Engine life.

[FidoDido]

Blimey

 

My two coolant pipe fails were due to poor installation. One the pipe from the oil cooler, which as it exits straight at an engine mount, had been bodged by using a piece of copper, which wore through. An offset bowman rubber cap is now in place, meaning it clears the engine mount. The other was that the skin tank to heat exchanger pipe was too wide a bore, and leaked. Upon replacing this, the engineer forgot to tighten a hose he temporarily took off. Neither the fault of the engine really, but the pressure in the system popped both pipes off, dumping coolant everywhere, and in the case of the oil cooler hose, meant the engine got hot enough to stall. It has smoked a bit ever since, especially when cold.ive been through several sets of heater plugs. The last set were blown by a RCR engineer insisting on 15 seconds on the plugs before stating. It always starts on 2-3 seconds. The plugs burnt out. I have a spare set now. NGK Y107R, which most motor factors sell for 8 quid each, rather than the 40 quid each diperk sell theirs for.

 

Mine uses about 1ml per hour of oil. Not too bad really. It also burns about 2L/hr diesel, which is a bit more than most it seems from reading on here. It has almost no air filter. Just some thin cotton on a metal gauze. Would like to find a paper filter which fits inside, as this doesn't look like much protection.

 

How often do you check valve clearances? Manual not very good at explaining these things. In fact a waste of forty quid IMO.

 

180F is about 85 deg C, and it never goes above that even if flat out on a river for hours, so I was surprised when the RCR chap said they run hot. Sounds fairly normal for a diesel to me?

 

He also told me I never need to change the gearbox oil, as it doesn't really do much.. PRM160. Think I'll change it anyway, as that sounds highly unlikely. It must do something, and oil breaks down..

Edited May 13, 2014 by FidoDido

[Keeping Up]

The usual air filter is supposed to use foam about half an inch thick, open cell foam of course.

 

I've simply asked the engineer to check the valve clearances whenever he's had the rocker cover off or done any other major repairs, so about once every 500 hours probably. He always had to refer to the manual because the sequence was a bit unusual, he said.

 

PRM say the gearbox oil should be changed whenever the engine oil is changed. I reckon that's over zealous, I've always changed it every other time. My first gearbox was a Borg Warner, it lasted less than 3 years. The PRM Delta that Perkins supplied as a replacement turned out to be a cobbled together pack of spare parts that always leaked, at one time it was so bad that I kept a can underneath it to collect the oil so I could pour it back into the top again twice a day. Eventually I gave up because it had also worn out and I bought a PRM150. It has needed all its seals replacing a couple of times but I the past year it has needed the selector shaft seal to be changed at increasingly frequent intervals until they were only lasting a couple of days and the box was losing a pint of oil per hour. It seems that the housing behind the O-ring has somehow worn away so a longer spacer has had to be made up, to compress the washer more. That will hopefully provide a temporary solution until I can get the whole engine/gearbox setup replaced.

[Felshampo]

In a similar thread ( http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=66303 ) the consensus was that engine hours were hard to relate to engine wear if the maintenance schedule was not known. It was advocated that testing the oil was then only way to judge the state of an engine. But how many people get that checked before they buy a narrowboat?

[Ray T]

< snip> That will hopefully provide a temporary solution until I can get the whole engine/gearbox setup replaced.

 

Borrowed from another thread and altered:

 

"You need gearbox repair man".

 

http://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/

Edited May 14, 2014 by Ray T

[magnetman]

I am intrigued about the idea of a lab test of the oil.

 

If it was changed recently and the engine then run for a few hours would the analysis show up engine faults?

 

I suppose blow-by could be proved and maybe bits of metal in suspension but can it really show if an engine had been cared for?

[Felshampo]

I am intrigued about the idea of a lab test of the oil.

If it was changed recently and the engine then run for a few hours would the analysis show up engine faults?

I suppose blow-by could be proved and maybe bits of metal in suspension but can it really show if an engine had been cared for?

Apparently so!

 

"It doesn't cost much to have the oil tested, so If I was looking at a boat with no history, or not much history, I'd have the oil analysed and assume the worst if the results were negative. Neil2"

 

"The first boat I bought had an oil analysis done as part of the survey. It revealed that the wrong type of oil had been used at the last service, but seemingly had done no harm in the short time it had been in there. Catweasel"

Edited May 14, 2014 by Felshampo

[Proper Job]

Oil analysis can only be useful in that it can determine the levels of carbon, particulates, metal etc. It can give a reasonable age for the oil and combine the two together they can calculate what would be reasonable levels of expected contamination.

 

Whether it has any merit in a small NB engine is questionable. There are probably a lot more useful pointers to indicate an engine in poor condition.

 

 

Back in my big engine day's we never changed the lub oil. There was to much of it (several thousands of litres). We would test the oil to ensure that its properties were good, then filter and centrifuge it and add any 'additives' that were required to ensure that it would perform in spec.

 

The only time you might add oil was when someone failed to notice that the water seal had gone on the oil/water separator had gone and mistakenly pump oil over the side

[jelunga]

Blimey

 

My two coolant pipe fails were due to poor installation. One the pipe from the oil cooler, which as it exits straight at an engine mount, had been bodged by using a piece of copper, which wore through. An offset bowman rubber cap is now in place, meaning it clears the engine mount. The other was that the skin tank to heat exchanger pipe was too wide a bore, and leaked. Upon replacing this, the engineer forgot to tighten a hose he temporarily took off. Neither the fault of the engine really, but the pressure in the system popped both pipes off, dumping coolant everywhere, and in the case of the oil cooler hose, meant the engine got hot enough to stall. It has smoked a bit ever since, especially when cold.ive been through several sets of heater plugs. The last set were blown by a RCR engineer insisting on 15 seconds on the plugs before stating. It always starts on 2-3 seconds. The plugs burnt out. I have a spare set now. NGK Y107R, which most motor factors sell for 8 quid each, rather than the 40 quid each diperk sell theirs for.

 

Mine uses about 1ml per hour of oil. Not too bad really. It also burns about 2L/hr diesel, which is a bit more than most it seems from reading on here. It has almost no air filter. Just some thin cotton on a metal gauze. Would like to find a paper filter which fits inside, as this doesn't look like much protection.

 

How often do you check valve clearances? Manual not very good at explaining these things. In fact a waste of forty quid IMO.

 

180F is about 85 deg C, and it never goes above that even if flat out on a river for hours, so I was surprised when the RCR chap said they run hot. Sounds fairly normal for a diesel to me?

 

He also told me I never need to change the gearbox oil, as it doesn't really do much.. PRM160. Think I'll change it anyway, as that sounds highly unlikely. It must do something, and oil breaks down..

Very wise. Mine dumped irs sump oil in bilge when an "engineer" badly rerouted rhe shmp breather so it kinked. Pressure blew the oul out.

The children sent by RCR to assist insisted it was a badly fitted oil filter. But they humoured me and just fetched me some engine oil (of the wrong spec) and that got me going again.

Does smije when going from ahead to full astefn but unburnt fuel ragher than oil.

Oil analysis can only be useful in that it can determine the levels of carbon, particulates, metal etc. It can give a reasonable age for the oil and combine the two together they can calculate what would be reasonable levels of expected contamination.

 

Whether it has any merit in a small NB engine is questionable. There are probably a lot more useful pointers to indicate an engine in poor condition.

 

 

Back in my big engine day's we never changed the lub oil. There was to much of it (several thousands of litres). We would test the oil to ensure that its properties were good, then filter and centrifuge it and add any 'additives' that were required to ensure that it would perform in spec.

 

The only time you might add oil was when someone failed to notice that the water seal had gone on the oil/water separator had gone and mistakenly pump oil over the side

Mm that sound a marine install. I used to operate Doxfords with alfa- Laval separators.

[Proper Job]

Mm that sound a marine install. I used to operate Doxfords with alfa- Laval separators.

 

Alfa's were pretty universal in my day

 

B&W, Sultzers and MAN's were my babies

[jelunga]

 

Alfa's were pretty universal in my day

 

B&W, Sultzers and MAN's were my babies

Was on one ship with twin Sulzers driving single shaft through big magnetic clutches. Great for manouverng. One engine running ahead one running astern and just use clutch to turn prop kne way or the other.

Less stress than Doxford where you had to stop engine and re start running astern or ahead. Soon ran out of air if the duty engineer cocked up too many starts!

 

P. S the ship with the twin Sulozers was Jelunga!

Edited May 14, 2014 by jelunga

[Felshampo]

Was on one ship with twin Sulzers driving single shaft through big magnetic clutches. Great for manouverng. One engine running ahead one running astern and just use clutch to turn prop kne way or the other.

Less stress than Doxford where you had to stop engine and re start running astern or ahead. Soon ran out of air if the duty engineer cocked up too many starts!

 

P. S the ship with the twin Sulozers was Jelunga!

 

Useful advice for us "New to Boating " types.

[Martin Megson]

In the case of my Lister LPWS 4 it's 3436 hours.

Currently in the capable hands of Richard of this forum.

[Neil2]

I am intrigued about the idea of a lab test of the oil.

 

If it was changed recently and the engine then run for a few hours would the analysis show up engine faults?

 

I suppose blow-by could be proved and maybe bits of metal in suspension but can it really show if an engine had been cared for?

My understanding regarding oil testing is a worn engine can't be disguised by a recent change of oil. But even if it could, how many boats for sale are likely to have just had their oil changed? It's more likely that the oil change is well overdue.

 

And if anyone doubted the value of regular oil changes, particularly with an indirect injection diesel, Meggers tale of woe is something of a wake up call.

[n.b.Goldie]

In the case of my Lister LPWS 4 it's 3436 hours.

Currently in the capable hands of Richard of this forum.

 

The manufacturer, according to my manual, recommends a rebuild at 6000 hours. Martyn Pitman of Marine Power Services once told me he rebuilds many LPWS motors at about 4000 hours mainly due to neglect of oil changes.

 

My own LPWS3 has just done 4100 and is now burning oil, approx half a litre per 50 hours. I have a complete service record for the boat from day 1 and the oil/filter has been changed religiously at 100 hours. Be interesting to see how much toward 6000 hours it gets before serious attention is required :-)

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler