Gas water heaters

[BlueStringPudding]

I'm curious: are there any gas powered water heaters for boats that can be turned on and off easily as required (in other words, that don't require a pilot light to be permanently lit)?

 

And do they usually need an electrical supply?

[bizzard]

They all only take a few seconds to fire up from scratch. And the ordinary ones don't have any electrical power supply.

Edited March 23, 2014 by bizzard

[BlueStringPudding]

What's an ordinary one? (As opposed to an extraordinary one)

 

Edited March 23, 2014 by BlueStringPudding

[b0atman]

Wise move switch on when needed, pilot lights seriously use gas

[alan_fincher]

I guess you know, but the Morco is available with different ignition types, based on Piezzo or on batteries.

 

I don't know of one that auto ignites on demand, but that doesn't mean nobody makes one.

[Richard10002]

I'm curious: are there any gas powered water heaters for boats that can be turned on and off easily as required (in other words, that don't require a pilot light to be permanently lit)?

And do they usually need an electrical supply?

My Rinnai fires up in a press and short hold of a button. This lights the pilot light. Then hot water on demand. Another press of the button, and the pilot light is off.

 

I actually use the Rinnai to feed only the shower, and a small tank heated by a Truma Gas heater for washing up, and the shower room handbasin.

 

If it had to be one or the other, it would be the Rinnai.

[BlueStringPudding]

Thanks, Richard. So how and where in the system is the Rinnai plumbed in? Does it feed directly into the hot water pipe or calorifier tank? How come it only feeds the shower?

Edited March 31, 2014 by BlueStringPudding

[MtB]

I had a Rinnai for 12 months before it failed. After wasting £70 on a 'repair kit' for the water section I scrapped it and fitted a proper water heater. A Morco D61. Should have fitted a Morco in the first place but I'm a sucker for trying something new. Best not to unless you can afford to make a Big Mistake.

 

MtB

 

 

(Edit to korrect an incorrekt capitalisation.)

Edited March 31, 2014 by Mike the Boilerman

[BlueStringPudding]

So why is a Morco better?

[bizzard]

Cos its Mor expensive.

[MtB]

Coz they fail less often.

 

That's my expereience anyway.

 

MtB

[The Commodore]

The Morco F11E has Auto ignition, it is more money but it has a higher flow rate of 11ltrs/min and is also room sealed and therefore safer, it really is the water heater we should all be using these days.

[BEngo]

It might be room sealed but the vertical flue can't be shortened, so may protrude to far in many installations and it is fan-flued so you are dependent on the inverter for a safety function. A horizontal flue might work if you can hack the continuous requirement for 240 V and modify the cabin side where the flue passes through. Thread here on fitting www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=24807.

 

Seems to me that an OE fit could be OK but retro fit ain't going to be easy.

 

N

[Psycloud]

We bought the Morco D61E a year ago and it's been fab! 13Kg of gas lasts 3 months and we both shower/wash hair daily (and do the odd bit of cooking but not with the Morco We switch it off between uses as it lights within a few seconds so no point leaving it on

 

http://www.thecaravanwarehouse.co.uk/ShowDetails.asp?id=91

Edited April 2, 2014 by Psycloud

[BlueStringPudding]

I don't want anything that requires an electrical supply. Only for ignition and then only 12v or battery. So sounds like Morcos wouldn't be an option.

 

What does not room sealed mean?

 

And is not room sealed allowed under the BSS regs?

[The Commodore]

It might be room sealed but the vertical flue can't be shortened, so may protrude to far in many installations and it is fan-flued so you are dependent on the inverter for a safety function. A horizontal flue might work if you can hack the continuous requirement for 240 V and modify the cabin side where the flue passes through. Thread here on fitting www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=24807.

 

Seems to me that an OE fit could be OK but retro fit ain't going to be easy.

 

N

 

It is a fanned flue appliance and requires a minimum 10cm of flue or can be extended to 4m, that measurment is from the top of the heat exchanger so in actual fact dependent on the height you fit it at you could have a flue as low as 10cm, fitting horizontal flue also allows for the same sideways movement. Power consumption is a mear 35w when running, zilch when not in use. It is the water heater that is recommended for boats and the safety factor should overcome price and possible installation dificulties.

[alan_fincher]

I don't want anything that requires an electrical supply. Only for ignition and then only 12v or battery. So sounds like Morcos wouldn't be an option.

No - ordinary Morcos like the D61 don't require any electricity to operate.

 

What does not room sealed mean?

It means it is not a "balanced flue" device, (which is a device that takes all its air from outside, and exhausts all its combustion fumes outside, and is designed to physically isolate all that activity from the "room" in which it is installed). Instead something like a Morco D61 has an open flame drawing air from the cabin, and needs to vent effectively through its integral cowl, and then into a dedicated roof mounted flue. Sometimes called "open flued", if it is not properly set up, fumes can get into the cabin - which is why the BSS testers do something called a "spill test" to satisfy themselves that the exhaust gasses are going outside.

 

And is not room sealed allowed under the BSS regs?

Yes they are.

 

At one stage they were not allowed as a new fit in an existing boat, but that is no longer the case. (Exactly the same applied to"open flued" gas fridges for a while, but likewise they are now allowed in the current regs).

 

(If you have a gas hob or gas oven that is another allowed device which is (obviously) "not room sealed"!)

Edited April 2, 2014 by alan_fincher

[MtB]

At one stage they were not allowed as a new fit in an existing boat, but that is no longer the case. (Exactly the same applied to"open flued" gas fridges for a while, but likewise they are now allowed in the current regs).

 

(If you have a gas hob or gas oven that is another allowed device which is (obviously) "not room sealed"!)

 

Getting picky, gas fridges used to be classed as 'flueless' appliances, not 'open flued'. Not sure about new ones now. The flue accessory was optional.

 

An open flued appliance MUST be fitted connected to the flue system specified by the manufacturer. A flueless appliance e.g. a gas fridge, cooker, catalytic wall heater may be installed without a flue. In fact can often only be installed without a flue.

 

 

MtB

[BlueStringPudding]

So is a Morco D61 still better than a Rinnai?

[MtB]

Yes.

 

Different league.

 

 

MtB

[alan_fincher]

Getting picky, gas fridges used to be classed as 'flueless' appliances, not 'open flued'. Not sure about new ones now. The flue accessory was optional.

 

An open flued appliance MUST be fitted connected to the flue system specified by the manufacturer. A flueless appliance e.g. a gas fridge, cooker, catalytic wall heater may be installed without a flue. In fact can often only be installed without a flue.

Pickyness full accepted!

[The Commodore]

if it is not properly set up, fumes can get into the cabin - which is why the BSS testers do something called a "spill test" to satisfy themselves that the exhaust gasses are going outside.

 

 

 

 

All Morco Conventional flued water heaters now have Spilage Safety Devices as standard, as do all manufacturers these days

[BlueStringPudding]

So a quick squizz at Midland Swindlers shows that they stock two Morco D61s. A D61E and aD61B. What's the difference?

[The Commodore]

D61e Electronic ignition (battery), 61d piezo ignition.

[MtB]

 

All Morco Conventional flued water heaters now have Spilage Safety Devices as standard, as do all manufacturers these days

 

Getting picky again, there is no such thing as a 'conventional flued' appliance. Appliances are classed as 'flueless', 'open flued', or 'room sealed'.

 

Best to get the terminology right when offering gas advice...

 

 

MtB