dead bmc engine

[charlie l]

Please Help !!!! Last Sept. my bmc engine died. The "experts" removed the engine, have had it since then, with a big lump of my money in order to rebuild it, which they are supposed to have done. It's not back in the boat yet, as it's still not working. They say that the problem is getting the fuel through. If it was a land vehicle they'd get it going by push starting it or something - I'm no mechanic! - so I don't know whether this is just flannel from them, or whether it is really a problem. Does anyone out there know? Chas

[Keeping Up]

Sounds to me like a load of bullsh*t wrapped up in thick flannel

[David Schweizer]

It's not rocket science, and I would be getting very suspicious. A proper re-build would include a new lift pump, together with the injectors and injection pump being serviced (professionaly). The fuel filter head should also be cleaned and a new filter fitted. There is nothing else that would prevent the fuel from getting into the combustion chamber, apart from blocked fuel pipes and that is easy to remedy by replacing them (they are not expensive)

 

The story about bump starting it if it was in a road vehicle is rubbish. The lift pump and injection pump are both operated when the engine is cranked, and it is easy to check each stage of the fuel delivery. I am afraid that they are either not very competent or may be winding you up.

 

How much are they charging for this re-build?

[John Orentas]

They are telling you 'The three bears'. You need to take a tough line with them, begin litigation it is unlikely anyting else will work at this stage.

[Tony Brooks]

They are telling you 'The three bears'. You need to take a tough line with them, begin litigation it is unlikely anyting else will work at this stage.

 

 

Absolutely - its not even in the boat so it's nothing to do with the tank or pipework.

 

They could/should be using a small high level tank to supply fuel by gravity so unless the lift pump is totally gummed up there is no reason for it not to work - assuming they have put it back together correctly. If they have the two pipes between the filter head and lift pump wrong then they would be trying to get fuel past a non-return valve in the wrong direction.

 

Even if the lift pump was clagged up the tank should then have been connected to the filter inlet so gravity supplied the injector pump's transfer pump.

 

Also talk to your local Consumer Protection Department (Trading Standards as was).

 

I am fed up with hearing from people who are being conned by so called experts - name names so others can avoid them.

 

Tony Brooks

[John Orentas]

Very much off topic, but a chap was telling me in the pub last night. A friend of his went to the theatre, not sure what town but he couldn't find a parking space anywhere, he noticed a garage across the road, a mechanic was at work inside, he asked the chap if he could park on his forecourt for the evening the mechanic said that was OK 'just give me a couple of quid when you get back, I will still be here'.

 

The play was rubbish and he and his wife decided to go home at half time, or should that be the interval, arriving back at the garage his car had gone! There was however a light shining between the double sliding doors of the workshop, putting his eye up to the gap he could plainly see his car inside and a group of chaps around it, they were taking the engine out.

 

He got the police to turn out and all was eventually sorted, close shave though. I suppose the other scenario is that he would have driven his car home leaving a trail of smoke and oil.

 

Being the suspicious dog that I am, I'm always a bit dubious about these stories, anyone heard it before?

[charlie l]

It's not rocket science, and I would be getting very suspicious. A proper re-build would include a new lift pump, together with the injectors and injection pump being serviced (professionaly). The fuel filter head should also be cleaned and a new filter fitted. There is nothing else that would prevent the fuel from getting into the combustion chamber, apart from blocked fuel pipes and that is easy to remedy by replacing them (they are not expensive)

 

The story about bump starting it if it was in a road vehicle is rubbish. The lift pump and injection pump are both operated when the engine is cranked, and it is easy to check each stage of the fuel delivery. I am afraid that they are either not very competent or may be winding you up.

 

How much are they charging for this re-build?

 

Appreciate your reply - at least i've got a bit of ammunition now. It's cost me £1000 so far. Chas

[Liam]

£1000!

[charlie l]

Absolutely - its not even in the boat so it's nothing to do with the tank or pipework.

 

They could/should be using a small high level tank to supply fuel by gravity so unless the lift pump is totally gummed up there is no reason for it not to work - assuming they have put it back together correctly. If they have the two pipes between the filter head and lift pump wrong then they would be trying to get fuel past a non-return valve in the wrong direction.

 

Even if the lift pump was clagged up the tank should then have been connected to the filter inlet so gravity supplied the injector pump's transfer pump.

 

Also talk to your local Consumer Protection Department (Trading Standards as was).

 

I am fed up with hearing from people who are being conned by so called experts - name names so others can avoid them.

 

Tony Brooks

 

Thanks for reply. I'll attempt to discuss it with them now that I've got some facts to present maybe they have got a scruple hidden somewhere. Will let you know how I get on. Again, Many thanks. Chas

[Tony Brooks]

Absolutely - its not even in the boat so it's nothing to do with the tank or pipework.

 

They could/should be using a small high level tank to supply fuel by gravity so unless the lift pump is totally gummed up there is no reason for it not to work - assuming they have put it back together correctly. If they have the two pipes between the filter head and lift pump wrong then they would be trying to get fuel past a non-return valve in the wrong direction.

 

Even if the lift pump was clagged up the tank should then have been connected to the filter inlet so gravity supplied the injector pump's transfer pump.

 

Also talk to your local Consumer Protection Department (Trading Standards as was).

 

I am fed up with hearing from people who are being conned by so called experts - name names so others can avoid them.

 

Tony Brooks

 

 

I've just had another thought.

 

If they refitted the lift pump with the cam shaft lever on the wrong side of the shaft not only will it not pump, but the pump will now be knackered. This is fairly easy to do if you are unaware, but only a clot would pull the pump up to the block with the nuts with the force needed to seat the pump with the lever misplaced.

 

Tony Brooks

[David]

Hi

Another easy mistake is to get the fuel stop valve reversed so instead of pushing for off it is now pull it will work fine in either orientation but can take some sussing out if trying to start after a major refit of the fuel system when trying to get fuel bled through etc.

A £1000 for a none runner is steep, for that money you can get a decent running BMC.

david

[David Schweizer]

Appreciate your reply - at least i've got a bit of ammunition now. It's cost me £1000 so far. Chas

I am afraid you are not getting what I would call a re-build for £1000. I had my engine and gearbox re-built last year, it cost £3100 and that was a very good deal. The normal price, including reinstalling, is usually between £4000 and £5000.

[David]

This looks cheaper

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MARINE-DIESEL-ENGINE...1QQcmdZViewItem

[charlie l]

I am afraid you are not getting what I would call a re-build for £1000. I had my engine and gearbox re-built last year, it cost £3100 and that was a very good deal. The normal price, including reinstalling, is usually between £4000 and £5000.

 

Hi,Thanks for your message.I expect it to be a good deal more than £1000, that's what I've paid so far. Your figures certainly have given me a good idea of what's a fair price. Chas

[magnetman]

edited because the price of new engines ain't the point. (Note to self: Engage brain before activating typing fingers)

Edited February 8, 2007 by magnetman

[Yamanx]

3-4k sounds blimin expensive to me, I'd want an absolute top of the range job for that sort of money, liners, rings, shells etc.

 

If the company has taken 1k and they dont know whats wrong with the engine, I'd be camped on their front door step. Why are you paying them anything at all until the jobs done?

[Tony Brooks]

This looks cheaper

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MARINE-DIESEL-ENGINE...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

 

Only if you know what you are getting.

 

The rocker cover looks a bit odd to me and BMCs do not have timing belts as far as I know, so what was renewed.

 

Tony Brooks

[magnetman]

Only if you know what you are getting.

 

The rocker cover looks a bit odd to me and BMCs do not have timing belts as far as I know, so what was renewed.

 

Tony Brooks

 

as far as I'm concerned that engine is a 're-CON', must be, it's got some new paint on it...

[Tony Brooks]

as far as I'm concerned that engine is a 're-CON', must be, it's got some new paint on it...

 

 

And the injector pump looks like a rotary rather than a DPA. At 60hp I doubt its a 1.8, but might be a 2.5. Not a good swap for a 1.5.

 

I think its an ex-vehicle Fred in a shed marinsiation.

 

Tony Brooks

[Supermalc]

That engine could??? be a 2.2 BMC 'Captain' engine. Very old, but can still get parts. Doubt it's been more than titivated up. A friend has one in his boat. It had reconditioned injectors, and heater plugs year before last.

 

With the gearbox it must be worth £350. You'll probably have to strip it and rebuild though. Even doing it yourself I'd put £1000 aside. Pistons £100 each, if you can find any. Big end and main shells are about £50. Say £250 for machineing, crank reground, block bored, head planed and valve seats cut. Renonditioned injection pump £350 to £500. Injectors £25 each. Timing chain, gaskets, valves.

 

As a new engine is about £15,000 that's the price you must set it agains. That's without fitting costs of course.

 

Expensive job, this boating.

 

I've just put new big end shells in my YSE12. Single so just 2 shells....about £38.

[magnetman]

That engine could??? be a 2.2 BMC 'Captain' engine. Very old, but can still get parts. Doubt it's been more than titivated up. A friend has one in his boat. It had reconditioned injectors, and heater plugs year before last.

 

As a new engine is about £15,000 that's the price you must set it agains. That's without fitting costs of course.

 

Expensive job, this boating.

 

I've just put new big end shells in my YSE12. Single so just 2 shells....about £38.

 

I think (not 100% sure) that the BMC 'CAPTAIN' is a 1.5 litre 3 bearing unit, the 2.2 and 2.5 were known as the BMC 'commander' and I find the £15,000 level for a new engine somewhat unlikely.

I recently helped fit a brand new boxed crated beta marine 2.2 with PRM box and big silencer into a boat. It was around £5,700 delivered to the boat. Shire are around the same price and they are good units, based on a Yanmar engine.

[Supermalc]

Yes, think you're right....forgotten about Captain and Commander Still not a bad buy though if you get it under £350 with hydraulic box. If it's rotary pump it is 1500.

 

I just looked on the Yanmar site. May have got the wrong sized engine, but started at £15,000

 

I'm out of it now, so just guesswork But from a quick search new pistons are about £100 and set of shells about £50

 

I only paid £5500 for my house.......ok in 1979, but?????? my boat's almost worth that now

 

I've always worked out £s worth in how many gallons of petrol you can buy with your gross wage.

 

When earning 20quid a week I could buy 60 gallons. Same job today, say £270 a week which is ???? gallons.

[magnetman]

We've got a new captain around here (he's written in blue) so we'd better not argue too much cos he's in cahoots with the commander...

 

I wasn't trying to be rude I was being pedantic and a bit factual.

 

 

60 gallons for £20!!!

[Supermalc]

http://www.marine-power.co.uk/catalog/prod...products_id=137

 

I just had a quick look at the next sized engines......this is similar I suppose.

 

As a 'rule of thumb' you can recondition for about half the price of a new one.

 

Small petrol is around £1000 to £1500 less fitting and ancilliaries.

 

I wasn't trying to be rude I was being pedantic and a bit factual.

 

 

60 gallons for £20!!!

 

I know you weren't.....don't mind being corrected at all

 

Petrol was 6shillings and 8pence, which became 35new pence a gallon, or 3 for a pound. Say a fiver a gallon today, 5 x 6 = 30......300quid a week, about average........nothing changes.

[alan_fincher]

Well you can still buy one of the brand new Turkish built BMC 1.8s marinised by Calcutt boats, of course. Depending on gearbox option, they are around £4.5K including VAT, I think. Obviously having one fitted could increase that significantly. (They do reconditioned 1.5s and 1.8s too, although I've heard differing opinions on these, I must admit...)

 

Our local marina engineer is no great fan of BMCs, but then why would he be, as he is an authorised Beta distributor

 

In a throwaway conversation, he indicated that to completely strip out an existing engine, renovate the engine space, then fully install and commission a suitable Beta was in the £7k to £8k range. (Sorry I don't know for exactly which engine that was).

 

I'm sure you can get it cheaper, but I think our BMC will be staying put for a while!

 

But back on topic, to the the original posters problems..... I also think the explanations offered by the repairers sound fairly worrying.

 

What you didn't say though originally, I think, is what it was believed to have "died" from in the first place ? Is the fuel issue what is thought to have been the main problem throughout ? Or did it instead have some kind of much more catastrophic failure in the first place, allegedly now dealt with, but now they are claiming the fuel issue as a further complication ?