Yarwood maker's plate

[RLWP]

Fittie's plate:

 

 

Richard

Edited January 5, 2015 by RLWP

[Laurence Hogg]

That's spot on, exactly like the one we had as a pattern.

[pete harrison]

Lancing's has the yard number and the year

The actual completion / handover date was 22 July 1936 according to both W.J. Yarwood & Sons Ltd. and Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd. records

[Timleech]

Period photographs suggest the Yarwood builders plates on the two pairs of 'Admirals' were about 5'' by 3'', and as you say were fitted to the rear cabin bulkhead. I am sure the Yarwood builders plates fitted to G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. boats were a little smaller. The Pimblott built 'Admirals' had a builders plate in a similar location, but these were a little larger and oval in shape - and again featured the relevant 'Yard Number' under which the boat was built.

 

I am mystified by the oval Harland & Wolff Ltd. plates (as you found in THEMIS) as I have never seen one in a period photograph, and they are very rarely seen now

 

 

The THEMIS was, allegedly, the very first composite Small Woolwich motor, maybe it or the first few boats had them fitted to 'show off', & they didn't bother after a while?

 

I have no reason to suppose that the plate on the VENUS was not original.

 

Tim

[pete harrison]

 

 

The THEMIS was, allegedly, the very first composite Small Woolwich motor, maybe it or the first few boats had them fitted to 'show off', & they didn't bother after a while?

 

I have no reason to suppose that the plate on the VENUS was not original.

 

Tim

HYPERION and HYADES were the first to be delivered on 15 May 1935, with THEMIS and TITANIA delivered 3 days later. THEMIS and TITANIA usually appear first in period documents of both Harland & Wolff Ltd. and the Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd., and this pair also have the lowest Harland & Wolff Ltd. 'Yard Numbers' of the iron composite small Woolwich's - followed directly by HYPERION and HYADES .

[Laurence Hogg]

Here we have two photographs taken at the same time showing "Hyperion" being launched and "Themis" being craned onto the launch trolley. Neither shows any sign of a builders plate.

 

 

[Timleech]

Here we have two photographs taken at the same time showing "Hyperion" being launched and "Themis" being craned onto the launch trolley. Neither shows any sign of a builders plate.

 

 

 

Indeed, but it's only a question of two bolts to fit them, could easily have been done after launching.

 

This one of the THEMIS' launch shows it as more complete, with chimney, funnel, cratch more complete etc., as though they were trying to show that it was ready to go off immediately to fetch a load.

 

 

Tim

Edited January 5, 2015 by Timleech

[Paul H]

Thats because (as I said previously) because the plates were probably originally fixed on the bulkhead at the front of the hold and would be hidden under the cratch.

Paul

[madcat]

Possibly x 2 but not if they are too expensive .

 

GU style cast brackets for the bevel gears on the gear control maybe?

[Mick Poyser]

As this topic is supposed to be about Yarwood plates I'm going to go off topic by talking about H & W plates on my very first post.

 

Cassiopeia has her original back end bulkhead and just below the rail is an oval area of very deep corrosion which is the exact size of the Fuller replacement plate. The corrosion is not central (of set by about 2") so the original plate was very crudely fitted. In fact I could not fit the Fuller Plate in the same place (it just looked wrong) so some corrosion is still visible.

 

Both Jim and Eddy Hambridge tell me they cannot remember a plate, so it had probable fell of before the early 1950s. In fact looking at the depth of pits in the bulkhead it probable went with a large bang.

 

 

[Derek R.]

. . at Stretton Aquaduct (Nr. Brewood)

 

 

I like that. I think I might know where that is now.

 

Welcome Mick. I wouldn't consider your comment as off topic - I think we are talking plates in general, though perhaps more specifically GU boat plates, but it's a broad subject.

 

PS

 

I do wonder if such plates were fitted if time and circumstances allowed. They were a trade mark, but when pressed to build fast such plates might well have been the last - and possibly forgotten additions.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Derek R.

[Timleech]

Another factor which might explain the scarcity of these H&W plates is the fact that the front bulkheads were altered after building.

The original design allowed for engines to be removed for major overhaul through the bulkhead, the bolted panels can clearly be seen in the launch photos of THEMIS and HYPERION.

It was found in service that lifting through the roof was more practical (Imagine removing a blown engine through the bulkhead of a fully loaded boat), and I believe that the bulkheads were rivetted closed.

I don't know any detail of how this was done, or whether all the Small Woolwich motor boats left the builders with bolted bulkhead panels, but it is quite conceivable that builders plates got lost somewhere during the changes.

 

Tim

[Derek R.]

Certainly TYCHO had bolted lower sections to the forward bulkhead, and I'm also reliably told it was for engine replacements - Russel Newbury 2DM would come out that way, though the Petter replacement certainly wouldn't! Off with it's top. Still bolts in the bulkhead though.

[fittie]

There is a good image which, I believe, shows the makers plate on the engine room bulkhead.

http://www.associatedcanalcarriers.co.uk/wordpress/

 

 

ps Thanks for posting the image of my plate

Edited January 6, 2015 by fittie

[RLWP]

No problem.

 

 

Richard

[fittie]

Thanks Richard, that's the one!

[RLWP]

That cabin looks really short!

 

Richard

[fittie]

The engine room looks huge, well long.

[RLWP]

It was the height of the sides that looks odd to me

 

I don't think I have seen that hinged tiller before either

 

All this does is tell you how little I know about these boats

 

Richard

[IanM]

It was the height of the sides that looks odd to me

 

I don't think I have seen that hinged tiller before either

 

All this does is tell you how little I know about these boats

 

Richard

 

Because the hull sides are so deep the cabin doesn't need to be as high.

 

[Mick Poyser]

Can somebody tell me how you do the cutting and pasting bit when you want to highlight what somebody else has said so you can comment on it?

 

I don't think the photos of Hyperion and Themis are showing engine removal panels, I think what you see is the two rows of rivets fixing the bulkhead to the internal framing. The engine removal panel only extends a few inches above the gunnel. Cassiopeia's panel is riveted in not bolted, therefore, I think it's a GU fitter's thing not original design. Stage one how the f--- do we get the engine out. Stage two why are we riveting these panel back when we could bolt them. The roof off job came later when BTW had their engine replacement program.

 

Going back to the builders plates they may have beed suppled loose with other bits such as engine spares & spanners etc (in them days new engines came with spares & spanners) and it may have been up to the GU fitter doing final adjustments etc, of where and how or if they where fitted on to the craft.

 

I can also see the H&W stores-man when requesting a re-order of the plates being told they're to expensive, no more. I do believe they were only fitted to Iron craft.

[RLWP]

First off, use the Quote button to put their text into your post. Now you have some options. You could highlight the bit of text you want to highlight and change the text colour, or you could delete the bits you don't want. Be careful not to delete the header and fitter though as everything goes weird

 

Simplest option is to copy and paste the bit you want and put quote marks at each end

 

Does that help?

 

Richard

[Timleech]

Can somebody tell me how you do the cutting and pasting bit when you want to highlight what somebody else has said so you can comment on it?

 

I don't think the photos of Hyperion and Themis are showing engine removal panels, I think what you see is the two rows of rivets fixing the bulkhead to the internal framing. The engine removal panel only extends a few inches above the gunnel. Cassiopeia's panel is riveted in not bolted, therefore, I think it's a GU fitter's thing not original design. Stage one how the f--- do we get the engine out. Stage two why are we riveting these panel back when we could bolt them. The roof off job came later when BTW had their engine replacement program.

 

Going back to the builders plates they may have beed suppled loose with other bits such as engine spares & spanners etc (in them days new engines came with spares & spanners) and it may have been up to the GU fitter doing final adjustments etc, of where and how or if they where fitted on to the craft.

 

I can also see the H&W stores-man when requesting a re-order of the plates being told they're to expensive, no more. I do believe they were only fitted to Iron craft.

 

I have read/been told more than once that a removable panel was part of the original design, it would be logical if it were, but that doesn't mean it's true and I don't know the details.

Impossible to be sure from the pic I scanned, but those 'rivets' look too prominent to me.

 

 

Looking at a Small Woolwich which is here at present, the front bulkhead has been chopped around too many times to establish anything except that the National would not come out through just the lower part of the bulkhead, without stripping parts from the top of the engine first.

 

Tim

[Derek R.]

I know there are subtle differences between Woolwich and Northwich builds, but TYCHO's forward engine room bulkhead is pretty original. The Bolts do go all the way from bottom to top, but in the main are holding the internal angle in place. The removable section stops short half way between gunnel and cabin top.

 

 

[fittie]

Can somebody tell me how you do the cutting and pasting bit when you want to highlight what somebody else has said so you can comment on it?

 

I don't think the photos of Hyperion and Themis are showing engine removal panels, I think what you see is the two rows of rivets fixing the bulkhead to the internal framing. The engine removal panel only extends a few inches above the gunnel. Cassiopeia's panel is riveted in not bolted, therefore, I think it's a GU fitter's thing not original design. Stage one how the f--- do we get the engine out. Stage two why are we riveting these panel back when we could bolt them. The roof off job came later when BTW had their engine replacement program.

 

Going back to the builders plates they may have beed suppled loose with other bits such as engine spares & spanners etc (in them days new engines came with spares & spanners) and it may have been up to the GU fitter doing final adjustments etc, of where and how or if they where fitted on to the craft.

 

I can also see the H&W stores-man when requesting a re-order of the plates being told they're to expensive, no more. I do believe they were only fitted to Iron craft.

Venus was wooden and she did have a makers plate.