CANAL & RIVER TRUST OUTLINES POLICY FOR BOATERS WITHOUT A HOME MOORING

[junior]

It's the ducks I feel sorry for. They've probably got no idea all this is going on.

[Paul C]

It's the ducks I feel sorry for. They've probably got no idea all this is going on.

 

At least there's a temporary blip in the supply of pancakes, after yesterday's peak demand.

[Sir Nibble]

CRT could have just left things alone and the vast majority of us would be happy. That's what my view has been all along. Those who would be unhappy, if things had been left alone, are those who complained about CC'ers/CM'ers hogging VM's and not having to pay for a mooring. Unfortunately the current solution will make finding an official VM even harder to find now more boats will be on the move. There is a possibility some CM'ers will now pay for mooring but I doubt it will be many.

 

To start with I would like to see your source for "the vast majority would be happy".

 

I get so damned fed up with repeating this but here we go again. Once upon a time there was a canal where anywhere there was a decent 14 day mooring someone lived there. You would see rows of flower pots, sign with boats name and another saying "gone for water" to claim ownership of a scarce bit of built up bank. Sometimes the boats name was painted on the concrete. Fantastic spot with towpath screened by trees perfect for an overnight stop and Barbie, one boat there for 4 years. Idyllic spot with tree lined glad adjacent, lovely quiet place to stop, one boat there for 5 years. 48 hour moorings turned to residential use, no longer existing for cruising purposes. This situation is not evident at a snapshot just passing through sight, you had to have a permanent mooring in the area to notice it. Here's another point, everyone worries about poor impoverished liveaboards with kids in school. How about all the boats which are not liveaboard but simply weekend and holiday leisure use and use the same piece of towpath as a permanent mooring as if it were a marina with no effort to move at all "out of season". CCers, why on earth should you pay for a winter mooring when you can just use any place that takes your fancy for six months or so undisturbed? Gradually it got worse until the complaints became too loud to ignore. The situation is now greatly improved purely because BW/CaRT have decided to enforce, in the absence of this enforcement I have no doubt the situation would quickly revert. You experience is not the only experience, because it does not effect you does not mean it effects no one.

OK so everyone stops taking the piss and moves in a compliant way to a new 'place' every 14 days. In a progressive fashion, 'bone fide' as it were. There will still be the same number of boats on the system, popular places will still be popular, what has been achieved?

What has been achieved is that the same number of boats are spread about bona fide navigating. Take a slice of bread and put a massive pat of butter in one corner, now most of that bread is bland except one bit that's sickly. Now take a knife and spread the butter across the bread. See the difference? Supposing 25% of all registered vehicles in the country decided to park in your home town, You don't think that is a problem? Still the same number of vehicles so what would be achieved by making them move?

[mango]

What of the Association of Continuous Cruisers? According to narrowboatworld (apologies but I can'f find a more reliable source of information) "ACC are pleased to see that CaRT are improving communications to make boaters aware at an early stage of any possible infringement." Jenlyn has recently made it obvious that he/she does not have much time for CRT's plans for Continuous Cruisers.

 

I'm pleased that Jenlyn finds my contributions amusing, but I would be grateful for clarification of whether or not posts are representative of the view of ACC. I hope that the ACC is the Association of Complaint Continuous Cruisers, which is what we need, and what is likely to be listened to by CRT.

[MtB]

 

Got a home mooring? Bridge hop where you want, that's the law.

 

 

Thank you for your encouragement. I sometimes wonder if I'm going to be the test case.

 

I like to bridge hop on the southern Oxford. I have a home mooring at Cropredy which I use perhaps four months of the year.

 

Perfect target I reckon. I seem to contravene the new T&Cs whilst complying with the law. I await developments with interest.

 

 

MtB

[Sabcat]

 

 

Thank you for your encouragement. I sometimes wonder if I'm going to be the test case.

 

I like to bridge hop on the southern Oxford. I have a home mooring at Cropredy which I use perhaps four months of the year.

 

Perfect target I reckon. I seem to contravene the new T&Cs whilst complying with the law. I await developments with interest.

 

 

MtB

 

Perfectly legitimate behaviour which I don't imagine is negatively impacting anyone.

[MtB]

 

Perfectly legitimate behaviour which I don't imagine is negatively impacting anyone.

 

 

Indeed. And vaguely wondering if I'll need to have this clarified this in court, when CRT decide I'm contravening the T&Cs...

 

Another layer of confusion might occur when next year, I get a Gold Licence!

 

 

 

MtB

[bassplayer]

 

Once upon a time there was a canal where anywhere there was a decent 14 day mooring someone lived there.

Can I see your source for this?

[Paul C]

Can I see your source for this?

 

Perhaps thats part of your perception of these wider issues - you don't know what it WAS like. You're kinda new to this boating lifestyle but other have done it for decades, are deeply involved in it, their lifestyles have become deeply intertwined with the various demands and restrictions boating brings with it. I believe you're quite new to the waterways, I remember not so long ago you came onto the forum. Now of course, I still respect your opinion and it still has validity, but others have much more experience of the waterways (including me, by the way, whom you have made somewhat personal posts on, asking where I am located and suchlike) and I think you need to recognise that.

[cotswoldsman]

What of the Association of Continuous Cruisers? According to narrowboatworld (apologies but I can'f find a more reliable source of information) "ACC are pleased to see that CaRT are improving communications to make boaters aware at an early stage of any possible infringement." Jenlyn has recently made it obvious that he/she does not have much time for CRT's plans for Continuous Cruisers.

 

I'm pleased that Jenlyn finds my contributions amusing, but I would be grateful for clarification of whether or not posts are representative of the view of ACC. I hope that the ACC is the Association of Complaint Continuous Cruisers, which is what we need, and what is likely to be listened to by CRT.

 

I can see nothing wrong with that statement. Surely the sooner a boater knows that they are not complying the sooner they can try and change their pattern of cruising. In the past the first indication was a Patrol Notice known as a pre CC1.

As far as I am aware ACC asks all its members to comply with The Acts of Parliament.

[mango]

 

I can see nothing wrong with that statement. Surely the sooner a boater knows that they are not complying the sooner they can try and change their pattern of cruising. In the past the first indication was a Patrol Notice known as a pre CC1.

As far as I am aware ACC asks all its members to comply with The Acts of Parliament.

My quotation was in context of the recent guidance published by CRT, not old Acts of Parliament. Does ACC support this or not?

[cotswoldsman]

My quotation was in context of the recent guidance published by CRT, not old Acts of Parliament. Does ACC support this or not?

 

I am simply a member so only speak for myself not for ACC. When I speak to other CCer I advice them to follow the Acts of Parliament as that is the law. I personally think the new T&C are a step to far in many respects.

[Paul C]

 

I am simply a member so only speak for myself not for ACC. When I speak to other CCer I advice them to follow the Acts of Parliament as that is the law. I personally think the new T&C are a step to far in many respects.

 

Who actually speaks for ACC then?

[bassplayer]

 

Perhaps thats part of your perception of these wider issues - you don't know what it WAS like. You're kinda new to this boating lifestyle but other have done it for decades, are deeply involved in it, their lifestyles have become deeply intertwined with the various demands and restrictions boating brings with it. I believe you're quite new to the waterways, I remember not so long ago you came onto the forum. Now of course, I still respect your opinion and it still has validity, but others have much more experience of the waterways (including me, by the way, whom you have made somewhat personal posts on, asking where I am located and suchlike) and I think you need to recognise that.

Wrong! (my first boat on the GU in 1979). Your subtle attempt to undermine my views speaks volumes...I think you need to recognise that.

[cotswoldsman]

Wrong! (my first boat on the GU in 1979). Your subtle attempt to undermine my views speaks volumes...I think you need to recognise that.

 

Well he is wide of the mark in most of his posts so at least he is consistent

[MtB]

 

Who actually speaks for ACC then?

 

I've never noticed them say anything...

[KenK]

Wrong! (my first boat on the GU in 1979). Your subtle attempt to undermine my views speaks volumes...I think you need to recognise that.

Obviously everyone's views have equal importance however local knowledge also needs to be taken into account. Sir Nibble is talking about the Western end of the K&A which had all of the problems he mentioned and more before BW finally started to do something about it. I think my favourite was the boater who built himself a garden shed across the towpath next to his boat forcing users of the towpath to squeeze between it and the hedge. It didn't stay there long but it does give you an idea of the mind-set which existed.

 

Ken

[bassplayer]

Obviously everyone's views have equal importance however local knowledge also needs to be taken into account. Sir Nibble is talking about the Western end of the K&A which had all of the problems he mentioned and more before BW finally started to do something about it. I think my favourite was the boater who built himself a garden shed across the towpath next to his boat forcing users of the towpath to squeeze between it and the hedge. It didn't stay there long but it does give you an idea of the mind-set which existed.

 

Ken

You also get a bigger picture if you move around the country. If one spends most of their time on the same mooring (or don't use the system at all) they are less likely to see a true picture.

 

What worries me is CRT being influenced by people who only bring their boats out of a marina a few times a year and expect to moor where they want. Unfortunately I think some may be in for a shock this year, but I could be wrong...and for my sake, I hope I am.

[PaulG]

What worries me is CRT being influenced by people who only bring their boats out of a marina a few times a year and expect to moor where they want.

Of course they should be able to expect to moor where they want, within reason.

That's why CRT have time limits at the popular mooring places - to give everyone a fair crack of the whip.

And, from what I've seen here and other canal-related websites, "people who only bring their boats out of a marina a few times a year" seem to just about the least vocal on this subject.

They don't form themselves into special interest groups like the ACC, NBTA, KANDA etc.

[madcat]

They might join one of these organisations and one I know very well is utterly mystified by the level of vitriol directed at liveaboard boaters . Having a home mooring because it suits you to do so does not make you a better person .

[cuthound]

They might join one of these organisations and one I know very well is utterly mystified by the level of vitriol directed at liveaboard boaters . Having a home mooring because it suits you to do so does not make you a better person .

Nor does it make you a worse one. Only when the various boating interests unite to persuade CRT to change will CRT take any notice. They simply do not react to minority groups - divide & rule.

 

What is really needed is fewer, preferably one boating interest group representing more than 50% of licence holders. Then CRT would have to listen.

 

Edited to add the second paragraph.

Edited February 19, 2015 by cuthound

[MtB]

They might join one of these organisations and one I know very well is utterly mystified by the level of vitriol directed at liveaboard boaters . Having a home mooring because it suits you to do so does not make you a better person .

 

 

This puzzles me. I never see any vitriol against liveaboards.

 

People often take me for a liveaboard and I never get vitriol. Can you give an example please?

 

Thanks

[bassplayer]

Nor does it make you a worse one. Only when the various boating interests unite to persuade CRT to change will CR T take nay notice. They simply do not react to minority groups - divide & rule.

Indeed influence comes in many forms...not just formal meetings with CRT. Partners and friends of powerful people have influence. Lots of things get agreed one to one over a pint...or in a room somewhere...

[Paul C]

You also get a bigger picture if you move around the country. If one spends most of their time on the same mooring (or don't use the system at all) they are less likely to see a true picture.

 

What worries me is CRT being influenced by people who only bring their boats out of a marina a few times a year and expect to moor where they want. Unfortunately I think some may be in for a shock this year, but I could be wrong...and for my sake, I hope I am.

 

What worries me is that you've chosen a particular boating lifestyle, but are unwilling to accept (the views of) others have chosen a slightly different way of using their boats. That is as prejudiced as the boating organisation (or more accurately, a member of it/claiming to represent it) in post #370.

[bassplayer]

 

What worries me is that you've chosen a particular boating lifestyle, but are unwilling to accept (the views of) others have chosen a slightly different way of using their boats. That is as prejudiced as the boating organisation (or more accurately, a member of it/claiming to represent it) in post #370.

Wrong again! My view has always been...leave things alone. I do accept the views of everyone but I don't always agree with them. It makes for an interesting debate. I certainly don't think creating more CC'ers from CM'ers will help any of us find an official VM and I don't think it will generate more revenue for CRT either.

 

I think you said a while back that you didn't have an agenda, you just wanted to enjoy boating like the rest of us. However you seem to have a problem, what is it? What is your view point? How does this affect you?