Tri Rated Cable...Red or Black?

[NorthwichTrader]

Is there a right or wrong way re cable colour?

 

Also, I've seen this wire on eBay at £35 for 50mtrs of 6mm2...is the conductor multi-stranded, can anyone tell from the below description?

Many thanks,

Stuart

 

"Application: Tri-rated Cable is a high temperature, flame retardant cable designed for use in the switch control, relay and instrumentation panels of power switchgear and for purposes such as internal connectors in rectifier equipment, motor starters and controllers. Perfect for use on golf trolleys and amateur radio units. Tri-rated Cable is sometimes referred to as BS6231 Cable, H07V2-K or Panel Wire.

 

Standards: BS6231 Type CK

 

Conductor: Class 5 flexible plain copper conductors to BS EN 60228:2005 (previously BS6360)

 

Insulation: PVC (Polyvinyl Chloride) - RED OR BLACK

 

Voltage Rating: BS6231: 600/1000V, UL, CSA: 600V."

 

 

Oh, just one more thing...to ferrule or not to ferrule? Tony Brooks talks about the strands splaying out for better contact??

Edited October 12, 2014 by NorthwichTrader

[nicknorman]

Red for +ve DC, black for -ve DC, brown for live mains, blue for neutral mains, green/yellow for earth.

 

Not sure about then stranding but why not ask the seller?

 

You should use ferrules with stranded cable and screw terminals. Presuming you intend to build in accordance with the RCD, your electrical installation should meet the relevant ISOs 10133 and 13297.

Edited October 12, 2014 by nicknorman

[Alan de Enfield]

Tri-Rated cable is 'nothing special' the Tri rating purley means that it has been tested and approved for use by :

 

British Standards (BS6231)

UL - Underwriters Laboratories of the USA

CSA - Canadian Standards Authority

 

You are payng a premium for a marketing ploy (and for something you do not need)

 

It is stranded (actually 84 strands each of 0.3mm diameter - shown as 84/0.30)

 

You can buy it much cheaper at your local electrical factors (Edmunsons, City Electrical etc etc) but just buy "Single core cable to BS6231"

 

BS6231 cable is rated at 600 volt - you actually only need , "2491x" cable which is 240 volt rated.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[Keith M]

I have that tri-rated cable is offer cheaper than automotive cable which can be found in chandlers

 

All cables must have some type of terminal fitted

 

Keith

[NorthwichTrader]

All cables must have some type of terminal fitted

 

Keith

Many thanks, Keith!

Do you know what's the best approach for joining bare ends? Those screw-in 'chocolate bar' type blocks? Crimped-on push connectors?

What's the most professional approach/job in the absence of soldering and heat-shrinking?

Many thanks,

Stuart

[Alf Roberts]

Bootlaces ferrules followed by helacon. Chocolate block has no place in marine electrics.

If it's two connectors butted a butt crimp is fine.

 

What have you got against shrink fit?

[nicknorman]

Many thanks, Keith!

Do you know what's the best approach for joining bare ends? Those screw-in 'chocolate bar' type blocks? Crimped-on push connectors?

What's the most professional approach/job in the absence of soldering and heat-shrinking?

Many thanks,

Stuart

Soldering is considered a bad idea because it leaves the copper strands just outside the solder joint rather brittle and prone to fracture. In a reasonably low vibration environment it would probably be OK provided you have a horse tied up outside and are wearing a Stetson at the time.

 

Choc bloc connectors - well might be OK but you should put ferrules on the cable ends to avoid cutting the strands with the screw terminals (and to comply with the ISOs). Choc blocs tend to be not very corrosion resistant long term, so I would subsequently encase in heatshrink or tape. Probably still need your horse and hat though

 

Best way is to use a connecting (butt) crimp - ie a tube that is crimped onto the wires at each end. No point in using bullet connectors as it just introduces another connection, unless you want to preserve the ability to disconnect easily. Make sure you use a proper ratchet crimp tool.

[smileypete]

Hey Stuart,

 

To help search for useful info on electrics, I made a list of search keywords for someone in this topic:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=70777#entry1417356

 

It's perfectly fine to ask again but sometimes past topics have a bit more discussion and detail in them.

 

However the search is not much good small words of three or less letters, and google search is better, eg:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site%3Acanalworld.net+%22bus+bar%22

 

Also if you really want to read my past ramblings, just add 'smpt' so do a forum search on say, 'smpt bootlace ferrules'

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited October 14, 2014 by smileypete

[David Schweizer]

Red for +ve DC, black for -ve DC, brown for live mains, blue for neutral mains, green/yellow for earth.

 

Not sure about then stranding but why not ask the seller?

 

You should use ferrules with stranded cable and screw terminals. Presuming you intend to build in accordance with the RCD, your electrical installation should meet the relevant ISOs 10133 and 13297.

 

For new installations yes, but an unreliable system for older boats. Before a "standardised system emerged, boat builders used a variety of practices, often based upon road vehicle wiring of the day ie. brown for Negative and any colour for Positive. That is the system on our boat, so the advice is always test polarity of wiring before adding any new components.

 

I have done quite a lot of modifiction to the wiring on our boat over the years, and follow the RCD guidance, this does however sometimes give rise to the bizzaire situation where a red wire is connected to a black wire (both positive) I have compiled a detailed record of where this happens for any future owner.

[nicknorman]

For new installations yes, but an unreliable system for older boats. Before a "standardised system emerged, boat builders used a variety of practices, often based upon road vehicle wiring of the day ie. brown for Negative and any colour for Positive. That is the system on our boat, so the advice is always test polarity of wiring before adding any new components.

 

I have done quite a lot of modifiction to the wiring on our boat over the years, and follow the RCD guidance, this does however sometimes give rise to the bizzaire situation where a red wire is connected to a black wire (both positive) I have compiled a detailed record of where this happens for any future owner.

All true but this thread relates to a new build.

[David Schweizer]

All true but this thread relates to a new build.

 

That is a reasonable assumption, but not one actually identified by the OP. The OP could just as well be asking about additions to an existing system.

[nicknorman]

That is a reasonable assumption, but not one actually identified by the OP. The OP could just as well be asking about additions to an existing system.

Ok fair point but the OP has started numerous threads relating to his new build and I take this to be just another one even though as you say he doesn't specify it this time.

[NorthwichTrader]

Many thanks, all! To sum up...

 

Absolutely no aversion to heat shrink, i was just meaning the soldered and heat shrunk process.

 

Thanks smpt, most of my repeated ramblings have come on account of failed searches, and also specific thought processes going on in me old nod...plus, and most importantly, I'm operating an iPhone on GPRS, and this painfully slowly uses the forum app., which provides none of those great links in your signature!

A lot of my enquiries (most in fact) are spontaneous, unplanned, and frenzied...on account of which our boat (which is a new build) leaps on another level from lined shell, to 240v, to sink installation and drainage, to running water, and now the backbones of a DC system, and I only have the generous contributions of you gents to thank for all that!

It feels pretty damn safe, fitting out a boat from this nucleus of wisened young folk.

[raymondh]

Hi,

To do a propper job on a boat or any damp environment you should always use marine grade tinned cable made.to ISO 6722:2006 Class B

 

Ray

Edited October 14, 2014 by raymondh

[Alan de Enfield]

My boat isn't a 'damp environment' - you must be doing something wrong.

[nicknorman]

Hi,

To do a propper job on a boat or any damp environment you should always use marine grade tinned cable made.to ISO 6722:2006 Class B

 

Ray

A good idea in theory, especially for seagoing, but not normal practice for narrowboat fitouts. I did however specify tinned cable for our Empirbus "ring main" of thick 12v cable, but with hindsight I think it was unnecessary. Maybe for wiring inside a cruiser stern engine 'ole where it can be pretty damp. That said I don't think the engine marinisers use tinned cable on their looms.

[smileypete]

With tubular terminals it's possible to fully seal them with glue lined heatshrink so not so much need for tinned there, at least on a narrowboat.

 

The smaller pre-insulated or open barrel crimps aren't easy to seal so tinned could be a plus in a cruiser stern engine room, as Nick says. With plain copper, the ends could be dipped in silicone grease before crimping to help moisture proof them, but that's Frowned Upon by some.

 

Even with a new build colours some US kit like bilge pumps uses brown for +12V, some German kit like diesel heaters appear to use brown for 0V, so a good point by David.

 

I s'pose in those cases a red or black tie could be added to help identify it. I sometimes add a cable tie to wires that are switched 12V or 0V to help tell them apart from normal 12V or 0V.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited October 14, 2014 by smileypete

[DHutch]

Red or Black?

 

As said, typically you use the colour to determine what its doing. However sometimes cost/availability get in the way, all of EmilyAnnes battery cables are black as its welding cable (not uncommon 25 years ago) and the +ve leads are simply wrapped in red tape every 6inches, similarly the alternator cables (20 ft run) which are the only other sizable cables on the boat are both red, with the -ve wrapped in black every 6inchs, as the price of a 50ft roll was a lot less then two 20ft lengths and as they run in there almost on there own in the cable duct and its clear and both ends and along the length....

 

All mains is wired in flex, so to 'new colours' brown and blue, the ring main is in yellow arctic and all other mains cable in white, with the newly added lead from the inverter in blue.

 

 

Daniel

[jonathanA]

I'm a bit old fashioned and don't believe there's anything wrong with a quick bit of tinning on flex. however I have recently been converted to using these ferrules :

 

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/level5/module.jsp?moduleId=cpc/686258.xml

 

I've used them for sorting out RCBO neutral in and functional earths in consumer units amongst other things and they seem to do a good job without needing to fiddle about with a tool box full of crimping tools.

 

in terms of using tri-rated cable and colours can be helpful to have some different coloured sleeving to put on the end of cables to differentiate them and I also use a 'cable tie markers' to label what each cable/circuit does.

[Black Country Lee]

I have a big box of these...

 

 

Each circuit I install is numbered both ends, at joints or switches and on the plans so they can be identified at a glance.

 

Lee.

[NorthwichTrader]

Brilliant, Lee, where do I get those?

[Black Country Lee]

Brilliant, Lee, where do I get those?

 

All over, eGay, RS etc., have a google for 'slide on numbered cable sleeves'.

 

Lee.

 

ETA:- if you number a circuit, use 100's for lights, 200's for 12v sockets etc. and live side differently numbered after a switch. E.G. a light circuit is 100 from the breaker to switch, 101 after the switch and 103 for the -ve returning.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Black Country Lee