BMC FUEL LIFT PUMP

[Androo]

I have a leak on my fuel pump and I need to match up an identical one but, I am having problems.

 

I have found one for £20 at ASAP but, the connections look different to my existing one. A seal kit was almost £16 so I thought it best to opt for a new pump.

 

http://www.asap-supplies.com/search/bmc+1500+fuel+pump/fuel-lift-pump-bmc-1500-and-bmc-1800-131040

 

Mine has a connection on the top and the other on the right hand side of the pump when viewed fitted.

 

The ASAP one doesn't seem to have the same connection on top and the other connection is on the opposite side to mine.

 

Does it mean altering the fuel pipe?

 

Thanks

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

Yes, but I expect the union and threads will be the same.

[Androo]

Yes, but I expect the union and threads will be the same.

So the ASAP model will fit my engine for sure ?

[Bee]

Tony Brooks has far more knowledge than I but before fitting it I would just check that the lever that pokes into the crankcase is the same just to avoid the slightest chance of anything mangling up when you turn it over and if you are thinking of running it on pickled gherkins take my word for it, it won`t go.

[Androo]

Tony Brooks has far more knowledge than I but before fitting it I would just check that the lever that pokes into the crankcase is the same just to avoid the slightest chance of anything mangling up when you turn it over and if you are thinking of running it on pickled gherkins take my word for it, it won`t go.

That's a point. On comparing the photos of the levers that work on the camshaft mine, looks more erect than the ASAP one.... I wonder if this is detrimental??

[Pykebird]

This is why I always buy my BMC bits from calcutt! Not only do they talk to me like a "proper" person, but they always offer good advice, the parts are reasonable and if its in stock you usually get it the next day!

After my overheating drama, I won't go anywhere else.

Edited August 23, 2014 by pykebird

[RLWP]

You will still end up with the ASAP pump though. The other one looks very unusual

 

Richard

[pete.i]

It looks to me like the cam lever on your original pump would be actuated by the cam on the outside face of the cam lever. The ASAP one, which is the more usual BMC pump, has a cam lever that hooks under the actuating cam if that makes sense. Your original pump would be easier to install on an engine in situ when the pump is in an inaccessable place because you would just fit it. On my engine, which uses the ASAP type pump you have to hook the actuating lever under the engine cam and then hold it in position whilst fitting the holding nuts and I found that a little difficult on my engine because of where my pump and engine is in my engine bay.

 

I think that makes sense, at least it does to me because I have fitted three lift pumps all of the ASAP type. As has been said the unions and the threads should be the same on both pumps. I have to say that after much searching on EBay for these pumps, as I said I have fitted 3 now, I have never seen one with your original design. They all are of the ASAP type.

 

Forget that load of drivel. Just been down my garage where I have a spare lift pump and the cam contacts my actuating arm on the same side as your original pump. So basically I do not know why your original pump seems to have a more upright lever. I left my drivel there because if I had just deleted it that might have confused the issue even more if someone had read it. My apologies.

Edited August 23, 2014 by pete.i

[Tony Brooks]

I answered the original question, no mention about the ;lever there.

 

Without details of both mounting flages, where the holes re in a vertical plane, and where the lever is relative to the mounting holes I doubt anyone can answer the question unless they have done the job themselves.

 

I suspect the original may be an Indian or Turkish built engine so goodness knows how they modified it. I would also say go to Calcutt.

[bizzard]

And take the old pump with you to carefully compare,

[Androo]

 

I answered the original question, no mention about the ;lever there.

 

Without details of both mounting flages, where the holes re in a vertical plane, and where the lever is relative to the mounting holes I doubt anyone can answer the question unless they have done the job themselves.

 

I suspect the original may be an Indian or Turkish built engine so goodness knows how they modified it. I would also say go to Calcutt.

On the body of the pump it does say INDIA

Edited August 24, 2014 by Androo

[Androo]

You will still end up with the ASAP pump though. The other one looks very unusual

 

Richard

You mean mine looks unusual ?

 

It does have INDIA stamped on the side.

[Androo]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331294945103?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

Would this pump fit my engine? the cam arm looks similar to my old one.

 

The description mentions that the pressure was too high and the float wouldn't seat ???

[gazza]

That most likely referred to a petrol engine. There's no float to seal in a diesel system.

Just read the eBay description. The seller did indeed try it on an A series Petrol engine.

[Albion]

I realise that the ASAP pump says for both 1.5 and 1.8 but, wasn't the 1.5 continued in India and (definitely) the 1.8 in Turkey? So, if that is the case and my memory is correct (no guarantees on that score), could it be that the engine in question is a 1.5 of Indian origin? The pump is quite unusual.

Is it a 1.5 Androo?

Roger

[Androo]

I realise that the ASAP pump says for both 1.5 and 1.8 but, wasn't the 1.5 continued in India and (definitely) the 1.8 in Turkey? So, if that is the case and my memory is correct (no guarantees on that score), could it be that the engine in question is a 1.5 of Indian origin? The pump is quite unusual.

Is it a 1.5 Androo?

Roger

Roger,

 

On the pump body it does have printed the words, UCAL INDIA. It is a BMC 1500 (It is cast on the engine block).

[Albion]

Roger,

 

On the pump body it does have printed the words, UCAL INDIA. It is a BMC 1500 (It is cast on the engine block).

That stacks up quite nicely with this then Ucal Fuel Systems of Chennai http://www.ucalfuel.com/

Roger

Edited to add that a bit of Googling reveals that what is almost certainly the 1.5 ex-BMC diesel engine was still being used in the Hindustan Ambassador up to recent times.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Albion

[Androo]

That stacks up quite nicely with this then Ucal Fuel Systems of Chennai http://www.ucalfuel.com/

Roger

Edited to add that a bit of Googling reveals that what is almost certainly the 1.5 ex-BMC diesel engine was still being used in the Hindustan Ambassador up to recent times.

But do you think the pump at ASAP will do the job?

[Albion]

But do you think the pump at ASAP will do the job?

Quite probably as it is unlikely that they reconfigured the mounting face to camshaft distances etc. It will, as others have said, involve re-piping though. Be careful to get the operating lever arm on the right side of the cam. Check mounting block and gaskets etc when refitting.

Roger

[Androo]

Quite probably as it is unlikely that they reconfigured the mounting face to camshaft distances etc. It will, as others have said, involve re-piping though. Be careful to get the operating lever arm on the right side of the cam. Check mounting block and gaskets etc when refitting.

Roger

Re: the arm on the cam. My original pump was set on the outside of the camshaft, (the wear can be seen in the photo). As I have stated earlier, the arm on my pump has a steeper curve than the ASAP pump. Would that mean that the ASAP pump arm would be located underneath the camshaft or, would it be fitted on the outside always??

[Albion]

Re: the arm on the cam. My original pump was set on the outside of the camshaft, (the wear can be seen in the photo). As I have stated earlier, the arm on my pump has a steeper curve than the ASAP pump. Would that mean that the ASAP pump arm would be located underneath the camshaft or, would it be fitted on the outside always??

As far as I am aware the pump operating arm contacts the cam on the same side as your original one (ie the outside). Quite why yours has the steeper arm I have no idea but you should compare carefully with the new pump before fitting. I presume that yours has the insulating mounting block underneath the pump flange? Talk to ASAP about it so that they may be pre-warned of a possible return for refund.

Roger

[bizzard]

Yes outside. If the arm on the ASAP AC pump sticks out more than your old one check with ASAP or Calcut if there's a thick pump to block gasket that would correct the discrepancy. These thick block gaskets are usually about 1/4'' thick and exactly the same profile as the thin plain gasket. They were mainly used on petrol engines to cut down heat transfer from engine block to pump that could cause petrol evaporation. You will probably need longer fixing bolts or studs to accommodate the thick block gasket. You need to compare measurements.

[Androo]

Yes outside. If the arm on the ASAP AC pump sticks out more than your old one check with ASAP or Calcut if there's a thick pump to block gasket that would correct the discrepancy. These thick block gaskets are usually about 1/4'' thick and exactly the same profile as the thin plain gasket. They were mainly used on petrol engines to cut down heat transfer from engine block to pump that could cause petrol evaporation. You will probably need longer fixing bolts or studs to accommodate the thick block gasket. You need to compare measurements.

The only gasket between the block and the pump was, a paper/card gasket no block gasket/insulator fitted.

[bizzard]

The only gasket between the block and the pump was, a paper/card gasket no block gasket/insulator fitted.

Ok, like I said discuss with ASAP or Calcutt. You on the old pump measure the levers distance from bolting face to levers cam contact face also sideways on the levers cam contact areas height in relation to the bolting face and get ASAP or Calcutt to do the same on a new pump. Compare differences and if a new pumps lever does stick out more than the old one enquire about a thick insulating block gasket to correct the difference. The thick block gasket is a hard plastic with an ordinary thin gasket stuck on both sides all ready to fit. If so don't forget to enquire about the possibility of you needing longer fixing bolts or studs.

[Albion]

OK Tony and Bizz, what about this for a theory that I thought of (here in France, one hour ahead so wasn't convenient to post last night).

The manufacturing volumes for a fuel lift pump for both petrol and diesel B Series engines must be quite low now. If you make only the petrol engine configuration pump (with the shallower angle of operating lever) and require the diesel engine to be fitted with an insulating block (as per the type fitted to petrol engines as pointed out by Bizz) then the shallower arm might work for both types of engine. This requires the addition of the block and longer studs of course but could that explain the difference in angle of the ASAP pump compared to Androo's original Indian pump which was fitted to the block without the insulating spacer?

 

Androo,

You must make sure that the pump arm is fitted to the correct side of the cam. If the cam lobe that drives the pump happens to be sitting in a bad place it is very easy to fit the pump with the arm the wrong side of the cam. That is why ASAP make a caveat on their site that they won't be responsible for a pump fitted incorrectly. Concentrate on getting the arm in first, above the cam, and then almost activate the pump by pressing the body downwards to fit the flange to the studs. Don't take the easy option and fit the pump to the studs only as it is possible that the arm with be the wrong side of the cam lobe.

Roger

Edited to add that this commonality idea almost crosses with the suggestion that Bizz has proposed above in post #24

Edited August 26, 2014 by Albion