£18000 budget first time liveaboard wanted. Key things to ask.

[Paul G2]

Hi again Lou,

 

Since you said the stern tube might need work, you might want to read this thread. It should give you some idea of what the stern tube is and what needs to be done.

[LouBLou]

Cheers Dean, sounds an exciting new adventure you and your family started Great tips, always good to know the practical stuff. If i can go ahead with it, should look on amazon for some book /bible of narrowboating.

 

And thanks Paul i had no idea what the stern tube bit was (and would know to grease it now, see it all just another learning curve). There is a boatyard with a good rep my way, can give them a ring before committing to anything, for pricing.

[LouBLou]

One last thing... sorry

 

If i wanted to change the name of a boat, is that a big no no, easy to do?

 

x

[KJT]

One last thing... sorry

 

If i wanted to change the name of a boat, is that a big no no, easy to do?

 

x

Hi Lou

 

Another welcome to the forum. You have had some good practical advice there.

 

You can easily change the name. There are some who are superstitious about doing so, but if you aren't, then all you need to do is notify CRT (Canals and Rivers Trust) who licence your boat, and probably the insurance company. Most of the official paperwork such as the BSS certificate will refer also to the official registration number which your boat will (should) have.

 

One thing you should bear in mind is there is no official registration document unlike a car, so establishing a boats provenience is not so straight forward so care should excercised to ensure it is genuine. The same would apply if you change it's name. Just try and ensure the 'paper trail' remains intact for when you eventually come to sell it.

 

Ken

[LouBLou]

Cheers

 

Be really nice to put our own stamp on our new home, I know this is the last thing I should be wondering about, but just for when I finally get afloat

 

Have a great Sunday guys

[DannyB]

I was in your position this time last year. I knew nothing about narrowboats so spent about 6 months researching (not long enough), before finally buying a boat for 25k that was originally up for 35k. If I knew then what I know now I would have spent at least 10k more and got a mortgage instead of a loan.

 

Anyway I would advise you take someone with you who really knows their stuff to give it a once over before you make an offer. Find out where all the pumps, hatches etc are and how to access them and expect the unexpected!

 

You've made a great start coming here for advice. Best of luck.

 

Danny

[cloggy]

My ten pence worth. Look at the size of the shower as a lot of boats showers where built to touring caravan size, which is fine for the odd shower but when it's all the time they soon feel very restrictive. Same with hand basin.

[LouBLou]

Thanks again peeps, Im going to wait a little while, do a bit more research, save a bit more cash/get a better deal on a loan You have all been great, when i can have my own boat, I'll be back with pictures and celebrations ))

 

x

[patty-ann]

Just keep returning here and asking the questions, people know so much and I have learnt lots, gud luck with hunt,

[Neil2]

Thanks again peeps, Im going to wait a little while, do a bit more research, save a bit more cash/get a better deal on a loan You have all been great, when i can have my own boat, I'll be back with pictures and celebrations ))

 

x

I suspect I speak for most of us when I say that is a very sensible way forward.

 

And whilst you are saving up you can use the time to go and look at lots of boats, it will be far more productive than internet surfing.

[Clifford]

Keep reading up about boats, and go and look at some even before you are ready to buy. You'll soon build up a picture of what's possible and what's important to you.

 

When you eventually get a boat, you'll choose with your heart. We nearly all did, if we're honest. But you'll be choosing BETWEEN boats that are all suitable for you, because after a bit of learning and looking around, your head will reject most of the "bad but cute" ones straight away.

 

Don't ignore the techy stuff. On the land, you can dismiss techy stuff as 'just for nerds' but on a boat, techy stuff is 'just for anyone who wants to keep the lights and telly on and stay warm (and even dry)'. Unless you have enough money to pay professionals to look after you.

 

Enjoy the research, think of it as daydreaming, not a chore.

[Bigredbus4468]

First post on the forum so here goes. Really pleased the Op asked her questions as we are considering selling the house, buying a live aboard and living off my Navy pension. Is 5k enough for full running costs including diesel mooring blacking licence BSC insurance?

[Southern Star]

First post on the forum so here goes. Really pleased the Op asked her questions as we are considering selling the house, buying a live aboard and living off my Navy pension. Is 5k enough for full running costs including diesel mooring blacking licence BSC insurance?

I don't actually own a boat yet, so I will be willing to stand corrected by anybody who does but my own pre-purchase research would suggest that 5k per annum would be more than enough for the "average" boat. A permanent mooring would be the most expensive cost at around £2,500, licence and insurance about £1,000, blacking and BSC maybe £500 per annum.

 

They are standing costs, diesel is a variable cost so it really depends on what use you make of the boat. Of course, if you cruise continuously then you will use a lot of diesel, but then again you won't have to pay the mooring fee.

[Ray T]

First post on the forum so here goes. Really pleased the Op asked her questions as we are considering selling the house, buying a live aboard and living off my Navy pension. Is 5k enough for full running costs including diesel mooring blacking licence BSC insurance?

 

Hi and welcome.

 

Our boat is a 45 footer and resides in a marina. We are not continuous cruisers.

 

Costs: Per year:

 

Marina fees: circa £2,100.

Licence: £760 ish, can't remember exact figure.

Insurance: £162.00

 

River canal rescue £176.00 (Gold service, not obligatory)

Electricity, mains hook up: £83.96 (we don't use a lot)

BSC, every 4 years: £156.00

 

We have a cassette type loo but if you have a pump out there will be emptying costs too.

 

Blacking every 2 years (average £7.50 per foot)

 

We also keep a slush fund for emergencies, of £2,000.

 

On top of the above there is food, diesel, running costs, servicing etc.

 

From my point of view your £5K is beginning to look a bit "tight".

If you do not live in a marina there will not be those costs but you will have a more expensive licence (I think), increased diesel for power generation.

 

A CCer will be along shortly to help here, I don't doubt.

 

Have a look here: http://www.canaljunction.com/boat/liveaboard.htm

 

and here: http://livingonanarrowboat.co.uk/newsletter-archive/2014-04-20-newsletter-wide-beam-mooring-problems/?inf_contact_key=18aca88860f474489ef17f883cdcdfb01738b5883cef6553ae648475d07c18f9

Edited May 22, 2014 by Ray T

[Alan de Enfield]

First post on the forum so here goes. Really pleased the Op asked her questions as we are considering selling the house, buying a live aboard and living off my Navy pension. Is 5k enough for full running costs including diesel mooring blacking licence BSC insurance?

 

It would help if you could identify if you are looking for a permanent residential mooring, a 'leisure mooring' and what part of the country you are talking about.

 

A residential mooring in London could be in excess of £10,000 per year whilst a residential mooring in Newark will be about £4000 and a lesiure mooring will be £2300.

 

£5000 will be marginal but possible depending on where you want a mooring and waht type of mooring you need.

[John Williamson 1955]

First post on the forum so here goes. Really pleased the Op asked her questions as we are considering selling the house, buying a live aboard and living off my Navy pension. Is 5k enough for full running costs including diesel mooring blacking licence BSC insurance?

Possibly, depending on where you want to be moored. Residential moorings in London are costing up to £10k per year. Similar in Birmingham are about £2k. If you don't have shore power, count on a fiver a day for generator fuel if you live aboard.

 

I'd also be dubious about selling the house. Renting it out will pay for a bank loan to buy a boat and leave you a plan "B" for when you can't cope with boating any longer for whatever reason. House prices are going up almost as quickly as boats lose value.

[Bigredbus4468]

Thanks John. Wouldn't consider London other than a visit. We thought selling the house would provide new boat plus nest egg. Would probably rent when no longer able to live aboard. If boats loose value so quickly, 2nd hand a better option?

[Alan de Enfield]

, 2nd hand a better option?

 

My opinion (others are apparently available) is that until you have had considerable use of a boat you won't know what you NEED (as opposed to what you think you WANT).

The first thing to remember is that a boats not a 'floating house', you do not have unlimited water or electricity and that all waste (including toilet) has to be removed from the boat - it does not just flush away and thats he end of it.

 

I'd strongly suggest buying a youngish 'middle priced' £30-£40k second hand boat that has got everything you think you need, after a couple of years and finding out what it has you dont need, and what it doesnt have that you do need, you can sell it (without too much depreciation) and buy the boat of your dreams.

 

Boats are like cars - you can buy a brand new Ford for £30,000, or a 2nd hand Rolls Royce for £30,000, the difference is the build quality.

 

Of similar (if not more so) importance is maintenance - if the Rolls Royce had been banged about and the engine not serviced, the paint flaking off and the brakes worn out it could in fact be a 'worse buy' than a very cheap but well maintained Skoda

 

Spend some time. and then some more time planning, then plan again before committing.

Ask questions - they have all been asked before and generally you will get a variety of answers so you can make your own decisions.

[Southern Star]

 

 

I'd also be dubious about selling the house. Renting it out will pay for a bank loan to buy a boat and leave you a plan "B" for when you can't cope with boating any longer for whatever reason. House prices are going up almost as quickly as boats lose value.

But only until interest rates start moving upwards and then houses are going to collapse in value. I've been there before, I bought a house in 1990 and then spent the next ten years wishing I hadn't.

 

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/first-time-buyers-advised-not-to-bother-2013120281586

[John Williamson 1955]

But only until interest rates start moving upwards and then houses are going to collapse in value. I've been there before, I bought a house in 1990 and then spent the next ten years wishing I hadn't.

 

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/first-time-buyers-advised-not-to-bother-2013120281586

The plan B part for me is mainly owning a house to which I can return on fairly short notice, and while there have been periods of high interest (Remember the day when the mortgage interest rate hit 25% APR from the common 12 -15% of the day? I do.) over most longish periods, house, land and flat prices beat general inflation and savings interest rates, so putting away the price of a house now is no guarantee that you will be able to buy one in the future.

 

So far, I've been "lucky" in that I've been able to buy near the bottom of the market and wait out the crashes. I've not made much profit, and the taxman had a lot of what I have made, but I now own almost all of a house. I have, however, had a succession of weatherproof roofs over my head for a reasonable overall cost.

 

I do hope you're not quoting the Daily Mash as being an authority on anything other than humour....

[Alan de Enfield]

John Williamson 1955, on 22 May 2014 - 10:47 PM, said:John Williamson 1955, on 22 May 2014 - 10:47 PM, said:

over most longish periods, house, land and flat prices beat general inflation and savings interest rates,

 

Thats certainly true of land

 

Edit to remove unecessary information

Edited May 22, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[mark99]

Hi

 

I will have an 18000 budget for a liveaboard. I am completely new to narrowboats, but obviously have been trying to do some research.

 

Would appreciate any help

Lou

 

 

Hi Lou,

 

Have you ever taken a hol in a narrowboat (or any boat) or stayed on one for a few days?

[Bigredbus4468]

My opinion (others are apparently available) is that until you have had considerable use of a boat you won't know what you NEED (as opposed to what you think you WANT).

The first thing to remember is that a boats not a 'floating house', you do not have unlimited water or electricity and that all waste (including toilet) has to be removed from the boat - it does not just flush away and thats he end of it.

 

I'd strongly suggest buying a youngish 'middle priced' £30-£40k second hand boat that has got everything you think you need, after a couple of years and finding out what it has you dont need, and what it doesnt have that you do need, you can sell it (without too much depreciation) and buy the boat of your dreams

If I buy as you said I could spend money modifying providing I buy the right boat.

 

We have caravaned before and rallied with no facilities, and with those you have to dispose of all the grey water too.

 

An ex submariner, I understand the need to requirement to monitor and ration water and electricity lol

[John V]

Hi Lou......No boat advice as you seem to have been supplied enough already.

 

Just one thing, if your son is not as keen as you are then IMO, Forget it. His attitude and enthusiasm will make or break the project. Good luck.

[muddywaters]

"Loublou" - Don't tell me Andy Pandy is still on the telly???

 

My initial thoughts FWIW. First, when you say your budget is £18,000 do you mean that is the absolute maximum you can afford to spend, and have you factored in the costs of licencing, mooring and insurance, and getting the boat lifted out and surveyed? Second, it is an absolute certainty that buying at this end of the market, however thoroughly you check over your intended purchase, there will be a host of things you have to spend money on almost immediately. So, you really need to keep a fair amount in reserve, I would say maybe £2-3k to avoid sleepless nights.

 

But the main thing is, the £15-20,000 sector of the market is a scary place these days. It's an oft repeated piece of advice but the best thing you can do is spend a lot of time visiting brokers boats for sale so you start to get some idea of what you can get for your money. There are loads and loads of sellers out there trying to unload their problems on to someone else, these are the ones you will hopefully avoid. Prepare to be disappointed/deflated on a regular basis. Scores of boat owners lose interest and skimp on maintenance but still expect to get back what they paid for their boat. Many of them are on another planet in this respect.

 

Occasionally you will find something approaching a genuine bargain, but it may very well not be exactly what you had in mind. That's another reason why you must not blow the whole budget in one go. Once you start to learn about power, generating it and conserving it, you'll understand this better.

 

At some point you will need the help of a good surveyor, and whilst I know there are many on this forum who don't agree, an inexperienced buyer not having a proper survey is trusting to fate just a little too much. The reason many don't, and live to regret it, is because a good surveyor will charge around £10-12 a foot (of boat length) and you have to pay to have the boat taken out of the water on top of that.

 

Having said all this, we all know what it feels like to catch the boating bug, and I wouldn't want to dampen anyone's enthusiasm for it, just make sure you try to keep at least one foot on the ground.

 

 

Good points and being in a similar position to the OP with a similar budget here's what I have done.

Deducted an amount from my budget for actually buying a boat to cover any additional expenses.

Although I'm in a position where I don't need to sell the house until after I move onto a boat.

So what I get for my half of the sale of the house (it was left between my sister and I in my mums will and needs to be sold and the proceeds split between the two of us, can go into the bank as emergency funds.

Only difference between me and the OP is it will be just me living on the boat