Which fish can I eat?

[Ricco1]

As I've said before, I know nothing about Fish or Fishing, I even have to ask others what is caught !,

I just googled 'Sea Bream' & was flooded with recipes. Not bad for something that doesn't exist !. Infact if that is the case, you could take the likes of Waitrose and Tesco to court and earn a few bob, as they sell and promote recipes for Sea Bream.

 

In the U.K. we have bronze and silver bream, which live in fresh water. Black, red and gilt heads live in salt water although only the black is fairly common. Red and gilt heads prefer warmer water than we have.

 

The term 'sea bream' is a recent creation by the food trade. I suppose you could say that because the term is used it exists. But if you order 'sea bream' you don't actually know which species you will be eating. This is surprising, given the tendency of the food industry to attempt to embellish any word or term it can, in order to extract more profit from a gullible public. 'New Zealand Lamb', 'Angus beef', 'sea salt', 'finest virgin olive oil'. From these they can print menus with offering of biblical proportions, in terms of the descriptive language used. Anyone for Scottish wild salmon slow cooked in a sealed clay pot with parsley from the herb garden. Accompanied with cheshire new potatoes glazed with locally churned butter served with a compot of sweated spring onions and seared wild garlic heads infused in a rich soured Ayrshire cream sauce?

 

Sea bream? na.

[Jerra]

Sea bream? na.

Surely if Black Bream is the only common Bream from UK waters what is happening is that the none fishing types are just calling Bream from the sea Sea Bream because they know it comes from the sea and they also know there are fresh water fish called Bream. The simple phrase Sea Bream tells the uninitiated customer something about the fish. Just Like Angus Beef and New Zealand Lamb tell you something about the meat i.e. Breed and place of origin respectively.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

 

In the U.K. we have bronze and silver bream, which live in fresh water. Black, red and gilt heads live in salt water although only the black is fairly common. Red and gilt heads prefer warmer water than we have.

 

The term 'sea bream' is a recent creation by the food trade. I suppose you could say that because the term is used it exists. But if you order 'sea bream' you don't actually know which species you will be eating. This is surprising, given the tendency of the food industry to attempt to embellish any word or term it can, in order to extract more profit from a gullible public. 'New Zealand Lamb', 'Angus beef', 'sea salt', 'finest virgin olive oil'. From these they can print menus with offering of biblical proportions, in terms of the descriptive language used. Anyone for Scottish wild salmon slow cooked in a sealed clay pot with parsley from the herb garden. Accompanied with cheshire new potatoes glazed with locally churned butter served with a compot of sweated spring onions and seared wild garlic heads infused in a rich soured Ayrshire cream sauce?

 

Sea bream? na.

Well done you, and thank you, I actually understand now, and that is no easy feat, Cheers Rocco 1.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Surely if Black Bream is the only common Bream from UK waters what is happening is that the none fishing types are just calling Bream from the sea Sea Bream because they know it comes from the sea and they also know there are fresh water fish called Bream. The simple phrase Sea Bream tells the uninitiated customer something about the fish. Just Like Angus Beef and New Zealand Lamb tell you something about the meat i.e. Breed and place of origin respectively.

Good point,

Sea Bream, as opposed to Fresh water Bream good enough for me, like Free range, as opposed to Battery ,,,it still an egg !

[Ricco1]

Surely if Black Bream is the only common Bream from UK waters what is happening is that the none fishing types are just calling Bream from the sea Sea Bream because they know it comes from the sea and they also know there are fresh water fish called Bream. The simple phrase Sea Bream tells the uninitiated customer something about the fish. Just Like Angus Beef and New Zealand Lamb tell you something about the meat i.e. Breed and place of origin respectively.

 

I suppose you could look at it that way. Less so for bass though, as there are no freshwater bass in the U.K. Bass is bass, the 'sea' is superfluous. Unless of course freshwater black bass is being imported from continental Europe, or large mouth of small mouth bass from the U.S. Very much doubt it though.

[MtB]

And the intersting thing is, if you look as 'sea bass' and 'sea bream' on the fish counter in Morrisons, they look identical!

[Ricco1]

And the intersting thing is, if you look as 'sea bass' and 'sea bream' on the fish counter in Morrisons, they look identical!

 

They shoudn't. Bass are a typical fish shape whereas all saltwater bream species are much higher in the back, much more rounded in that profile, rather than the elongated bass.

[pquinn]

 

In the U.K. we have bronze and silver bream, which live in fresh water. Black, red and gilt heads live in salt water although only the black is fairly common. Red and gilt heads prefer warmer water than we have.

 

The term 'sea bream' is a recent creation by the food trade. I suppose you could say that because the term is used it exists. But if you order 'sea bream' you don't actually know which species you will be eating. This is surprising, given the tendency of the food industry to attempt to embellish any word or term it can, in order to extract more profit from a gullible public. 'New Zealand Lamb', 'Angus beef', 'sea salt', 'finest virgin olive oil'. From these they can print menus with offering of biblical proportions, in terms of the descriptive language used. Anyone for Scottish wild salmon slow cooked in a sealed clay pot with parsley from the herb garden. Accompanied with cheshire new potatoes glazed with locally churned butter served with a compot of sweated spring onions and seared wild garlic heads infused in a rich soured Ayrshire cream sauce?

 

Sea bream? na.

What time's dinner at? I'll bring the alco pops.

[abraxus]

You can eat any fish you like. It's just illegal to remove them from our waterways.

 

That may be true of canals, and private waters will have their own rules, but you can take fish from rivers, subject to size and quantity limits.

 

https://www.gov.uk/freshwater-rod-fishing-rules/fish-size-and-catch-limits

[Ricco1]

 

That may be true of canals, and private waters will have their own rules, but you can take fish from rivers, subject to size and quantity limits.

 

https://www.gov.uk/freshwater-rod-fishing-rules/fish-size-and-catch-limits

 

Maybe, but you will find that only estuaries are not private, in one way or another.

[abraxus]

There seems to be plenty of free fishing on the Thames. In fact the whole stretch from Staines to Teddington (16 miles) is free fishing.

[Jerra]

There seems to be plenty of free fishing on the Thames. In fact the whole stretch from Staines to Teddington (16 miles) is free fishing.

Presumably you need a rod license though.

[abraxus]

Yes, you need a rod licence, but you can keep and eat what you catch, subject to catch limits.

[Locksprite]

No they're not!

They've been around a few years,but they're not a game fish.

Salmon,Sea trout,Trout & Char are game fish.

Slip of the fingers, I intended to say sporting fish, game fish are usually (and bizarrely) classified as such by having an adipose fin. This goes back to silly class distinction in angling.

 

What I was trying to get across is the idea that zander, like pike, are erroneously considered "vermin" to be killed.

[Locksprite]

 

There is no definite/strict definition of game fish and definition varies from country to country and it does include catfish strictly speaking which are not "game fish" in the sense they not are hunted with a fly for the pan. Generally game fish in UK are taken as those freshwater species species which are taken on a fly and have an adipose. It's more like a general category used by fisherman but the definition does not stand up to logical scrutiny; although widely used.

 

It's also a handy tag for tackle makers to add another zero on to the price of any tackle preceded by the work "game".

 

I've long suspected it's got a social root too in that gamekeepers via rich landowners protect the high value / high status good edible value of this handy classification "tag" of fish as distinct to "coarse" fish which are less "valuable".

Before the railways enabled inland city dwellers to eat fresh sea fish, most British freshwater fish were routinely eaten. The great catches of Victorian anglers on the Trent and Thames were all killed and sold on to fishmongers. While they make great angling history, such kills are completely unsustainable in an island the size of ours, which is why catch and release is taken so seriously. Contrast this with France were hunger in two world wars wiped out the fish stocks in many rivers, meaning current fish are "stockies", not wild indigenous.

 

Recent immigrants especially those from Eastern Europe, have no tradition of returning fish, which makes for conflict among club anglers. One hopes they learn the necessity of putting fish back for future generations to enjoy. Re. the coarse/game distinction, it's basically a typically British class bound split with no reference to logic, taste or sporting ability. Trout are stupid fish that will take anything edible and many things that aren't. Even within game fishing there's snobbery between wet and dry fly fishing, with the former perceived as the lesser discipline. Complete b****** of course.

 

Someone mentioned elvers up thread. Eels have declined by 90% in British waters by some estimates in the last two decades, no one's sure why. If anyone wants to try their hand at a real rarity, the Burbot might fit the bill. This once common freshwater member of the cod family went into rapid decline in the C20th and is generally assumed extinct, though intriguing recent sightings are claimed. The last confirmed one was in the early 1970s IIRC. Eastern England and the Pennine rivers offer the best, though undeniably slim chance of catching one.

[Jerra]

What I was trying to get across is the idea that zander, like pike, are erroneously considered "vermin" to be killed.

Pike certainly aren't vermin but Zander as an invasive species need thinning out( I think we are past the stage where we can hope to wipe them out) that is if there is any regard for UK aquatic biodiversity.

[Locksprite]

Pike certainly aren't vermin but Zander as an invasive species need thinning out( I think we are past the stage where we can hope to wipe them out) that is if there is any regard for UK aquatic biodiversity.

The idea of thinning out only works in enclosed riparian habitats, and not always then. Zander are way beyond enclosed status. The same policy was adopted for pike, removing the big predators resulting in a spike in the number of small jacks who were the big pike's natural prey. The jacks quickly ate all the other fish.

[Athy]

Signal crayfish when caught must NOT be returned to the water.They must be destroyed.

 

 

I don't think I would recognise one. I assume that the old quadrant type has largely been replaced by colour-light ones nowadays.

[Jerra]

The idea of thinning out only works in enclosed riparian habitats, and not always then. Zander are way beyond enclosed status. The same policy was adopted for pike, removing the big predators resulting in a spike in the number of small jacks who were the big pike's natural prey. The jacks quickly ate all the other fish.

So basically you feel certain parts of the UK aquatic fauna are doomed. Zander are not occupying a niche in our ecosystem which had previously been occupied. Unless of course there is any evidence that they are replacing pike as opposed to being yet another predator.

[Locksprite]

So basically you feel certain parts of the UK aquatic fauna are doomed. Zander are not occupying a niche in our ecosystem which had previously been occupied. Unless of course there is any evidence that they are replacing pike as opposed to being yet another predator.

Not at all. I think certain species are demonised and others valorised for no logical reason. Carp are an introduced species, yet people treat them as though they are as English as maypoles and crumpets.

 

Zander are predators and like other existing predators, eat smaller fish. Compared to avian predation, or otters, zander eat next to nothing. It used to be believed that pike decimated fish stocks, until fisheries research showed their diet was very modest. If it was close to the voraciousness people assume of them, pike would weigh two hundred pounds, or explode, whereas in fact they eat the odd fat chub or whatever, then they're stuffed and fish can swim past their nose end free and gratis.

 

I wouldn't recommend putting a zander in an ornamental goldfish pond, but removing one just makes more space for the next, and the chance of catching them all is zilch.

[Jerra]

Not at all. I think certain species are demonised and others valorised for no logical reason. Carp are an introduced species, yet people treat them as though they are as English as maypoles and crumpets.

 

Zander are predators and like other existing predators, eat smaller fish. Compared to avian predation, or otters, zander eat next to nothing. It used to be believed that pike decimated fish stocks, until fisheries research showed their diet was very modest. If it was close to the voraciousness people assume of them, pike would weigh two hundred pounds, or explode, whereas in fact they eat the odd fat chub or whatever, then they're stuffed and fish can swim past their nose end free and gratis.

 

I wouldn't recommend putting a zander in an ornamental goldfish pond, but removing one just makes more space for the next, and the chance of catching them all is zilch.

So you don't believe in the ecological principle of things evolving into their own niche within the ecosystem? Zander either don't have their own niche and so will be harmful in the long run or they will displace something from its niche.

 

With regard to Carp they have been in the UK ecology long enought to have either done all the harm they are likely to do (and either drastically reduced some species or even made them extinct) or they have displaced something to take over a niche. As they have been part of our biodiversity for so long it will be impossible to know which and/or what has been effected.

[Locksprite]

So you don't believe in the ecological principle of things evolving into their own niche within the ecosystem? Zander either don't have their own niche and so will be harmful in the long run or they will displace something from its niche.

 

With regard to Carp they have been in the UK ecology long enought to have either done all the harm they are likely to do (and either drastically reduced some species or even made them extinct) or they have displaced something to take over a niche. As they have been part of our biodiversity for so long it will be impossible to know which and/or what has been effected.

The overwhelming majority of carp have been introduced to this country in recent decades. They are bred specifically to be fast growing, and are stocked exclusively for anglers. The baits those anglers use, which are almost entirely artificial high protein concoctions with various questionable additives, not only distort the carp's natural shape into something resembling a pregnant sow, but do the same to the natural inhabitants, like roach and bream. What the long term effect of this dietary intervention might be, no one knows. In quite a few places the indigenous fish are removed as pests.

 

I'm not advocating introducing alien species, whether they be carp or zander, quite the opposite. I'm asking what can be done about them now they're here. Since catch and kill won't do the job, because there are too many and they're too wide spread, I'm at a loss as to how to address the issue.

[MtB]

Ok. Given I have a mooring on the Oxford Canal at Cropredy, how do I go about catching a zander? I'm intrigued!

 

And is it worth attempting to cook and eat, should I get lucky?

[W+T]

Ok. Given I have a mooring on the Oxford Canal at Cropredy, how do I go about catching a zander? I'm intrigued!

 

And is it worth attempting to cook and eat, should I get lucky?

 

 

Just like Pike to catch, i would rather put them back though. good game fish IMO, all fish are game to me.

[the barnacle]

birdseye - but you will need to find out your captain hat first