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Dispute at Pillings

andy the hammer

By andy the hammer
in General Boating

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tupperware Collaborator

tupperware

Posted
Posted

As a matter of interest, how exactly has the following info you request got to do with you? All I'm bothered about is my daughters grandmother's welfare, her money being sunk into marina that ain't paying there fees...but the director isn't bothered, he's sunning himself whilst the moorers ponder on the outcome, yes some have buried there heads in the sand because there part of the PL crew! rolleyes.gif

 

I apologise if you have interpreted my request as "poking my nose in" but I was only trying to understand which company, QMP or PLM, raised the invoice for the mooring charges. Like most others here, I have the greatest sympathy for your predicament and am only trying to help where I can.

 

My reason for requesting the information is as follows:

 

1. QMP, have failed to pay CRT under the terms of the NAA agreement signed some years ago between QMP and BW/CRT.

 

2. CRT have obtained an order in the high court requiring QMP to pay the outstanding sum, including costs, of some £185,000 and if this is not paid, CRT have announced their intention of preventing access into the marine from mid-April 2014.

 

3. QMP without, seemingly the means to pay, have entered liquidation and an insolvency practitioner has been appointed to manage the winding-up of the company.

 

4. CRT are an unsecured creditor in the liquidation of QMP and there probable that the liquidator will have no funds with which to settle the outstanding £185,000 in which case it is almost certain that CRT will sever the marina from the national network as they have stated they intend to do.

 

5 If CRT carry out their stated intent then boats moorer in the marina will lose the right to exit and enter at will and anyone whose mooring fees extend for a period beyond that date will cease to enjoy the expected benefits for which they have paid.

 

6. If the mooring fee has been paid to PLM, a company which is still actively trading, and CRT blockade the marina from mid-April then PLM will be unable to service the legitimate expectation of the moorers that they will have access to the national network in which case, such moorers may be well-advised to seek legal advice as to whether this curtailment represents a breach of contract.

 

I trust that this explains my thought process and why I am interested in who billed the mooring fees you have paid. QMP may be in liquidation but PLM are still trading and if your contract is with the latter then financial redress may still be possible.

It is from Companies House - I just need to load and share it but it will be tomorrow before I can get round to doing it.

 

Many thanks and I'll look forward to reading it. Do you also, by any chance, have a similar statement for the preceding financial period?

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RLWP Veteran II

RLWP

Posted
Posted

I would guess if someone takes the time to work out how to proceed and help otheres they would need information to do so.

And if they are not financially or emotionally involved, they are more likely to come up with something objective and useful

 

Richard

  • Greenie 1
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Pillingsmoorer Engager

Pillingsmoorer

Posted
Posted

When the weather gets better some moorers may leave PLM. At the berth holders meeting in Jan someone said they would make arrangements to move if they had no positive news by mid March.

that was the impression I got from the boaters meeting. No point paying twice if you are paying your moorings yearly. Or monthly really. I think another 4 weeks and boats will start to move out of here.
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boathunter Rising Star

boathunter

Posted
Posted

that was the impression I got from the boaters meeting. No point paying twice if you are paying your moorings yearly. Or monthly really. I think another 4 weeks and boats will start to move out of here.

And PL will win again. All those moorers going presumably with no intention of returning. PL keeps the fees and frees up berths to rent out again? Can this man ever loose?

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scrunch Collaborator

scrunch

Posted
Posted

While I fully understand the big main discussion on the legal aspect of the whole awful episode at the marina and the disgusting way people have been treated.

I really feel for the poor people that have paid a lot of money for what I presume they thought was living a dream, I do not know for sure but would think that there will be some people who cannot afford to lose that sort of money.

And also the people who have paid for moorings and if they want to use their boat may have to lose money to move out.

I see all the legal arguments on the whys and wherefores on the financial wrong doings, I wish I could offer these people some help but wondered if anyone could use there wisdom to offer some sort of help/advice.

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Alan de Enfield Veteran II

Alan de Enfield

Posted
Posted

............but wondered if anyone could use there wisdom to offer some sort of help/advice.

 

Whilst of no imediate financial help, i has been suggested (for the last 2 or 3 weeks) that the current moorers and residents should leave and find mooring elsewhere.

 

It is more than possible that the company Pillings Lock Marina (the Marina Operator) and its Director (Paul Lillie who was / is also the sole Director of QMP - the company that has gone 'bust') will remain as the Marina Operator so in fact the non-payments of bills, overcharging of electricity, charging Council Tax. and all the other shennigans are likely to continue.

 

It may be 'inconvenient; for school / work / family or whatever, but losing your hard earned money is just a wee bit inconvenient

 

The 'helpful' suggestion / advice is find somewhere else, even if its only a short term (6 month) mooring you can then see which way the wind is blowing.

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DeanS Veteran II

DeanS

Posted
Posted

alternatively, wait for the entrance to be chained off...and just stay put....without paying any mooring fees. PL cant charge people for mooring, if (under the original agreement they would be able to enter and leave their mooring onto CRT waters freely), since due to PL's actions, this has been revoked. He also cant chase people out, as (under the original agreement) the mooring point is already paid for. Some folk might just stay put, live inside the chained off marina quite happily, not paying CRT licences (no need to) and move at their discretion, when they decide to, and no sooner. For some boaters, it's actually a win. ?

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DeanS Veteran II

DeanS

Posted
Posted (edited)

If I was in those boaters situation, I would wait till I was forced to leave, and then I would cruise around the area, going to work etc, as best I could within the rules, until such time as a suitable mooring in another marina opened up. I wouldn't:

 

1. sever my social ties with friends I had made in the area.

2. incur additional travel costs (I have no more money because the marina took it)

3. Spend too much money on diesel (I have no more money because the marina took it)

4. give up my local job to be able to move on a continuous journey (I need the job as I have no more money because the marina took it).

5. move off my boat.

 

just saying.

 

Hope there's a water point and an elsan point in the area that can supply 300 boaters smile.png

 

ps..I am not condoning CM-ers, but in this instance I wouldn't blame them if they did.

Edited by DeanS
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Alan de Enfield Veteran II

Alan de Enfield

Posted
Posted

alternatively, wait for the entrance to be chained off...and just stay put....without paying any mooring fees. PL cant charge people for mooring, if (under the original agreement they would be able to enter and leave their mooring onto CRT waters freely), since due to PL's actions, this has been revoked.

 

Being Devils Advocate I raised this question about 100 pages ago.

 

Whilst it may be 'assumed' that your mooring fee gave access to the waterway, unless the mooring agreement actually stated that the fee was for 'rights to moor your boat and have unfettered access to the waterway' it could be argued that PL could take any non-paying moorers to court for non- payment.

 

The question that would need to be answered in court is "what could reasonably be expected in return for paying for a mooring"

Not really. No one wil lose their home if PLM is chained off!

 

And no one would lose their home if they paid their C&RT licence & / or moved in accordance with any declaration they have made.

 

And no one would lose their home if they are not happy with the terms & condiions at the marina of their choice - untie the ropes and move on.

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scrunch Collaborator

scrunch

Posted
Posted

Have I missed something or are people going to lose the thousands of pounds that they shelled out for resedential moorings (all right a carpark space) and it looks like they are going to lose it, if thats not losing your home tthen I dont know what is.

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Naughty Cal Veteran II

Naughty Cal

Posted
Posted

Have I missed something or are people going to lose the thousands of pounds that they shelled out for resedential moorings (all right a carpark space) and it looks like they are going to lose it, if thats not losing your home tthen I dont know what is.

Not really.

 

They can stay where they are they just won't have access to the canal!

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Naughty Cal Veteran II

Naughty Cal

Posted
Posted

Please tell me have people managed to sort out the thousands of pounds that they paid for their moorings then, I am not entirely stupid and dont need the obvious they can still head out of the marina

They still have their moorings and still will have after the marina is sealed off.

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Alan de Enfield Veteran II

Alan de Enfield

Posted
Posted

Have I missed something or are people going to lose the thousands of pounds that they shelled out for resedential moorings (all right a carpark space) and it looks like they are going to lose it, if thats not losing your home tthen I dont know what is.

 

Apparently despite some moorers being charged Council Tax, there are no moorings with Planning Permission for residential use, and when a resident moorer asked the local Council about it the Council knew nothing about the moorings and no council tax was being charged or paid.

 

The long term leases (well the one we were going to buy last year) were not sold as 'residential' they are simply a cheap way of getting a guaranteed mooring at well below 'market rate' and a cash injection for the Marina.

 

The lease varies but around £30,000 for a 30 year lease for a car park space with a 60 foot mooring "free".

Where else can you get a 'serviced Marina mooring' for a 60 foot boat for £1000 per year.

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Alan de Enfield Veteran II

Alan de Enfield

Posted
Posted

They still have their moorings and still will have after the marina is sealed off.

 

The ones who have paid he £1000's and leased the car park space / mooring look as if they will lose it after the liquidation is complete.

 

The IP has shown the Lease Holders as unsecured creditors, so when the compnay is wound up, the leases look as if they will be annulled and the 'lease-holders' will lose their money.

 

If thats the case then - YES they will lose their money.

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