-come-lately's who decided to play the class card and then tried to claim credit for themselves with some adept re-writing of history.

Edited February 22, 2015 by Wanderer Vagabond

[jenlyn]

You are trying to tell me every CMer was on a fully paid up residential mooring but has since fell on hard times? I think not!

Rick

 

You really do not know me, i would do anything to help anyone boater or not ....but that doesnt mean i have to accept someone who chooses to flaunt rules and wont pay their way.

Rick

Well, to be honest, I can only go by your posts on here, and I'm not sure if I was in trouble, that I would want you giving me chapter and verse on your cv before helping me. Just saying...

[dccruiser]

yes I have now read the thread to the end and still don't understand why you feel the need to saY ,I was serving king and country and got injured blah blah blah , am I supposed to think you opinion has added gravitas , if your opinion is worth a carrot why bump it up with that crap.

I did not type it to add gravitas i was illustrating i know better than most what hard times are ....rather than voicing an i am alright jack opinion which is what i was accused of.

Incidentally if you think all of that is crap i wonder what you do every year on remembrance day

 

Rick

[Maffi]

remind me; how long did Tom Rolt spend moored in one spot at the top of Tardibigge?

 

That is absolutely not relevant.

[bassplayer]

You are trying to tell me every CMer was on a fully paid up residential mooring but has since fell on hard times? I think not!

Rick

Sorry, where did I say that? I'm sure some have never had a fully paid up residential mooring. Some may have fallen on hard times and had to sell up their home to buy a boat. Some have managed to find the cash for a cheap boat but can't afford to pay for a mooring until the've got a job. We at least agree that some take the piss but that's about it.

[dccruiser]

Well, to be honest, I can only go by your posts on here, and I'm not sure if I was in trouble, that I would want you giving me chapter and verse on your cv before helping me. Just saying...

i probably wouldnt get a word in for you trying to convince me i am wasting 2700 quid a year on a mooring i dont really need

 

Rick

[Alf Roberts]

 

That is absolutely not relevant.

I tend to agree. Neither was Wanderer Vagabond's blanket sneer that none of the petitioners were involved in the saving or restoration of the canals.

[jenlyn]

i probably wouldnt get a word in for you trying to convince me i am wasting 2700 quid a year on a mooring i dont really need

Rick

Hahaha. What makes you think I would want to convince you to give up your mooring. You come out with some absurd remarks lol.

I've no interest in how you boat.

Edited February 22, 2015 by jenlyn

[dccruiser]

Hahaha. What makes you think I would want to convince you to give up your mooring. You come out with some absurd remarks lol.

I've no interest in how you boat.

The same as makes you think i would reel off a cv ....... obviously!!!

 

Rick

[jenlyn]

The same as makes you think i would reel off a cv ....... obviously!!!

Rick

Wierd.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

I tend to agree. Neither was Wanderer Vagabond's blanket sneer that none of the petitioners were involved in the saving or restoration of the canals.

Your prejudices are showing I'm afraid. My original comment was that I was annoyed by some Johnny-come-lately trying to play some class card about how the middle classes hadn't done anything to preserve the canals with the quote, ".....The CRT bowing to the demands of the middle class/marina moored types that are boat owners these days. Where were they when the canals faced closure and the liveaboards fought tooth and nail to keep them open?....". You are clearly quite happy for people who have done good work on the canals (Rolt and Co) to be denigrated but heaven help anyone who criticises your favoured cohort. Of course if you wish to take it as an implication that I know who all of the petitioners were and am criticising each and every one of them for not being involved in restoration, that is your prerogative, it is just not backed up with any identifiable facts. It was the comment of one of the petitioners that irritated but of course that probably doesn't fit with your agenda, does it?

[bassplayer]

I was annoyed by some Johnny-come-lately trying to play some class card about how the middle classes hadn't done anything to preserve the canals...

Having seen the rudeness by some middle class boaters against live aboards at the MK CRT communication meeting, I can understand those prejudices. Regardless of class, if someone acts in a disrespectful way towards those who don't deserve it, they let everyone down. It's usually people who resent others being happy even though they aren't actually doing anyone any harm. Unfortunately it seems there will always be a war between the classes and it won't get resolved so long as there are piss takers.

[mango]

Having seen the rudeness by some middle class boaters against live aboards at the MK CRT communication meeting, I can understand those prejudices. Regardless of class, if someone acts in a disrespectful way towards those who don't deserve it, they let everyone down. It's usually people who resent others being happy even though they aren't actually doing anyone any harm. Unfortunately it seems there will always be a war between the classes and it won't get resolved so long as there are piss takers.

What about the rudeness on this forum? The worst example of rudeness to other contributors are moderated, but what about the comments about named CRT staff? In a recent discussion about Simon Salem, another member of staff was referred to as a moron.

[bassplayer]

What about the rudeness on this forum? The worst example of rudeness to other contributors are moderated, but what about the comments about named CRT staff? In a recent discussion about Simon Salem, another member of staff was referred to as a moron.

I agree that's wrong but people will get emotive when they feel let down badly. The question is why did they feel that way to make an attack? Why would someone make it up? At least people can defend an attack against someone here, but it's a bit harsh if the person being attacked doesn't read the forum.

[mango]

I agree that's wrong but people will get emotive when they feel let down badly. The question is why did they feel that way to make an attack? Why would someone make it up? At least people can defend an attack against someone here, but it's a bit harsh if the person being attacked doesn't read the forum.

It is possible to have a passionate argument without being rude to anyone. I can't say that I have read all your posts but I don't think of you as rude.

 

I don't mind if rude people are ignored by others and by CRT.

[Athy]

What about the rudeness on this forum? The worst example of rudeness to other contributors are moderated, but what about the comments about named CRT staff? In a recent discussion about Simon Salem, another member of staff was referred to as a moron.

That's hardly the most harrowing insult that could be meted out, is it? Anyway, perhaps the person in question is a moron, I don't know.

It is strange that, if a similar comment were made about almost any leading politician, few people would turn a hair.

 

I thought I had posted this already, but it was very early in the morning so I must have omitted to press "post"!