What would be the original throttle on a big Northwich be?

[Leo No2]

I am reliably advised that Sculptor would have had the standard GU small wheel for throttle adjustment and the larger wheel for changing from forward to reverse which is why the bigger access hole between the cabin and the engine room is visible in my image on post #24. Sculptor would have had a Russel Newbery engine up until the early 1960s when there was, I understand, a large number of HA2 Lister engines fitted to the GU boats owned by BTB/BW - Sculptor retains her Lister HA2 today along with the (I assume) modified throttle and gear change arrangements.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Leo No2

[FadeToScarlet]

I am reliably advised that Sculptor would have had the standard GU small wheel for throttle adjustment and the larger wheel for ganging from forward to reverse which is why the bigger access hole between the cabin and the engine room is visible in my image on post #24. Sculptor would have had a Russel Newbery engine up until the early 1960s when there was, I understand, a large number of HA2 Lister engines fitted to the GU boats owned by BTB/BW - Sculptor retains her Lister HA2 today along with the (I assume) modified throttle and gear change arrangements.

That's the exact same quadrant as the Ibex has, and.that was also.reengined by Waterways.

[Timleech]

That's the exact same quadrant as the Ibex has, and.that was also.reengined by Waterways.

 

 

At least twice!

 

Tim

[Blossom]

If you want to see an original set up speak to Cliff Sherwood owner of small Northwich motor Belatrix as this still has it's original RN and original speedwheel and 'ahead' - 'astern' gear wheel. In fact I would say it is the boat that is in it's most original condition (apart from replacement of timberworks, bottoms, gunnels, running gear, cloths etc)

[Paul H]

Sorry to join this discussion so late. I am however of the belief that the GUCCC boats (at least the Woolwich ones) were delivered with cable throttle controls and a small quadrant handle. This information was given to me by I think 3 different sources - former boatman Charlie Green and Brinklow Boats amongst them.

 

GUCCC boats were designed with a number of innovations which worked poorly in practice. Well known are the "liner" funnels which were awkward to take down for low bridges and the cabinside panelling which made it impossible to remove the engine 'ole roof to lift engines out. But there were other less-known features such as the continuous cants on the counter which met the gunnels with only small and inadequate limber holes for drainage and the oil pressure gauge - not on the roof where it is usually seen today but in the "castle panel" on the weatherboard just inside the doors. I imagine the cable throttles didn't stand up to "robust" use by boatmen and were replaced in early dockings on the regularly crewed boats.

 

Some of the boat crewed by the wartime "idle women" had been laid up for some time and were quite shabby so its is unlikely that many modifications apart from the removal of the hugely impractical funnels had taken place.

 

We therefore have a valuable resource of photos of GUCCC boats in pretty much their original form. Some of the best photographs are in the collection of Audrey Hunt now passed to her son John Mornington (and his copyright.) Here is a picture taken out of the Sun's hatches.

 

 

It seems fairly clear to me that no speed wheel was fitted here and I could even be persuaded to believe I can just see the quadrant handle just to the right of the word Collection.

 

You would think that as features were found to be impractical on the "small" boats these would have been designed-out by the time the "large" boats were delivered up to 2 years later but this doesn't seems to have been the case at least with the cants and the panelling.

 

I don't think its is likely we will ever find a clear photograph of a quadrant cable throttle control but the absence of speedwheel is easier to see.

 

I would hope the OP preserves the existing set-up as an interesting reminder of how things (probably) were. It's also one less thing to bang your head on!

 

Paul

[Timleech]

That's the exact same quadrant as the Ibex has, and.that was also.reengined by Waterways.

 

Quadrants very similar to that in the picture were fitted (from new, I think) to Armstrongs, bolted to the side of the flywheel housing. Sometimes they were retained on the engine, with the ratchet pawl removed, and the lever drilled to take a rod or cable for remote operation.

 

Edit to add that my experience of that style of control is that very often you can't get the exact setting that you want!

 

Tim

Edited July 31, 2014 by Timleech

[Timleech]

It seems fairly clear to me that no speed wheel was fitted here and I could even be persuaded to believe I can just see the quadrant handle just to the right of the word Collection.

 

 

 

Paul

I can also convince myself that there is a wheel there, just aft of what I'm guessing is your 'quadrant handle'.

I can see either, depending on what I want to see

 

Tim

[Paul H]

I can also convince myself that there is a wheel there, just aft of what I'm guessing is your 'quadrant handle'.

I can see either, depending on what I want to see

 

Tim

 

For a speedwheel to be usable and sufficiently close to the hatchway I think it would clearly show in silhouette.

 

Paul

[Laurence Hogg]

Sorry to join this discussion so late. I am however of the belief that the GUCCC boats (at least the Woolwich ones) were delivered with cable throttle controls and a small quadrant handle. This information was given to me by I think 3 different sources - former boatman Charlie Green and Brinklow Boats amongst them.

 

GUCCC boats were designed with a number of innovations which worked poorly in practice. Well known are the "liner" funnels which were awkward to take down for low bridges and the cabinside panelling which made it impossible to remove the engine 'ole roof to lift engines out. But there were other less-known features such as the continuous cants on the counter which met the gunnels with only small and inadequate limber holes for drainage and the oil pressure gauge - not on the roof where it is usually seen today but in the "castle panel" on the weatherboard just inside the doors. I imagine the cable throttles didn't stand up to "robust" use by boatmen and were replaced in early dockings on the regularly crewed boats.

 

Some of the boat crewed by the wartime "idle women" had been laid up for some time and were quite shabby so its is unlikely that many modifications apart from the removal of the hugely impractical funnels had taken place.

 

We therefore have a valuable resource of photos of GUCCC boats in pretty much their original form. Some of the best photographs are in the collection of Audrey Hunt now passed to her son John Mornington (and his copyright.) Here is a picture taken out of the Sun's hatches.

 

 

It seems fairly clear to me that no speed wheel was fitted here and I could even be persuaded to believe I can just see the quadrant handle just to the right of the word Collection.

 

You would think that as features were found to be impractical on the "small" boats these would have been designed-out by the time the "large" boats were delivered up to 2 years later but this doesn't seems to have been the case at least with the cants and the panelling.

 

I don't think its is likely we will ever find a clear photograph of a quadrant cable throttle control but the absence of speedwheel is easier to see.

 

I would hope the OP preserves the existing set-up as an interesting reminder of how things (probably) were. It's also one less thing to bang your head on!

 

Paul

 

Fairly sure the oil pressure gauges in the "castle panel" were only a feature of the wooden motor boats. "Neptune" had the remains as did "Umbriel" when I owned them.

[Paul H]

 

Fairly sure the oil pressure gauges in the "castle panel" were only a feature of the wooden motor boats. "Neptune" had the remains as did "Umbriel" when I owned them.

They were also fitted to the small woolwichs at least. Other things to note from the pic are the continuous stern cants and the fixing position for the huge tipcats. Odd that fenders were fitted before doors and portholes!

 

Paul

 

(Copyright Hulton Picture Library/Getty)

[Laurence Hogg]

I don't have a copy but "motor boat" did a large review of the GU motor boats when the fleet was inaugurated.

[Laurence Hogg]

Lets see what you make of this picture taken at Tyseley.

 

[furnessvale]

Lets see what you make of this picture taken at Tyseley.

 

It looks just like the arrangement on my ex FMC Badger, which I make no claim is original.

 

The left side is a push pull forward reverse and the right side is a speedwheel.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[David Mack]

It looks just like the arrangement on my ex FMC Badger, which I make no claim is original.

 

The left side is a push pull forward reverse and the right side is a speedwheel.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

On the Brunton gearboxes fitted to Nationals and RNs the gear actuation is on the right hand side of the gearbox, so (assuming this is a boat with a National/RN), I think it is fairly safe to assume that the wheel on the right is for the gear.

 

I can't remember the arrangement on the RN, but on the National the speed control is on the left hand side of the engine, which would again suggest that the speed wheel or lever would be on the left.

[furnessvale]

 

On the Brunton gearboxes fitted to Nationals and RNs the gear actuation is on the right hand side of the gearbox, so (assuming this is a boat with a National/RN), I think it is fairly safe to assume that the wheel on the right is for the gear.

 

I can't remember the arrangement on the RN, but on the National the speed control is on the left hand side of the engine, which would again suggest that the speed wheel or lever would be on the left.

Agreed. On reflection, the right hand wheel is rather large for a speedwheel and the left hand could be a reflection off a solid disc, as opposed to a spoked wheel.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Timleech]

On the Brunton gearboxes fitted to Nationals and RNs the gear actuation is on the right hand side of the gearbox, so (assuming this is a boat with a National/RN), I think it is fairly safe to assume that the wheel on the right is for the gear.

 

I can't remember the arrangement on the RN, but on the National the speed control is on the left hand side of the engine, which would again suggest that the speed wheel or lever would be on the left.

Yes, both National and RN have the governor gear on the Port side of the engine.

Is it definitely a boat with one of those engines, though? The tall pipe appears to be a long way over to the right, and is that brass wheel big enough for operating a Bruntons box?

Do you have a boat name and/or year, Laurence?

 

Tim

[Leo No2]

This is an oil pressure gauge as fitted to Sculptor. It does seem to me to be from the 1960s perhaps. It is not currently connected.

 

[archie57]

Think this is Sampson Rd. rather than Tyseley

[Paul H]

I think Lawrence's photo is probably the Comet judging by the unusual treatment and proportions of the doors and the apparent cabinside foot steps. Jim Payler's photo below is dated 1959 so I imagine the Birmingham one is a similar date. Plenty of time for engine control alterations by then of course. I imagine the brass gear wheel was a bit of boater's bling acquired from somewhere.

 

Paul

 

[Laurence Hogg]

I think Lawrence's photo is probably the Comet judging by the unusual treatment and proportions of the doors and the apparent cabinside foot steps. Jim Payler's photo below is dated 1959 so I imagine the Birmingham one is a similar date. Plenty of time for engine control alterations by then of course. I imagine the brass gear wheel was a bit of boater's bling acquired from somewhere.

 

Paul

 

 

Paul, it is supposed to be a large Northwich motor, look carefully and the second band is visible at the waterline (or is it?) it could be a reflection, also the rams head matches your pic. The butty is Branksome, from the family collection it came from "Tyseley" or "Towcester" may be candidates, the only small boat featured in the collection is Auriga although I do agree there are too many matches to the boat in your picture. I'll post full pic up.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Laurence Hogg

[Laurence Hogg]

[ChimneyChain]

I find these threads so interesting. Keep going and thanks !!!!

 

Darren

[archie57]

The "Comet" was I believe paired with the "Branksome" at one point, in the captaincy of, I think, George Aldridge

[Paul H]

What initially appears to be an extra rubbing band which is a feature of Northwich built boat is I think the water level. The boat is canted over slightly so this is indicative of unloading or loading taking place at the fore end which has put the counter lower than usual. I also think the letterbox vent on the cabinside is of the Woolwich pattern rather than the larger ones fitted by Yarwoods.

 

There is no air vent on the roof of my pic so I presume the National is still installed. Is this borne out by the exhaust position?

 

Paul

[IanM]

I love these threads about boats I have an interest in. I know Tony Jones who ran Comet for a number of years.