Electric motor for prop

[Dave Simms]

Hello all, very new here and only 2months owning a beautiful Nb,just as a matter of interest and not to upset any of you trad fuel heads,but does anyone know anything about electric motors for propulsion,out put enough to move a 60' steel hull,(and ) info on solar and batts to keep it running, i have found a couple of links online but not enough to get my juices running,anyone using this type of thing or know anyone fitting it any info greatly accepted,ive searched back in forum cant see any,and whilst there did see alot of amazing advice from boaters and i must say some of you are mad and if i ever meet you i want to buy you a pint,keep up the great community forum,yes im still wet behind my ears,but thats because it rains so much here

[Ex- Member]

Hi Dave welcome to the forum.

 

Didn't realise you had gone up to Stratford. How's your batteries and charging issues? And how are you getting on generally.

[PhilR]

Electric propulsion is great for sub 30 foot day boats with a mains supply at base mooring, but for serious boating with a 60 footer I would suggest the battery and charging technology isn't yet available at a sensible price.

[Leo No2]

There's an electric trip boat on the Wey and Arun - Wiggonholt - (http://www.weyandarun.co.uk/tripboats/index.php) looked after, I understand, by Hamsterfan of this parish. I am sure he will be along to tell you all about it before long.

 

ETA - Basingstoke Canal Society did look briefly at a hybrid set up with a Beta engine and ancillaries - please see http://www.hybrid-marine.co.uk - but we came to conclusion that it did not give the benefits that we could justify mainly on cost to the committee at the time.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Leo No2

[RLWP]

You are likely to be developing this from scratch I'm afraid. The motor and controls are available, and you could probably buy enough batteries

 

Where you will come unstuck is in driving it all by solar. The only all electric boats I know of either use something exotic like hydrogen fuel cells, or recharge from the mains overnight. I don't believe that it is possible to generate enough from solar - yet

 

Richard

[Southern Star]

You could use an electric motor for propulsion, powered by a battery set but you certainly couldn't use solar panels to keep the battery set topped up. Think in terms of a milk float, capable of pottering about for six hours providing it spends the next eighteen hours on mains charge.

[Ex- Member]

There are some solar powered boats around, I've seen one in Bristol, how it got on is another thing, not heard much since seeing it.

 

Just spotted this one though.

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Solar-Powered-Narrowboat-Electric-Solar-Boat-Superb-/120929321806

 

ETA the boat in Bristol I recall had 2kw of solar panels and think was all electric, the owners were CC'rs as well I recall. I think the moored in winter and cruised in summer, or that was the intention anyway. Big boat too I recall.

 

There's the solar boat company also. It's doable if as an owner you're prepared to work with the weather available. Cruising daily though wouldn't be an option though I would think.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Julynian

[FadeToScarlet]

I spent a lot of time yesterday at a party talking with several engineer type people, one of whom has an electric boat.

 

I would be very inclined to go for a 240ve industrial motor to drive the prop. There's several reasons- they're cheap, reliable, and able to be serviced by many engineers everywhere, compared to the specialised Lynch type DC motors. The control gear is comparatively cheap, too, compared to DC systems- there are several companies where you can say to them "build me a controller for a motor of Xkw, there'll be 48v DC coming in from a battery bank, and I need 240v AC out of it for the motor" and they'll do it.

 

I'd fit an integral diesel generator, too, powerful enough to power the motor directly, as well as solar, so I could cruise for as long as I wanted.

 

 

 

Some links- 24v Lynch DC motor, 880w of solar, enough for an afternoon's summer cruising- http://solarpowerednarrowboat.blogspot.co.uk

 

72v SEM motor, on board generator- http://worcesternb.blogspot.co.uk

Edited January 5, 2014 by FadeToScarlet

[Phil Ambrose]

The Broads Authority run a solar powered boat at Barton Broad, called "Ra" it is a trip boat a sort of ali raft sitting on 2 ali pontoons. The BA also run a trip boat "Helen of Ranworth" from Ranworth Broad a pal of mine skippered her at one time. Also the Norfolk Yacht Co had a trading Wherry The White Moth which when not under sail used to have a 1.8 BMC but changed to electric propulsion via a large BB which was topped up on demand by a diesel genny. A number of electric dayboats work out of Wroham but they charge up overnight from mains.

From what I have seen it is possible to run on leccy but you would need a diesel genny to run on demand.

Phil

[The Pipe]

 

 

ETA the boat in Bristol I recall had 2kw of solar panels and think was all electric, the owners were CC'rs as well I recall. I think the moored in winter and cruised in summer, or that was the intention anyway. Big boat too I recall.

 

There's the solar boat company also. It's doable if as an owner you're prepared to work with the weather available. Cruising daily though wouldn't be an option though I would think.

Perfect excuse for not moving "it's cloudy".

[Biggles]

I would be very inclined to go for a 240v three phase industrial motor to

drive the prop.

 

240v 3 phase?

[FadeToScarlet]

240v 3 phase?

That was mentioned, but, thinking about it, why would you?

 

Edited.

[The Pipe]

The electric motors I've seen have all been 380 or 440 volt 3 phase on smaller craft (20 to 100 ton)

[FadeToScarlet]

There was a narrowboat that converted to a 240v industrial motor from eBay, I'm just trying to find it now.

[johnmck]

Think Debdale Wharf built one a few years ago, called "Timewarp".

 

Edited to make sense, another outage?

Edited January 5, 2014 by johnmck

[Southern Star]

You'd need a 10 kilowatt electric motor to replace a 15 horsepower diesel engine. And you couldn't run a 10 kilowatt motor using 2 kilowatts of solar energy.

[FadeToScarlet]

Think one a Debdale Wharf built one a few years ago, called "Timewarp".

Yes, that's the one.

[RLWP]

You'd need a 10 kilowatt electric motor to replace a 15 horsepower diesel engine. And you couldn't run a 10 kilowatt motor using 2 kilowatts of solar energy.

This is the crux of the problem. And that's without considering power for lights, computers and stuff. You can at least do cooking and hot water with gas

 

Richard

[Dave Simms]

Hi Dave welcome to the forum.

 

Didn't realise you had gone up to Stratford. How's your batteries and charging issues? And how are you getting on generally.

 

Hello,wow thats cool you saw my post,i work in stratford,cats is still down near you,im in latvia at the mo,back next week, getting on well,batts all sorted and other issues underway,i'll give you a shout when we back,hopefully moving on get ready for spring,anyway catch you later,thanks for connecting

Cheers all,some great views there,which i'll get my head into tomorrow,

[Chalky]

I did a lot of work about 3 years ago looking at electric traction for vehicles as part of a government funded project.

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/wmg/mediacentre/wmgnews/lcvtplaunchannouncement/

 

I was looking at the batteries, motors, inverters (and other power electronics) and the overall architecture of the traction system. Electric traction has it's place, narrow boats isn't one of them. The overall system efficiency doesn't suit a boat - most of the power in a car is recovered during braking, something that can't happen in a boat. There are also issues related to the energy conversion and storage that don't help. For a narrowboat store your energy as diesel and use the engine as a combined heat and power system to get the best efficiency - traction, electrical generation and also water and space heating.

If you do decide to go this way try to keep the voltage below 60V since you'll avoid loads of issues with regs and safety. Look for a permanent magnet motor.

[Ex- Member]

You'd need a 10 kilowatt electric motor to replace a 15 horsepower diesel engine. And you couldn't run a 10 kilowatt motor using 2 kilowatts of solar energy.

 

Is that as reliable as your stance on Honda 12v generator charger output

[Southern Star]

I'm all in favour of solar power, I fantasise about fixing solar panels to the roof of my trailer, barreling down the motorway at 56 mph and eliminating my £5,000 per month diesel bill but deep in my heart of hearts, I know it ain't ever going to happen.

[the grinch]

There's an electric trip boat on the Wey and Arun - Wiggonholt - (http://www.weyandarun.co.uk/tripboats/index.php) looked after, I understand, by Hamsterfan of this parish. I am sure he will be along to tell you all about it before long.

sorry on just seen this.

Yes we do have wiggonholt our electric wide beam tripper she is 10ft wide and about 60ft in length, although not my responsibility to maintain I do skipper duties on her

average battery drain is between 60 and 85% on an average day

the boat usually does a couple of short runs 50 mins each trip and then a 3 hour trip on a Saturday the battery is on average at 25% at the end of it. average power draw is around 90 amp whilst cruising but in shallow water like we have at birch copse that will go up to 120 - 140 due to the resistance of width and depth

 

if we run a charter before the public trips then we can put her on charge between trips but only gain about 8% per charge

if your really interested then come down and have a look when she's doing trips (Easter - Oct + Halloween and Santa cruises)

[Ex- Member]

I'm all in favour of solar power, I fantasise about fixing solar panels to the roof of my trailer, barreling down the motorway at 56 mph and eliminating my £5,000 per month diesel bill but deep in my heart of hearts, I know it ain't ever going to happen.

 

Strange! thought we were talking about boats

[FadeToScarlet]

I did a lot of work about 3 years ago looking at electric traction for vehicles as part of a government funded project.

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/wmg/mediacentre/wmgnews/lcvtplaunchannouncement/

 

I was looking at the batteries, motors, inverters (and other power electronics) and the overall architecture of the traction system. Electric traction has it's place, narrow boats isn't one of them. The overall system efficiency doesn't suit a boat - most of the power in a car is recovered during braking, something that can't happen in a boat. There are also issues related to the energy conversion and storage that don't help. For a narrowboat store your energy as diesel and use the engine as a combined heat and power system to get the best efficiency - traction, electrical generation and also water and space heating.

If you do decide to go this way try to keep the voltage below 60V since you'll avoid loads of issues with regs and safety. Look for a permanent magnet motor.

 

I'd argue that a narrowboat is far more suitable for electric propulsion than a car- you have all the torque available instantly at the prop, and far less inertia so you can go far more swiftly from ahead to astern, plus you have the space to install motors, batteries, control gear, etc., and weight is far less of an issue.

 

Using a small Diesel engine for CHP makes a lot of sense- a calorifier and radiators running off of the generator engine cooling, and a massive battery bank so you can use 240v versions of domestic appliances, lights, tools, etc, whilst moored up, charging from the inbuilt genny if required.

Edited January 5, 2014 by FadeToScarlet