Would a new kind of License help?

[Bee]

A boat licence should be just that, So far as I know there is no requirement to have a mooring in France, Belgium, Holland or Germany to get a licence and the world has not ended. It is the link between the two things that cause so many problems and difficulties. Most people will continue to moor in marinas or whatever they do now and if you want to moor for a week in a town with water and electric provided then pay a few pounds, if you want to tie in the country then so be it. There would be less licence evasion and less animosity between boaters. Why won`t it happen? because those who make the rules think that without rules to cover every possible eventuality people will start `getting away with something`

[MunkeyBoy]

So far no-one has blamed anyone, although you seem determined that they should.

 

It depends on what you mean by abuse. But for example, I believe in an egalitarian use of the system where everyone gets a fair crack of the facilities. What you are suggesting is that you should be able to buy a chunk of canal bank for your own private use as a long term mooring, depriving everyone else of it. How fair is that? Of course, like all these things, it doesn't matter if a few folk do this (and we do of course have official long term moorings where this happens) but once everyone jumps onto the bandwagon it proliferates into wall to wall immobile moored boats anywhere within reach of a good job, so folk using the canals for the purpose they were intended (as a transport system) not only have to pass endless moored boats, but also can't find anywhere to stop for lunch/ go to the shops/ stop for a couple of days to explore the local area.

 

The bottom line is that what you want to do directly conflicts with what I want to do.

Very interesting perspective.

 

Do me a favour just quickly quote me where I made the statement that ''I should be able to buy a chunk of canal bank for your own private use as a long term mooring, depriving everyone else of it''

 

You have created a false reality to the extent you are suggesting whole sentences of words that I have not even said!!

 

How is someone moored up in a 60 foot boat (for example) going to deprive you of what you need unless on that 1 mile stretch you want to moor in exactly the same space but while you claim to be egalitarian that wont be a problem for you ?

 

Why are there endless boats in an area? because they are bad people or because the current system is creating that problem by not providing enough moorings?

 

What are you being deprived of exactly as you have chosen your home mooring and made ''your'' choice but want to make someone else ''wrong'' because their choice is not the same as yours?

 

Perhaps you are depriving them of the mooring they want but because the current system is not egalitarian they cant get that mooring so need more choice!

A boat licence should be just that, So far as I know there is no requirement to have a mooring in France, Belgium, Holland or Germany to get a licence and the world has not ended. It is the link between the two things that cause so many problems and difficulties. Most people will continue to moor in marinas or whatever they do now and if you want to moor for a week in a town with water and electric provided then pay a few pounds, if you want to tie in the country then so be it. There would be less licence evasion and less animosity between boaters. Why won`t it happen? because those who make the rules think that without rules to cover every possible eventuality people will start `getting away with something`

Fear based social conditioning is another term for it.

Hes getting more than me so hes bad ect ect.

Edited March 2, 2014 by MunkeyBoy

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

How is someone moored up in a 60 foot boat (for example) going to deprive you of what you need unless on that 1 mile stretch you want to moor in exactly the same space but while you claim to be egalitarian that wont be a problem for you ?

 

 

 

 

 

Is your proposal that there would only be allowed 1 boat per mile - how would that be 'policed' ?

 

I think your original comment about the 'unlimited' mooring and what Nick was referring to was the fact that with no time limits, the tow path would soon become a linear housing estate. Its inconvenient enough to have miles of boats 'offficially' moored along the Shroppie and parts of the T&M - slowing to tick over is often not enough for them as their boats bang and clatter.

[Naughty Cal]

 

Why put a negative perspective on things?

Are you assuming someone is doing something wrong because they have different requirements to you?

Some people dont want a home mooring as they live on their boat as they travel around but want to stay longer than two weeks some where does that make them a bad boater just because the current license cannot provide those allowances?

Marinas offer visitor moorings for just that purpose.

[churchward]

 

So lets find the solution rather than blame and assume people intend to abuse a system that opens itself to abuse by limited thinking.

Do you think not having a home mooring and wanting to pay extra if wanting to overstay longer?

Someone with those requirements is someone looking for a reasonable insulation not someone looking to abuse a failing system.

I think Magictimes idea is great.

The solution to wanting to stay longer than 14 days is buy a mooring. There are marinas that offer moorings on a daily, weekly and monthly basis.

 

the licence system as it stands is adequate so are the rules about staying somewhere for no more than 14 days.

 

Personally I see no reason to have another flavour of licence and don't support a change. We do not need more complication in the question of who can stay where and for how long or indeed how this can be monitored and when necessary enforced.

Edited March 2, 2014 by churchward

[jelunga]

 

Why put a negative perspective on things?

Are you assuming someone is doing something wrong because they have different requirements to you?

Some people dont want a home mooring as they live on their boat as they travel around but want to stay longer than two weeks some where does that make them a bad boater just because the current license cannot provide those allowances?

If they do not want a home moiring then theg aught to abide by the CC Rules. If they want to legally stay in the same place for longer than two weeks they have to either stay in a marina on a visitor mooring or move on. There is no other option within the rules.

Marinas offer visitor moorings for just that purpose.

Beaten by NC again.

[john6767]

As things stand you can stay in one place for up to 14 days for free, which seems a reasonable length of time to me. If you want to stay in one place for longer then you can pay a marina for the length of time that you want to stay there, again that seems to work well and is reasonable.

 

What is missing possibly is that CRT do not offer pre booked towpath moorings for periods longer then 14 days, and I can't see any reason why that could not happen in certain locations. I know that the general objective to to reduce online long term moorings so this does go against this a bit, but in limited numbers I think many would find short term unserviced towpath (or even offside if that was available) mooring a useful alternative to using a marina. Clearly the marina operators would not like that as it would be competition that would be a bit unfair as it would not doubt be able to undercut them.

[Naughty Cal]

As things stand you can stay in one place for up to 14 days for free, which seems a reasonable length of time to me. If you want to stay in one place for longer then you can pay a marina for the length of time that you want to stay there, again that seems to work well and is reasonable.

 

What is missing possibly is that CRT do not offer pre booked towpath moorings for periods longer then 14 days, and I can't see any reason why that could not happen in certain locations. I know that the general objective to to reduce online long term moorings so this does go against this a bit, but in limited numbers I think many would find short term unserviced towpath (or even offside if that was available) mooring a useful alternative to using a marina. Clearly the marina operators would not like that as it would be competition that would be a bit unfair as it would not doubt be able to undercut them.

CRT has recently started offering short term, upto three month, moorings at some of its sites.

 

Availability on their auction website.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

As I've said,I do think there is room for more categorys or choice regarding licencing, But the dangers are having to much choice, like going into Starbucks and asking for a coffee.

[Naughty Cal]

As I've said,I do think there is room for more categorys or choice regarding licencing, But the dangers are having to much choice, like going into Starbucks and asking for a coffee.

The choices are fine as it stands.

 

Have a mooring or don't have a mooring. How much simpler does it have to be?

[Ssscrudddy]

And if they made all moorings 'Non Returnable for 38days'

This would seriously mess up those with home moorings though, meaning basically you wouldnt be allowed out of your marina for 38 days if eg you was a weekend boater that can only get to the same place every weekend

[john6767]

CRT has recently started offering short term, upto three month, moorings at some of its sites.

 

Availability on their auction website.

OK, then that sounds to go some way towards that. I wonder why only 3 months though, why not by the month?

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

The choices are fine as it stands.

 

Have a mooring or don't have a mooring. How much simpler does it have to be?

Hi ya NC,

Yes, I thought it was that simple, until looking at some of the posts on this forum over the last few mths ,I outlined my interpretation in my posts 4 & 22 this thread. & together with what others including you are saying ref 3 months Mooring , long term Mooring, Winter Moorings ect ect I just can't understand how someone can be a Licensed CCr for a year,,with a 6 months Winter Mooring !. So is there scope for a change or choice of License to cover this!.

I'm just trying to understand that's all,

Edited March 2, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[Naughty Cal]

This would seriously mess up those with home moorings though, meaning basically you wouldnt be allowed out of your marina for 38 days if eg you was a weekend boater that can only get to the same place every weekend

Would it?

 

The only mooring I could think of that would make difficult for us is Torksey when waiting for the tide onto the Trent.

 

But even then we could get around it by "wild" mooring just out of Torksey.

OK, then that sounds to go some way towards that. I wonder why only 3 months though, why not by the month?

It's up to 3 months. You can have 1 if you want!

Hi ya NC,

Yes, I thought it was that simple, until looking at some of the posts on this forum over the last few mths ,I outlined my interpretation in my post 4 this thread. & together with what others including you are saying ref 3 months Mooring , long term Mooring, Winter Moorings ect ect I just can't understand how someone can be a Licensed CCr for a year,,with a 6 months Winter Mooring !. So is there scope for a change or choice of License to cover this!.

I'm just trying to understand that's all,

No

[Paul C]

Hi ya NC,

Yes, I thought it was that simple, until looking at some of the posts on this forum over the last few mths ,I outlined my interpretation in my post 4 this thread. & together with what others including you are saying ref 3 months Mooring , long term Mooring, Winter Moorings ect ect I just can't understand how someone can be a Licensed CCr for a year,,with a 6 months Winter Mooring !. So is there scope for a change or choice of License to cover this!.

I'm just trying to understand that's all,

 

Unfortunately, post #4 is a bit of a muddle of incorrect interpretations of what actually occurs.

 

I just can't understand how someone can be a Licensed CCr for a year,,with a 6 months Winter Mooring !.

 

I'm not surprised your confused - the statement is basically wrong. Basically, if/when you take a winter mooring, or any other temporary or short term mooring (other than simply stopping by the towpath) it 'counts' as a home mooring for the purposes of the law; and since the term "continuous cruiser" is slang for a boat without a home mooring, ergo someone with a winter mooring thus cannot also be a CCer. They might be a CCer for part of the year and someone with a home mooring for another part of the year, though.

[luctor et emergo]

The choices are fine as it stands.

 

Have a mooring or don't have a mooring. How much simpler does it have to be?

 

edit as I got my moorings muddled..

Edited March 2, 2014 by luctor et emergo

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

 

Unfortunately, post #4 is a bit of a muddle of incorrect interpretations of what actually occurs.

 

 

I'm not surprised your confused - the statement is basically wrong. Basically, if/when you take a winter mooring, or any other temporary or short term mooring (other than simply stopping by the towpath) it 'counts' as a home mooring for the purposes of the law; and since the term "continuous cruiser" is slang for a boat without a home mooring, ergo someone with a winter mooring thus cannot also be a CCer. They might be a CCer for part of the year and someone with a home mooring for another part of the year, though.

Sorry,it's probably my bad grammar again,

But you have just reinforced the point I'm trying to make,I 100% agree

How can someone licence you as a CCr for 12 mth, if you as you say for the purpose of the law you Have a home mooring for 6 of those same 12 month's.and therefore don't CC

Obviously you don't need to answer that,I can often try the patients of a saint,I just can't get my head around it.

So my interpretations in post 4 & post 22 is wrong . What all of it?.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[Paul C]

 

How can someone licence you as a CCr for 12 mth, if ..................

 

The easy answer is (but its a bit of a cop-out), they don't licence you as a CCer. There is only one type of licence. However, there are 2 choices of mooring/cruising style. When you apply for the licence or its renewal, you're asked which one you fall into, and make a declaration. Since the licence lasts 12 months, but a mooring might not (and conversely, one's status as a CCer), then its possible to have a different status than when you took out the licence. In theory you're required to let CRT know this when you change, in practice nobody does and there's no mechanism to do it, or practical effect of it anyway.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Paul C

[john6767]

It's up to 3 months. You can have 1 if you want!

I can't see that you can have 1 month, having looked it is 3/6/9 months duration and starting on the 1st of the month. So not really flexible enough for what I was thinking. From the ones that I recognise, it seem to just be long term moorings that are vacant so not predictable either.

 

So for both of those reasons I don't think it provides an alternative to using a marina for short term mooring, which is what I was suggesting was a bit of a gap.

[Naughty Cal]

I can't see that you can have 1 month, having looked it is 3/6/9 months duration and starting on the 1st of the month. So not really flexible enough for what I was thinking. From the ones that I recognise, it seem to just be long term moorings that are vacant so not predictable either.

 

So for both of those reasons I don't think it provides an alternative to using a marina for short term mooring, which is what I was suggesting was a bit of a gap.

Look a bit harder.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

However, there are 2 choices of mooring/cruising style. ......

 

Now you are confusing things - what is the third mooring / cruising option ?

 

If you have 'a choice' you have an option between A or B,

 

If you have 'two choices' you have three variables so an option between A & B, A & C, or B&C

[john6767]

Look a bit harder.

Give me a clue?

 

I am looking here https://www.crtmoorings.com/short-term/

Edited March 2, 2014 by john6767

[Naughty Cal]

The website

 

The bit that says short term!

[MunkeyBoy]

 

 

Is your proposal that there would only be allowed 1 boat per mile - how would that be 'policed' ?

 

I think your original comment about the 'unlimited' mooring and what Nick was referring to was the fact that with no time limits, the tow path would soon become a linear housing estate. Its inconvenient enough to have miles of boats 'offficially' moored along the Shroppie and parts of the T&M - slowing to tick over is often not enough for them as their boats bang and clatter.

No Alan you mis understaood my post.

My proposal is to allow longer over staying on less congested stretches of canal for a reasonable extra fee for those who quiet rightly dont wish to use an expensive Marina (IF AVAILABLE ANYWAY) or have to settle for an unsuitable mooring (IF AVAILABLE ANYWAY)or there are simply not any moorings available but tens of miles of unused stetches of tow path being used for nothing but dog loos and cyclist!

Interestingly the naysayers focus on a minority of stretches of tow path where people are overstaying.

The bottom line is the current system dont work and its costing money to police and enforce when other options are possible.

Life evolves and changes!!

The website

 

The bit that says short term!

Or the hundreds of miles of empty bloody tow paths up and down the country!!!!!!!

[Naughty Cal]

No?