Struggling to tie up properly in our mooring

[beatnik]

Hi, we're fitting out our Sailaway at the moment and are moored up between a pontoon and another boat. Our boat is 57" and the pontoon only goes 3/4 of the way up to the bow.

 

Out problem is that we don't have anything on the boat near the pontoon's mooring ring to fix the ropes to. The centre ring is so far back that it is rubbing the paint off, the fender loops are nowhere near the pontoon's bollards... with all of this wind at the moment, the boat is floating away from the pontoon quite a bit. We've now been forced to tie the lines to a mushroom vent. Obviously not ideal.

 

Any suggestions of some sort of eye or hoop that we can fix to the boat adjacent to the bollard on the pontoon? We're in London so there isn't a chandlery to peruse and I don't know what to look for on the internet.

 

Thanks

B

[Keeping Up]

Two quick suggestions:

 

1. How about running a line from the front T-stud to the rear dolly, running along the side of the boat just above the gunwales, and tightening it very very tightly (by using a "Spanish windlass" for example). You can then use the entire length of this rope to secure a loop from a second short rope to the pontoon. It would need to be a good-sized rope as it will be under considerable strain on windy days, and should only be regarded as a temporary measure because the two ropes will wear badly by rubbung against each other, but it should save your mushroom vents until you have a more permanent solution available.

 

2. I hope I'm not teaching anyone to suck eggs here, but do your ropes go to the OPPOSITE side of the pontoon. It is almost impossible to tie properly to a bollard or ring which is only an inch or two away from the boat; the ropes will pull at a much better angle if they go to the other side of the jetty just a couple of feet further away. Two boats that are stern-in on opposite sides of a short jetty with their bows in open water, will always ride more comfortably if their bow ropes back to the end of the jetty, cross over half way and each goes to the other side. They'll be even better if the two boats are also tied together at the T-studs.

 

Allan

[alan_fincher]

It's slightly hard to envisage what you are saying from the description, (or to me it is anyway!...)

 

I can clearly understand "moored against a pontoon", and that the pontoon ain't long enough, (from your description boat overhangs it by say 25% of 57 feet, so maybe 14 feet ??).

 

I'm not quite sure though about being moored "between a pontoon and another boat". Is the other boat only tied to you, (and hence you are trying to restrain that as well), or is that itself moored to another pontoon ?

 

I can't really see it can be the latter, as presumably with two boats between two pontoons they couldn't drift about much, even if sticking out beyond them, (well they don't where we moor anyway - there's barely 14 feet between each of the many parallel pontoons.

 

Can you give a bit more detail.

 

Is/are pontoon(s) "edge on to bank ?

Or in some way parallel to the canal side, as is sometimes the case ?

What's the other boat tied to, and where ?

Is it your bow or your stern sticking out ?

By how much does the cabin part of the boat overhang the pontoon ?

 

Clearly mooring to a centre ring is not ideal, and a mushroom vent even less so, (as you have appreciated). Even if no damage is done, (unlikely, in the longer term), the boat will tend to tilt as the wind pushes against it.

 

If you could post some pictures, I'm sure it would be easier for people to try and think of something inventive.

 

Alan

[John Orentas]

A common problem this, the only longer term solution is to have a couple of cleats welded to the hull, on top of the gunnel is a good place. Keep them fairly small and they won't look unsightly they can of course double as fender fixings, a 'U' from 10mm dia bar with a 12mm loop is sufficient. Do both sides while you are at it and position them such that the boat can be moored in either direction. Mooring to the centre line cleat even for a night is not good thing as it tends to exaggerate the rocking of the boat (many of the slow down brigade do this to give themselves more to moan about).

 

A local boatyard can do the job or even a fabricator may come out to you with a portable welding set.

[magnetman]

Might be an idea to walk down the gunnel, in a normal way, holding the handrail, and work out a position which is underneath a naturally occuring step so that the eye/cleat etc gets stepped over in the normal course of events rather than being in the way. I believe this was the theory of the positioning of 'anser pins' (is that the right word?) on motor workboats.

[DHutch]

I also am not 100% sure of what your trying to describe with the comments about the other boat.

- However, i am willing to agree with you tieing a longish boat (we're 58ft) to a short jetty/fingarboard can be quite a challenge.

 

My first step would always to secure the end that is against the jetty (for now, im going to assume that the bow, although it doesnt really matter). When mooring a boat you have to constrain it in two dimentions, to prevent both movement both forwards/backwards and left/right.

 

Usally the first ring is placed right at the at the very end of the jetty to make mex use of the lenght there, this makes it not bad for tieing the bow to, holding it in, and prevent backwards movment. However, it can still move forwards. So i would then add a 'spring'.

- Spings are ropes which run basicaly paralell to the boat, to prevent it moving lineraly, and can often be very helpfull in conjuntion with the normal mooring lines

- An exteame example of mooring with springs would be to tie the mooring ropes to pegs for and arft, at 90degrees to the bank (breast lines to yachtsmen). And then add a rope from the bow of the boat to the stern peg, and a second from the stern to the forward peg.

- You quite often see this in use by yachts, where there round belly makes mooring against a (stright) jetty more complected!

- But in this case, i would be looking to have a rope from the bow back to the next ring along, say there aorund 6ft apart-ish.

- If your bow line is long enough, you can use it for both, but you must tie it off at all four ends. Ie, take it from the bow to the forward ring (shortest distance) back the t'stud and tie it off. Then taking it for use a spring, tieing the freeend to the ring.

- What you CANNOT do, but is seen all too often, its take it in a big traiangle, T'stud, ring one, ring two, back. Becuase the rope will simply run freely though the rings, allowing it it to move all over the shop.

 

So anyway we've then ropes holding the bow aganst the jetty, and preventing it moving eather forwards an backwards. And we just have to some how hold the stern in, to prevent the whole lot swinging about the bow. This is where you have to get inventive!!

- If the jettys only about 6/8ft too short, you can often get away with just a line from the stearn dolly to the end of the jetty if you run it to the far side of the jetty to get a better angle. Relying on that spring to hold the boat from going forwards.

- If its really loads to short, then sort of, whateven else works! Centerlines can be used sometimes. Or as you say, ive seen fender eyes used (we dont have any), but if you do do that, you usally need some thiner rope to pass though the small hole, Thats fine, bit if its too weak, i have seen then snap.

- We have tubular hand rails alone the cabin, so can also use them to tie stuff too (inc fenders). We also have a raised "sidewall" around our sterndeck with drain holes in the forward corners, and i have used these before. passing a rope end though them, and tieing it to something that wont go back though the hole. Like the mudwight. (see 'mudwight' thread).

- Also, if the jetty is actually running paralell to a bank, you can put a stake into, that another option. Or if the boat on the otherside of the fingarboard if thats what it is, is a long boat, well moored, and not often out, you can always tie your sterns together. Espically if you ask first or know them. You can also have a look at what there doing to moor!!

 

Here are some drawings to help you visualise the above:

 

 

 

Also, this topic is very much simular to a prevous problem discused here: http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=6119

 

And i have also moved this thread over to "boat handling" , leaving a trace thread, if thats ok.

 

 

 

Daniel

[beatnik]

Thanks for all of your replies.

 

Sorry! I'll try to be more clear.

 

We are in a mooring where the towpath goes into a U shape. Inside the U it is: towpath wall, boat, pontoon, boat, my boat, pontoon, boat. Four boats, two pontoons. Stern in. The outside boats are well sheltered by the walls which run the full length of those boats (60"). The boat directly next to ours (no pontoon between) is only 35". So we seem to the be the only one affected badly by the wind. Doesn't help that we are in the middle of fitting out and aren't too deep in the water yet.

 

We had thought about welding some sort of ring to the gunnel that can clip down when not in use - but I was concerned about it being in the way (even when clipped down flat it could be an obstruction) when walking along the gunnels. Maybe welding something to the handrail would be better?

 

I can see how having the lines on the opposite dolly may help, but I don't want to obstruct the pontoon for our neighbour - and ourselves.

[Semitrad]

Strong magnet?

[magnetman]

Strong magnet?

 

They tend to scratch the paintwork.

[DHutch]

We are in a mooring where the towpath goes into a U shape. Inside the U it is: towpath wall, boat, pontoon, boat, my boat, pontoon, boat. Four boats, two pontoons. Stern in. The outside boats are well sheltered by the walls which run the full length of those boats (60"). The boat directly next to ours (no pontoon between) is only 35". So we seem to the be the only one affected badly by the wind. Doesn't help that we are in the middle of fitting out and aren't too deep in the water yet.

Right, ok, so its basicaly a small marina with a number of (40ft ish) fingarboards with pairs of boats between.

- Very much like kingsground, the marina pictured in the, the thread i linked to earlyer.

 

 

Daniel

[blackrose]

To save your paintwork in the absence of fairleads, try putting an old towel or piece of foam or car sponge under the rope where it rubs on the boat. It usually stays put if the ropes are tight. Unlike mooring in places where water levels vary, with pontoon mooring you can tie up very tight because the pontoons themselves will rise and fall.

Edited January 11, 2007 by blackrose

[magnetman]

How about using ratchet straps to actually strap the boat to the pontoon, in the same way as Daniel was suggesting a while ago to breast up two Narrowboats...

 

This might work as long as the pontoon is sliding on posts.

Awkward getting the strap under the boat but not impossible.

[Keeping Up]

Thanks for all of your replies.

I can see how having the lines on the opposite dolly may help, but I don't want to obstruct the pontoon for our neighbour - and ourselves.

Assuming we're stil talking about the dollies that are at the end of the pontoon, they'd only be an obstruction to your neighbour if he's planning to walk off the end of the pontoon!

[chris w]

Many years ago, my wife was polishing our then GRP cruiser. She walked from the water end of the pontoon to the (inland)stern of the boat polishing as she went. I turned the boat around (my contribution) so that she could polish the other side.

 

She then proceeded to polish from the (now inland) bow end to the stern again, walking backwards and bending over to polish. She was concentrating on the polishing and, in her mind, obviously forgetting I had turned the boat around, she walked backwards straight off the end of the pontoon into the canal! Because she was using a relatively expensive polish (Mer) her first thought was to save the Mer. The first site after the splash was of an arm rising out of the water holding the Mer aloft, reminiscent of Excalibur and the Lady of the Lake.

 

Chris

[Supermalc]

Hi, we're fitting out our Sailaway at the moment and are moored up between a pontoon and another boat. Our boat is 57" and the pontoon only goes 3/4 of the way up to the bow.

 

You could always get a shorter boat

[Amicus]

For a tie-off point mid-ships at gunwale level, hows about a pair of these?

http://www.defender.com/category.jsp?path=...9&id=657242

I have seen them for sale in this country, but can't find where.

Edited January 11, 2007 by Amicus

[chris w]

For a tie-off point mid-ships at gunwale level, hows about a pair of these?

http://www.defender.com/category.jsp?path=...9&id=657242

I have seen them for sale in this country, but can't find where.

monitor marine

 

see "latest products" here (last item at bottom of page)

 

Monitor Marine International

Swanwick Marina

Swanwick

Southampton

SO31 1ZL

United Kingdom

Tel: +44 (0) 1489 571677

Fax: +44 (0) 1489 571581

 

Chris

Edited January 11, 2007 by chris w

[beatnik]

Thanks. I think I'll look for something similar to that cleat at the London Boat Show this weekend. And if I can't find anything suitable, I'll order it from Monitor Marine.

 

Thanks for the suggestions. And erm, now I get what you mean about tying to the opposite dolly (aha! only to the end one so as not to create some sort of human spiderweb...)

[magnetman]

Thanks. I think I'll look for something similar to that cleat at the London Boat Show this weekend. And if I can't find anything suitable, I'll order it from Monitor Marine.

 

Thanks for the suggestions. And erm, now I get what you mean about tying to the opposite dolly (aha! only to the end one so as not to create some sort of human spiderweb...)

 

The cleat pictured looks very tricky to fit to a steel boat, requiring lots of drilling and cutting of steel and internal lining.

 

An M16 eyebolt would be easier to fit but would stick up a bit however I do think it would be more secure - I have seen lightweight cleats break on narrowboats.

 

M16 Stainless eyebolt:

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BRAND-NEW-16MM-STAIN...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

(edited)

Edited January 12, 2007 by magnetman

[Liam]

The cleat pictured looks very tricky to fit to a steel boat, requiring lots of drilling and cutting of steel and internal lining.

 

An M16 eyebolt would be easier to fit but would stick up a bit however I do think it would be more secure - I have seen lightweight cleats break on narrowboats.

 

M16 Stainless eyebolt:

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BRAND-NEW-16MM-STAIN...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

(edited)

We had those on our old boat. Although it was only 38ft they took some bashing but were great. Just make sure the hole you make in the gunnel doesn't leak

[magnetman]

We had those on our old boat. Although it was only 38ft they took some bashing but were great. Just make sure the hole you make in the gunnel doesn't leak

 

A nice way to fit them would be to tap a 16mm thread (a bit tricky rotating the tap handle but could be done, slowly in quarter turns) then thread the eye into it, with a washer under it, threadlock in the thread itself and fix a nyloc nut inside with washer as well. That should seal the hole hopefully.

Easier would be to get a mild steel eye welded on but welding has to be well done to be strong enough. These things do take a bit of bashing around so mild steel might be better as they are rated lifting eyes usually.

[fender.]

Any suggestions of some sort of eye or hoop that we can fix to the boat adjacent to the bollard on the pontoon? We're in London so there isn't a chandlery to peruse and I don't know what to look for on the internet.

 

Thanks

B

 

As well as the boat show, there's several chandleries within London, so there are plenty to peruse: theres one in Covent Garden, 2 at Uxbridge, one by Teddington lock footbridge, four at Walton on Thames and its possible Eel Pie Island has one.

[DHutch]

Unlike mooring in places where water levels vary, with pontoon mooring you can tie up very tight because the pontoons themselves will rise and fall.

This is true with a floating pontoon indeed.

- However if it is a fixed jetty, and most are on the canal, then this is not the case at all!

 

 

How about using ratchet straps to actually strap the boat to the pontoon, in the same way as Daniel was suggesting a while ago to breast up two Narrowboats...

You could, and it does get done. However i would never recoment such a practice.

- Mooring ropes should never have to be that tight, and certainly should never be that tight unless you are on a floating mooring/floating pontoon.

 

 

We had thought about welding some sort of ring to the gunnel that can clip down when not in use - but I was concerned about it being in the way (even when clipped down flat it could be an obstruction) when walking along the gunnels. Maybe welding something to the handrail would be better?

Best solution in my book for that would be to do simualur to whats been done on this boat for hanging fenders.

- You could make them a little bigger. But the small and dont extent from the profile of the boat at all, while still being stong and secure.

- I too would not be at all happy with using many of the weak fittings designed for smaller lighter boats, often putting form before function!

 

Simuarly if seen and heard all to much of unsuitably specificed or placed fairleads failing and causing more problems and potential accedents than they ever solve. They also look stupid and out of place to my mind (you can also so see some a pair brass fairleads fitted to the boat i have shown below)

 

 

 

Daniel

[magnetman]

This might work as long as the pontoon is sliding on posts.

 

I agree not to do this on fixed moorings, certainly, although if the strap went around the boat THEN the rope was tied to the strap it would provide a removeable central fixing point for use when on the pontoon, would save the requirement to drill holes in the boat.

[DHutch]

I agree not to do this on fixed moorings, certainly, although if the strap went around the boat THEN the rope was tied to the strap it would provide a removeable central fixing point for use when on the pontoon, would save the requirement to drill holes in the boat.

Yes, i almost mentioned that.

 

Also i did receave your PM, however, i got a little bit carryed away writing a reply, and had to leave it part way though. Ill try a finish and send it this afternoon.

 

 

Daniel