£18000 budget first time liveaboard wanted. Key things to ask.

[LouBLou]

Hi

 

I will have an 18000 budget for a liveaboard. I am completely new to narrowboats, but obviously have been trying to do some research. I want a more outdoor lifestyle for my son (15) and myself. I have seen how important regular blacking and boat service are when looking for a new home. Im a bit confused about the electrics, to be honest. The boat would be moored during the week and taken out weekends. With a 15 year old he will want his laptop, small tv, fridge. I have viewed a well looked after 42ft (i know not big, but had plenty of storage and 2 separate sleeping spaces (bedroom and front room) the electrics were 12v, The couple said they hadn't needed a fridge as was draining the batteries (1 starter, 2 leisure). What would be my options and rough cost of running 2 laptops, 2 phones, a fridge and small tv? mifi? What else would you look for when boat shopping? Is the age of the boat a big deal?

 

Would appreciate any help

Lou

[John Williamson 1955]

If you have 240 volts available from a shore supply while you're moored, then the cost will be minimal. If you need to run a generator, allow about a pound an hour for fuel and bear in mind the 20:00 until 08:00 period when it's generally forbidden to run a generator of boat engine for battery charging. Some places limit it to no more than an hour at a time.

 

From 12 volts, laptops will draw between 3 and 10 amps, depending on screen size and speed, phones will draw half an amp for two hours or so while charging, mifi the same, the fridge and TV will be your biggest drain, but the actual drain will vary widely between models, with 240 volt TVs running off an inverter drawing most of all.

[Alan de Enfield]

Welcome to the forum and as is 'oft quoted' you have come to the right place.

 

Just a suggestion :

 

As your son is 15 then you obiously need to be based (moored) in one locality for the week for schooling etc. This pretty much rules out 'Continuous Cruising' and leaves you with finding a residential mooring.

 

Residential moorings ARE out there but are generally not easy to find, and when you do they are expensive. Some folks use a 'leisure' mooring as residential and just 'keep their heads down', but with money being tight Marinas (and the local council re Council Tax) are looking for any opportunity to increase incomes.

 

You dont say where you are but a residential mooring in London may well be £10,000 a year whilst in Newark (Notts) its £4000.

 

My suggestion would be - before commiting to leaving your house and buying a boat - have a look at what moorings are available in your locality.

 

If you are in a marina then the question of elecric doesnt really arise - you can plug in and have your normal 220v TV, frdge etc (but possibly not a washing machine or tumble dryer - but most marinas would have them in the services block)

 

Age is a BIG problem, but only if the boat has not been looked after, serviced and maintained. Its like a car - a well maintained 'old' car may be better than a poorly maintaned newer car,

 

Good luck and keep asking questions.

[LouBLou]

Amazing, cheers guys!

 

We will be moored in the Oxfordshire area, have found couple of 'leisure moorings' where people live. One is a private marina and they have more facilities, and lots of families there, but is 100 more a month than the other, where it would be be a case of keeping your head down.

 

I asked about the year of the boat as in my price range there are boats from 1976 - 90's The one I had my eye on is 89. which seems good. Is owned by a lovely couple who have well looked after it well and lived on her for 5 years. I just need to wait a couple of weeks to apply for my loan. So thought I should brush up a bit before then as experian seem to think should go through now )) and make sure im sure!!

 

So, tell me the downside of living on a narrowboat, what should I be prepared for?

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

So, tell me the downside of living on a narrowboat, what should I be prepared for?

 

You asked !!

Having a 15 year old son will help tho'

 

Carrying 25 kg bags of coal to the boat

Carrying 25 kg+ gas cylinders to the boat

Carrying 25kg toilet cassettes to the elsan emptying station every couple of days - unless you have a pumpout.

Water tank needs filling (once a week ?)

Water supply to your mooring freezes and you cannot get water.

The Elsan emptying point freezes and you cannot empty the cassette.

 

Its a very confined space and you will get on each others 'nerves'. If you consider that you 'lose' 6 feet of the back, and 6 feet off the front, your total living space (Kitchen, toilet/shower, lounge and bedroom) will be only 36 feet x 6 feet. Its not a lot and no where to escape when the teenage hormones get going.

 

Maintenance, mooring, running costs £3000-£5000 per year

 

On the upside - being on a Narrowboat is 'very nice'

[LouBLou]

Thank you

 

Theres just something in me that needs to do it. Fingers crossed for the loan then Thank goodness for 15 year old sons (I think he'll be great at lifting and carrying or a sack truck when it's my turn. Plus ive found a great place to come and ask lots of questions when im stuck, lol. Luckily he is really into cycling so when hes peeved can go off along the towpath Will have to look for some roof rack thing for his bike...

 

Big thanks

Lou

[bottle]

Hi Lou and welcome.

 

Just three things before you buy the boat, get it fully surveyed, fully surveyed and again fully surveyed.

 

Especially as at the moment you do not seem to know much about boats, this is not a criticism just that you will need to be very careful.

 

Also get the head into gear and not the heart, yes you will fall in love with the boat but there are so many things that can be wrong with a boat, you do need to sure it will not cost thousands to put right.

 

Definition of BOAT... Bring Out Another Thousand

 

Have a contingency fund because it is almost guaranteed that something will go wrong in the first year..

 

Good luck

 

 

Edit: spellcheck/predictive text.

Edited May 17, 2014 by bottle

[John Williamson 1955]

 

Its a very confined space and you will get on each others 'nerves'. If you consider that you 'lose' 6 feet of the back, and 6 feet off the front, your total living space (Kitchen, toilet/shower, lounge and bedroom) will be only 36 feet x 6 feet. Its not a lot and no where to escape when the teenage hormones get going.

 

Get a cheaper boat and a butty?

 

To the OP, welcome to the club.

Thank you

 

Theres just something in me that needs to do it. Fingers crossed for the loan then Thank goodness for 15 year old sons (I think he'll be great at lifting and carrying or a sack truck when it's my turn. Plus ive found a great place to come and ask lots of questions when im stuck, lol. Luckily he is really into cycling so when hes peeved can go off along the towpath Will have to look for some roof rack thing for his bike...

 

Big thanks

Lou

Depending on your stern design, make a bike rack with a couple of pieces of aluminium angle and some wood. Or get a folder and keep it in the front well.

[Neil2]

"Loublou" - Don't tell me Andy Pandy is still on the telly???

 

My initial thoughts FWIW. First, when you say your budget is £18,000 do you mean that is the absolute maximum you can afford to spend, and have you factored in the costs of licencing, mooring and insurance, and getting the boat lifted out and surveyed? Second, it is an absolute certainty that buying at this end of the market, however thoroughly you check over your intended purchase, there will be a host of things you have to spend money on almost immediately. So, you really need to keep a fair amount in reserve, I would say maybe £2-3k to avoid sleepless nights.

 

But the main thing is, the £15-20,000 sector of the market is a scary place these days. It's an oft repeated piece of advice but the best thing you can do is spend a lot of time visiting brokers boats for sale so you start to get some idea of what you can get for your money. There are loads and loads of sellers out there trying to unload their problems on to someone else, these are the ones you will hopefully avoid. Prepare to be disappointed/deflated on a regular basis. Scores of boat owners lose interest and skimp on maintenance but still expect to get back what they paid for their boat. Many of them are on another planet in this respect.

 

Occasionally you will find something approaching a genuine bargain, but it may very well not be exactly what you had in mind. That's another reason why you must not blow the whole budget in one go. Once you start to learn about power, generating it and conserving it, you'll understand this better.

 

At some point you will need the help of a good surveyor, and whilst I know there are many on this forum who don't agree, an inexperienced buyer not having a proper survey is trusting to fate just a little too much. The reason many don't, and live to regret it, is because a good surveyor will charge around £10-12 a foot (of boat length) and you have to pay to have the boat taken out of the water on top of that.

 

Having said all this, we all know what it feels like to catch the boating bug, and I wouldn't want to dampen anyone's enthusiasm for it, just make sure you try to keep at least one foot on the ground.

 

 

[LouBLou]

All great advice and am loving the warm welcome

 

Im only allowed to take out and 18000 loan, partly due to silly little bits of credit, but will have my monthly salary (just have no savings). This is why I thought the original boat i had seen may be better as they are willing to let go for 15000 instead of 19500 as they a little one now so on a bigger boat and paying 2 moorings. But i messed up my loan, so am going to have to wait a few more weeks for bits to clear to make my credit look a lil better so might be too late for that one and the previous survey had said needs the stern tube assembly replacing and over hauled, but all other bits had been completed. Is that an expensive job?

 

Trying very hard to keep a foot on the ground

PS. love the definition of BOAT My dad is having kittens over my new adventure, lol, that will make him smile!

[Alan de Enfield]

You will need savings (or more credit), it doesnt stop with buying the boat.

 

You are probably looking at nearer £1000 for a survey and lift out / lift in fees

When was the boat last 'blacked' (it needs doing every 2 or 3 years) It will cost £10 per foot (ie a 40 foot boat £400)

You will need to insure the boat - liveaboard insurance is more expensive that leisure insurance - maybe allow £200-£300

Is the boat licenced (cost depends on length) but wil be around the £800 mark.

Does the boat have a BSS (like a car MOT), how long has it got to run ?

Mooring fees ? (you have found a mooring so you know how much that is)

 

Personally I'd ensure that I had at least £3000 and preferably £5000 available in the first year for 'running costs' -particularly as its your home - if the plumbing bursts, the toilet breaks, the windows leak or the engine 'blows up' - you cannot just walk away, leave it and 'go home' - it IS your home.

 

There is just as much (if not more) that can go wrong on a boat as there is in a house.

 

I know its all very negative, but you do need to be aware and having someone take off the rose tinted specs can help.

 

Dont initially overstretch the finances.

[ditchcrawler]

Amazing, cheers guys!

 

We will be moored in the Oxfordshire area, have found couple of 'leisure moorings' where people live. One is a private marina and they have more facilities, and lots of families there, but is 100 more a month than the other, where it would be be a case of keeping your head down.

 

The way things are going I don't think keeping your head down if this is your son and your home is an option See http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=66701.

 

A mooring is going to cost you a fair bit per year. We will be leaving our mooring at Napton in July and I don't think you would find much cheaper than that, but its a bit of a way from Oxford.

Edited May 17, 2014 by ditchcrawler

[LouBLou]

Good plan... I may wait for a year if this one doesn't work out for me

 

The monthly fees not so much a prob, altho they are 270 a month Id be financially better off month to month as a rent a place at minute, is just having the cash to buy one (and a bit over for peace of mind)

 

The boat I had my eye on has been regularly blacked. Done last year and new anodes. BSC until 2016

 

bevies in the garden today

cheers ditchcrawler The 'heads down' mooring was very pretty and in a fab location, the other one very nice too, but if i can manage to pull this off I think your right and we'd be better off paying a little more and taking the safer option. Will google maps napton, we're not originally from this way, so no idea, lol. That is the time we'd be looking to be 'moving in'. Altho i wont know if i can have the funding for the boat for couple of weeks.... more waiting....

[Tuscan]

With a 15 year old you are going to need a boat with 240 so you can run the things he/you will be used to TV, laptop, phone chargers, fridge etc. I would chose a marina by the number of existing live a boards, the phone/internet connection many marinas have lousy phone/internet reception and ease of access to school, shops etc by public transport unless you want to be a taxi.

[LouBLou]

fantastic, a decision made, the marina it is!They did have wifi too, i love how i pretend its all for my son

[bottle]

Slightly tangential.

 

15 year old, will be taking lots of exams in the next year, going on to further education or a job.

 

May be better to wait that year at least to get all the finances and the 15 year old sorted.

 

It will also give you lots of time to look at lots of boats.

 

the previous survey had said needs the stern tube assembly replacing and over hauled,

 

Depends on what it means by replacing and why would it need to overhauled if it is being replaced, could be expensive boat our of the water etc.

 

Hopefully someone will pick this up that knows approximate pricing.

 

The boat I had my eye on has been regularly blacked. Done last year and new anodes. BSC until 2016

 

So BSC two years ago and blacked last year, if the same boat, why black and not have the stern tube done. (thinking aloud)

 

Edit: BSC does not check the state of the hull, just certain equipment inside the boat

Edited May 17, 2014 by bottle

[LouBLou]

true true.... Has my dad been on here and paid you all?

 

Interesting point about the boat being out of t water. The survey said replacing or an over-haul of tube stern assembly.

[John Williamson 1955]

Replacing or repairing the sterngear won't be cheap, as it may involve welding in a new sterntube and possibly a new rudder tube while the boat is out of the water. Add it to the cost of blacking and new anodes while the boat is out of the water will take you back up to the original asking price, and maybe a bit more.

 

I'd be looking at other boats while I was waiting for the loan to sort itself out, personally. I know that if this boat had needed similar work, I wouldn't be sitting in it now, enjoying the sunny weather.

[bottle]

Sounds like a sensible man, your Dad.

[LouBLou]

cheers, am looking just getting a little bit overwhelmed weighing up the pros n cons of diff boats against each other. that had just been my fave is all...

 

Its great to hear advise though from people who know what they are talking about, i'll get there even if it has to be next year

 

x

and Im not telling him that We are only here for a short time, lifes for living But yeah, if my situation isn't right, I willll wait lol

[Chalky]

If the stern tube is worn then it's either seen a lot of use or has been badly aligned. This could imply that other mechanical parts could be worn as well. Do you know what engine and gearbox it has?

 

Based on the age of the boat how many of the other parts have been replaced? Is it still using the original pumps etc? A live aboard boat is going to put greater strain on lots of parts than a holiday boat and this will result in the need for increased maintainance.

[Mendip-Locks]

Good Luck LouBLou, what a great set of forum members that have contributed so far, all in the right spirit. Sounds like you've got your head screwed on the right way, and here's to your dad to keeping a watchful eye!

 

Ade

Edited May 17, 2014 by Mendip-Locks

[Paul G2]

Hi Lou,

 

This conversation is all over the charts, so I just thought I would throw in a few random thoughts.

 

There are frequent scam attempts in the NB market. If you run across what appears to be an incredible deal, ask for help on this forum and you'll get immediate help/advice from people here that could save you a lot of grief. Beware the ebay offering of an unbelievable price on an incredible boat with a seller who inherited the boat and is so grief stricken s/he just wants to get rid of it cheaply. That particular scam is an attempt to get your PayPal login information.

 

A few weeks, or even a few months, is quite insignificant in terms of selling a boat.Boats can sometimes be on the market for years before they sell. If you think that you have found the boat for you, the sellers would probably love to hear of your feelings, especially if they now have two boats. Be upfront with the sellers and explain that you need a couple paychecks to pay off a couple small charge card accounts, but then it should be clear sailing for the loan. They will either welcome you with open arms and try to nurture you as buyers, or they'll politely tell you to come back when you have money in hand. Either way, they will know that you want their boat, and they want to sell a whole lot more than you want to buy.

 

Showing an interest in the boat will give you a reason to do a detailed inspection of it. You seem like a nice person, all you'd have to do is ask and you could easily get someone from this forum who really knows their stuff about NBs to accompany you on an inspection tour. There's a logical sequence of events to follow and one of your first steps is to get someone who knows what's what to look at the boat with you.

 

One good thing about having financial limitations is that you are in a position to nicely say, "Take it or leave it." when negotiating a price. "I wish I could pay more, but I simply don't have any more money to spend." is such a charming ultimatum, don't you think? Anyway, the point is, now is not too soon to let the people know that you are interested in their boat, and to get someone to look at the boat with you.

 

You should look through some of the threads here in equipment about electricity and batteries and solar power and study up on electrical systems on boats so that you know what you are getting into, electrical-wise. There's nothing on any boat that can't be altered or added, but it is an important budget item and you need a basic understanding of the various systems and their components.

 

Thank you

 

Theres just something in me that needs to do it. Fingers crossed for the loan then Thank goodness for 15 year old sons (I think he'll be great at lifting and carrying or a sack truck when it's my turn. Plus ive found a great place to come and ask lots of questions when im stuck, lol. Luckily he is really into cycling so when hes peeved can go off along the towpath Will have to look for some roof rack thing for his bike...

 

Big thanks

Lou

 

Uhhhhhhh - The boy is 15y.o., Mom. The kind of privacy he needs requires you to take to the towpath for a while, not him.

[LouBLou]

Hey This is a fab forum!

 

The engine is a diesel BMC, i have no idea about the gearbox, but are great questions for me to ask. I viewed the boat and said i wanted it (tut tut), as 2 weeks before had had the loan in my bank (but cancelled in during the cooling off period as was nothing at time) then when i reapplied it was declined!!! arghhh, lol The couple said they would hold the boat for me if was a case of waiting for my balance to clear after t loan... But i couldn't be sure i would be accepted for another loan, so felt unfair to let them hold it. we said we would keep each other updated...and i thought i should be a little less hot headed, lol so am doing a bit of homework

 

Hahaha, the boy is 15.... eeekkkkkk bury head in the sand!!! He will have t bedroom, my room is front room

 

Really appreciate all this help )

[DeanS]

Welcome Lou.

 

We bought our first boat 3yrs ago. It was the first boat we ever visited, and we fell in love with it. I'm a bit of a handyman.

We have 3 kids (2 are teenagers..1 nearly there). Our boat was 57ft, and involved making up the beds every evening, and then changing it to a living space in the day. Not ideal. After 2yrs, we knew we were in it for the long haul, so we sold it, and took out another loan, and bought a widebeam sailaway, which I fitted out. One teen is off to Uni, so we gain in space...knocked down a wall, and extended the lounge.

 

It sounds like you're making a life changing decision.

Boating is wonderful, if certain things fall into place, but can be hell if some things dont.

 

For example.

 

If you moor in a marina with elec shorepower, you can have a telly in every room, a microwave, a normal small fridge, hair drier, game consoles, hair straighteners, bright lights, washing machine, dishwasher, etc etc etc. It makes for a good start to boating. You can just hook up a £50 battery charger to your batteries, and your water pump will keep running, 12V lights etc will be fine.

 

but....

 

when you leave the marina...it all disappears, and you need to have...

 

1. An engine that runs ok

2. An alternator charging your boat batteries.

3. Probably some new batteries in place.

4. Large enough water tank/toilet cassette or pump out.

5. A coal stove for heating

6. A spare water pump.

7. Some basic tools.

8. Know where the fuses are.

 

Flat batteries can cause depression.

Being cold can cause depression.

Being without lights can cause depression.

 

All are easily avoided