Cotswold canal project

[Willber G]

I thought that tunnel looked familiar:

http://midsomermurders.org/sappertonloc.htm

 

Photo by Matt S. Hmm...

[Arducius]

all in all, a gorgeous stretch of canal, would be an asset indeed once complete, however, there are locals against the restoration.

Do you know why some locals are opposed to the restoration of the canal? I can't think of any big downsides to having a canal through an area. But there are a lot of advantages (potentially increased property prices, economic boost due to tourism, a canal to walk/cycle/boat along...). What are the disadvantages?

 

Or am I missing something obvious like how the canal will cut through someone's garden/house?

[bottle]

Some have taken the canal into their gardens and do not now want the canal taken back and the canal in the said gardens.

 

Some farmers also have a problem or will have if the canal is reinstated.

 

 

ps. very simplistic explanation, I beleive that some legalities are also involved.

Edited January 16, 2014 by bottle

[nicknorman]

Do you know why some locals are opposed to the restoration of the canal? I can't think of any big downsides to having a canal through an area. But there are a lot of advantages (potentially increased property prices, economic boost due to tourism, a canal to walk/cycle/boat along...). What are the disadvantages?

 

Or am I missing something obvious like how the canal will cut through someone's garden/house?

There was a TV programme about it a while ago (maybe on Waterworld?) Farmers were moaning about having their land split in two again, at least I think that is what they were saying in between shouting "Gerrofmoylarnd". Also of course some concerns about Gippo boaters with smoky stoves, noisy generators and junk on the towpath. They had probably been to the K&A to see what it could be like!

[PaulG]

There's a really good page about Sapperton Tunnel here

http://www.cotswoldcanals.net//sapperton-canal-tunnel.php

 

(This is just my opinion. I have no association with the site.)

[richardf]

I live very close to the Stroudwater - around 200m away (near The Ocean)

 

I quoted recently about the damage at Dudbridge locks - the gates only lasted about 3 weeks before the site flooded and massive damage was caused to the lock infrastructure - it was quite clear to me that this was due to a really poor design of the culvert underneath the adjacent main road - with no screen cleaner, the culvert may have been able to take the flow (debatable), but without one, it was always going to block up. I appreciate that it was after heavy rain, but the Frome has been nowhere near as high as it has been over the last few years (it comes up my garden, so I am well placed to comment). The rainfall on the day of the damage was less than half of that bad day in 2007 when everything went under - I hear talk of a 1in a 100 year rain scenario, but this was nowhere near that.

 

Lots of residents are against it as it costs them money in their council tax - its a large borough and many people who are simply not near enough to get the benefit. What benefit for instance does someone living in Wootton under Edge get from the canal?

 

I think with Stroud District Council in charge, there is a very poor chance that the canal will be restored properly.

 

A good example is the swing bridge at The Ocean - this project ran massively over time and (presumably budget) - SDC sat back and watched their contractors build the bridge at the wrong angle - meaning that any high sided vehicle would impact nearby property. The remedial works to this cock up took several months. In addition, they put the control mechanism on the non towpath side where there is no mooring (I know this is not unique, but it is inconvenient and they could have done it right). Probably worst of all, they allowed a mechanical/hydraulic system to open the bridge to be wrongly designed and constructed - to the point of being almost unusable. This was acknowledged and a better solution sought - but I understand that it has been recently signed off as being acceptable. Incredible!.

 

I should also mention the tunnel under the adjacent railway - I have some experience of tunnelling under Network Rail assets and can only say that the red tape and the massive delays may well scupper the whole thing. Network Rail are not interested in the canal - if they even allow it to be rebuilt, they will probably insist on managing the whole project themselves and will use their own contractor - but to get to this point may well take years and you can only guess at the price.

 

I think this project may be decades away, but sadly, I think that many parts of what have been done are simply not up to standard.

[IanM]

I live very close to the Stroudwater - around 200m away (near The Ocean)

 

I quoted recently about the damage at Dudbridge locks - the gates only lasted about 3 weeks before the site flooded and massive damage was caused to the lock infrastructure - it was quite clear to me that this was due to a really poor design of the culvert underneath the adjacent main road - with no screen cleaner, the culvert may have been able to take the flow (debatable), but without one, it was always going to block up. I appreciate that it was after heavy rain, but the Frome has been nowhere near as high as it has been over the last few years (it comes up my garden, so I am well placed to comment). The rainfall on the day of the damage was less than half of that bad day in 2007 when everything went under - I hear talk of a 1in a 100 year rain scenario, but this was nowhere near that.

 

The Environment Agency approved the design and was indeed signed off by them as essentially they canal is main river at this point. The design showed its weakness and that is being addressed. At no point was any property in danger of flooding. The section of wall collapsed not because of the design of the culvert or installation of the gates, but because ultimately of the construction of the lock in the 1770's. Had the construction been of more substantial material then the flooding wouldn't have caused any damage at all. It was basically very poor limestone blocks skimmed with brick. The restoration last year tied new brickwork into what was thought to be solid stonework. However it was the bit behind that which wasn't so solid. CRT have had their fair share of lock collapses in the past few years. If the 3m (out of over 20m) section of wall hadn't collapsed would you be quite as quick to critisise that section of the project?

 

Lots of residents are against it as it costs them money in their council tax - its a large borough and many people who are simply not near enough to get the benefit. What benefit for instance does someone living in Wootton under Edge get from the canal?

 

I think with Stroud District Council in charge, there is a very poor chance that the canal will be restored properly.

 

 

SDC stop being in charge at the end of the Lottery funded part of the project. They had to take up lead partner status after BW dropped out. I agree that at some points their management of things have been quite 'interesting' and a lot of CCT members I've spoken to will agree that too. The Ocean Swingbridge shouldn't have been as problematic as it has been and I imagine the reason it has been signed off is it is not worth pursuing and wasting money on legal discussions until it actually leads to a section of canal that goes somewhere.

 

 

I should also mention the tunnel under the adjacent railway - I have some experience of tunnelling under Network Rail assets and can only say that the red tape and the massive delays may well scupper the whole thing. Network Rail are not interested in the canal - if they even allow it to be rebuilt, they will probably insist on managing the whole project themselves and will use their own contractor - but to get to this point may well take years and you can only guess at the price.

 

Do you not think that this has all been thought about already? The Trust have been aware that the M5 and railway are the most important barriers to restoration of the Stroudwater for the entire time the trust have been in existence. Lead times and costs are very much known about.

 

I am very much aware that people are entitled to their opinions about the project but it is nowhere near being finished yet so maybe a little lee-way can be given with the criticism until it has been finished for a period of time and allowed to show its true benefits.

[richardf]

So what do you think is a likely price for tunnelling such a large diameter under rail track that is used 24hours a day by both fast and heavy goods traffic. If it's been thought of for years, I assume that the trust has a price for doing that work?

 

It will be a very challenging task for the tunnelling contractor, as from a technical perspective, the bore has already been partially backfilled at some point and a smaller diameter culvert installed - and if Network Rail see even a fraction of a millimetre of settlement to their track,the job will stop. (I know this from bitter experience!)

 

Is it possible to see what the different parts of the project have cost - but I bet that's difficult information to get hold of, even as a council tax payer? How much did the debacle at Ocean Bridge cost for instance?

 

But let's hope that things get better as the council go back to their proper job and stop pretending they know how to restore canals

[Richard Fairhurst]

So what do you think is a likely price for tunnelling such a large diameter under rail track that is used 24hours a day by both fast and heavy goods traffic. If it's been thought of for years, I assume that the trust has a price for doing that work?

 

I believe the intention is to tackle it when other major works are taking place on the railway. Given that Bristol-Bromsgrove is likely to be electrified within the next 10 years (IIRC this was actually proposed in the Great Western ITT) that's not an abstract possibility.

 

The Wotton-under-Edge argument is a bit silly. By the same argument, I should object to Oxfordshire County Council spending any money in (say) Henley-on-Thames because I'm not near enough to get the benefit. Surely what matters is whether SDC are fulfilling their obligations in Wotton, rather than saying "no-one else can ever have nice things".

 

Councils restoring canals is nothing new, of course - the Rochdale was largely done that way.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Richard Fairhurst

[IanM]

Tunnelling under the railway at The Ocean is estimated to cost somewhere around £1.5m - £1.8m and could potentially happen when the line is closed during May 2015.

 

Apologies for the quality of the picture but this is the crossing in question.

 

Edited January 16, 2014 by IanM

[churchward]

I hope it all goes well.

 

We need people with vision who can see through and past the nay-sayers and "you don't want to do it like that" brigade.

 

There are plenty of examples of canals that have been restored and now enjoyed as cruising waterways in the face of objection and those all too ready to tell anyone who will listen that it can't be done.

 

Personally I class those that are daft enough, brave enough, passionate, determined enough to get a canal restoration through as heroic and god bless 'em and all power to them, may their resolve never waiver.

Edited January 16, 2014 by churchward

[nebulae]

Regarding the railway crossing at the Ocean,I have heard some speculation that the origional bridge may still exist under the infilling?The reason Phase 1A finishes above Brimscombe Port is because of another railway crossing.One of the reasons why it has been possible to restore the section through Stroud is that much of the canal still belonged to the origional canal company. One of the reasons why the restoration of the railway bridge at the Ocean would be so desireable is that it would join two navigable sections of canal .The great tragedy is that Brimscombe Port was wiped out by development ,having survived many years after the closure of the Thames and Severn Canal.In its origional form it was arguably the finest canal port in the country.

[IanM]

Regarding the railway crossing at the Ocean,I have heard some speculation that the origional bridge may still exist under the infilling?The reason Phase 1A finishes above Brimscombe Port is because of another railway crossing.One of the reasons why it has been possible to restore the section through Stroud is that much of the canal still belonged to the origional canal company. One of the reasons why the restoration of the railway bridge at the Ocean would be so desireable is that it would join two navigable sections of canal .The great tragedy is that Brimscombe Port was wiped out by development ,having survived many years after the closure of the Thames and Severn Canal.In its origional form it was arguably the finest canal port in the country.

Unfortunately it was confirmed several years back that the bridge deck was removed at the Ocean crossing when the infilling took place.

 

In regard to the ownership, it's true that the orignal canal company do still own the Stroudwater Navigation. The Thames & Severn canal was owned by Gloucestershire County Council around the start of the 20th century and they do still own quite a bit of the canal through Stroud and beyond. Obviously this has helped as the GCC and Stroudwater sections have been leased to the Stroud Valleys Canal Company.